Benzos Using nootropics and supplements to potentiate GABA drugs

[placebonaut]

I've been doing a bit of research on nootropics and supplements that might potentiate GABA drugs.

Wonder if anyone had any experience here? I think there's plenty of discussions on Kava and Phenibut with other GABA drugs, but I'm looking for things that might have low psychoactive effects themselves (and therefore be legal in the UK), but which might drive more impact on other GABA drugs e.g. benzos and pregabalin.

Have taken Valerian myself and find it pretty rubbish to be honest, at best it helps me a tiny bit with anxiety the day after a mild stim session, passionflower and camomile does seem to help with my sleep but all 3 are very far from anything that's recreational to me.

I'm going to order some honokiol and give that a try alongside valerian & passionflower titrated up at different doses to see if it has any upside with my favorite Pregabalin + Diazepam + Cannabis combo.

EDIT: bit more research and things like grapefruit have lots of studies, key concerns is variability in effect given substance build up in the blood.

for those of you who are dependent just a warning that from what I've read using other things to potentiate GABA drugs doesn't help your taper - I guess that's especially key for people who want to taper benzo/alcohol safely.

for me maybe a better angle is to think about using something to swap out diazepam or pregab, hmm 1 to think about

 

[TheLightBringer]

As far as supplements go idk how much can really be done with regular stuff, id like to think taking high doses of picamilon or similar GABA prodrugs that pass the BBB would have a synergistic effect with GABA PAMs like benzodiazepines.

Maybe adding Picamilon + a GABA reputake inhibitor like tiagabine and a GABA-AminoTransferase inhibitor like Vigabatrin to prevent its breakdown and then dosing a GABA PAM would allow all that increased GABA circulating in the brain to do its thing. No clue what new sides and dangers would arise from this though…

Also only one of these would qualify as a supplement/nootropic, the 2 others are medications

 

[cnnka]

I mix OTC with my benzos Hydroxyzine specifically dis a pretty nice job make the benzo more hypnotic.
Orphenadrine gives a nice boost in muscle relax and boost sedation.

 

[placebonaut]

As far as supplements go idk how much can really be done with regular stuff, id like to think taking high doses of picamilon or similar GABA prodrugs that pass the BBB would have a synergistic effect with GABA PAMs like benzodiazepines.

Maybe adding Picamilon + a GABA reputake inhibitor like tiagabine and a GABA-AminoTransferase inhibitor like Vigabatrin to prevent its breakdown and then dosing a GABA PAM would allow all that increased GABA circulating in the brain to do its thing. No clue what new sides and dangers would arise from this though…

Also only one of these would qualify as a supplement/nootropic, the 2 others are medications

thanks, have had a quick look at these and yes think the issue is obtaining them in the UK as they are either classified as psychoactive and therefore banned, or are prescription only.

I mix OTC with my benzos Hydroxyzine specifically dis a pretty nice job make the benzo more hypnotic.
Orphenadrine gives a nice boost in muscle relax and boost sedation.

OTC will work but very painful to get in the UK, cost isn't great either

 

[Allylbenzene]

...have had a quick look at these and yes think the issue is obtaining them in the UK

As far as supplements go idk how much can really be done with regular stuff

There are dozens of working GABAergic/pro-GABA items that you can get in the UK. They're not considered drugs under the NPS blanket ban. They're also more sustainable and imo better than phenibut.

Magnolol is as valuable as Honokiol so try to find an extract with both, they're cannabinoid GABAergics. Agmatine has some pro-GABA effects but it's a very good for potentiation of other sedatives (it's also an alpha-2 adrenergic agonist). Low doses of muscimol (GABAergic) are very synergistic with Kava (the kavalactone extract paste is suitable).

CBD is good but blocks CB1. CBG has some advantages as it's an alpha-2 adrenergic agonist which boosts endogenous opioids/GABA. A 2:1 CBG:CBD mix is comparable to THC, especially if you add a few psychoactive terpenoids (terpenes).

Alpha-2 adrenergic agonists are able to produce sedation, analgesia, euphoric effects and partially block acute withdrawal symptoms in chronic opioid users.
...
Adding an α2-adrenergic to a sedation regimen reduces opioid requirement by 50–75% and benzodiazepine requirement by upwards of 80%.
https://doi.org/10.2344/0003-3006-62.1.31

Theanine, Taurine and Nicotinamide are all worthwhile. Theanine works via multiple angles, not just directly at GABA. Btw keep the nicotinamide doses on the low end since it has pro-metabolic enhancing effects. Nicotinamide is an "endogenous benzodiazepine" but it's got other indirect pro-GABA effects.

Magnesium malate is the one I'd recommend since glycinate can have anti-GABA effects (as an NMDA co-agonist). Every GABA stack should have some magnesium imo.

Phytol is essentially a GABA reputake inhibitor via SSDH inhibition, it's also possibly directly GABAergic. Other GABAergic terpenoids include nerolidol, linalool (also dopaminergic, anti-glutamate, opioidergic, serotoninergic), borneol, bisabolol. There's other potent sedative terpenoids eg myrcene, beta-caryophyllene.

Imo a combo of these things will easily outperform pregabalin + diazepam. The CBD/CBG combo makes THC more effective too.

 

[cnnka]

What about dry Amanita low dosages ?

 

[placebonaut]

There are dozens of working GABAergic/pro-GABA items that you can get in the UK. They're not considered drugs under the NPS blanket ban. They're also more sustainable and imo better than phenibut.

so much info here thanks for taking the time to write it out!

Magnolol is as valuable as Honokiol so try to find an extract with both, they're cannabinoid GABAergics. Agmatine has some pro-GABA effects but it's a very good for potentiation of other sedatives (it's also an alpha-2 adrenergic agonist). Low doses of muscimol (GABAergic) are very synergistic with Kava (the kavalactone extract paste is suitable).

CBD is good but blocks CB1. CBG has some advantages as it's an alpha-2 adrenergic agonist which boosts endogenous opioids/GABA. A 2:1 CBG:CBD mix is comparable to THC, especially if you add a few psychoactive terpenoids (terpenes).

Theanine, Taurine and Nicotinamide are all worthwhile. Theanine works via multiple angles, not just directly at GABA. Btw keep the nicotinamide doses on the low end since it has pro-metabolic enhancing effects. Nicotinamide is an "endogenous benzodiazepine" but it's got other indirect pro-GABA effects.

Magnesium malate is the one I'd recommend since glycinate can have anti-GABA effects (as an NMDA co-agonist). Every GABA stack should have some magnesium imo.

Phytol is essentially a GABA reputake inhibitor via SSDH inhibition, it's also possibly directly GABAergic. Other GABAergic terpenoids include nerolidol, linalool (also dopaminergic, anti-glutamate, opioidergic, serotoninergic), borneol, bisabolol. There's other potent sedative terpenoids eg myrcene, beta-caryophyllene.

going to check all these out, lots of research and experimentation to do here, gold mine of info!

Have ordered magonlia bark which has both magnolol and honokiol already, looking at Theanine, Taurine and Magnesium as well - any suggestions on dosage at all? not quite sure what sort of range to consider.

had a look at CBG, it's bloody expensive in the UK!

will have to look into the others in a bit more detail and figure out what else to get.

Imo a combo of these things will easily outperform pregabalin + diazepam. The CBD/CBG combo makes THC more effective too.

This is a really interesting statement, when you say out perform can you explain in a bit more detail what you mean please, what effects can I expect to see and how will it compare against pregab and diazepam - I love this combo, if I can improve on it I will be a very very happy person!

What about dry Amanita low dosages ?

hmm, not something that I'd even thought about, although it's not a classic psychedelic it's still psychoactive and therefore banned in the UK, but seems to be for sale "not for human consumption". Would need to be low dose, could be an interesting addition later down the road.

 

[cnnka]

A friend of mine sell amanitas and muscimol isolate. In high dosages is a delirium but told me at low dosages it acts like a benzodiazepines I have a lot that he gifted me but hasn’t tried yet because I’m sensitive to psychedelics and don’t wanna risk it

 

[Allylbenzene]

Theanine, Taurine and Magnesium as well - any suggestions on dosage at all? not quite sure what sort of range to consider.

Generally with new items you'd start reasonably low and slowly increment the dose so you can acclimatise.

• Theanine from 100mg+
• Magnesium (imo malate form is best, not the glycinate form) from 200mg+
• Taurine from 100mg+. Taurine has other therapeutic benefits which makes it more important to start low. The same for niacinamide aka vitamin B3 (50mg+). Niacinamide probably sounds inactive but it's not.

had a look at CBG, it's bloody expensive in the UK!

CBG isolate should be pretty cheap, around £5-10/gram? CBD is even less, around £3/g. You can always turn it into THC if you run out of regular herb.

Imo a combo of these things will easily outperform pregabalin + diazepam. The CBD/CBG combo makes THC more effective too.

This is a really interesting statement, when you say out perform can you explain in a bit more detail what you mean please, what effects can I expect to see and how will it compare against pregab and diazepam - I love this combo, if I can improve on it I will be a very very happy person!

By outperform I mean that the combination of items I mentioned (when used in appropriate doses) will be more therapeutically effective than pregabalin + diazepam.

They can be used long-term without risking withdrawal issues or side-effects. They're also OTC and many provide long-term benefits like repairing the dopamine system (something which pregabalin, diazepam and phenibut don't do).

 

[placebonaut]

Generally with new items you'd start reasonably low and slowly increment the dose so you can acclimatise.

• Theanine from 100mg+
• Magnesium (imo malate form is best, not the glycinate form) from 200mg+
• Taurine from 100mg+. Taurine has other therapeutic benefits which makes it more important to start low. The same for niacinamide aka vitamin B3 (50mg+). Niacinamide probably sounds inactive but it's not.


CBG isolate should be pretty cheap, around £5-10/gram? CBD is even less, around £3/g. You can always turn it into THC if you run out of regular herb.


By outperform I mean that the combination of items I mentioned (when used in appropriate doses) will be more therapeutically effective than pregabalin + diazepam.

They can be used long-term without risking withdrawal issues or side-effects. They're also OTC and many provide long-term benefits like repairing the dopamine system (something which pregabalin, diazepam and phenibut don't do).

thanks for all the advice, will give it a try.

will have to look harder for CBG, have only found extracts so far

 

[placebonaut]

bit of an update, I've been playing around with a few of these nootropics to help potentiate a range of GABA drugs including:- Diazepam, Xanax, Soma and pregabalin, all of these in various comobs

I've pretty much given up using Valerian root, Passionflower, and Chamomile because they all just tend to increase sedation which isn't really what I prefer.

I'm having the best success so far with Taurine at 1000mg, it's not sedating and brings some calming and muscle relaxation as well, while at the same time potentiation.

Going to focus more on this and try to understand interactions better.

Only tried it a couple of times but so far there seems to be some upside for me with Soma once it's been metabolised to Meprobamate, which is interesting as there doesn't seem to be any research on there being potentiation here, though both effect GABA-A.

Cannabis of real help here as well!