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Harm Reduction using kava while on bupropion (wellbutrin)

H

hybridweb

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Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
14
Hey everyone! I've been looking all over the internet for answers to this question and can't find anything satisfactory, so I thought I'd try here. I hope ODD is a good spot for this, it didn't seem quite basic enough for BDD but not advanced enough for ADD either. I started taking bupropion SR about five days ago for mild/moderate depression, and it's been working well so far. I haven't been planning on using any other drugs with it because it interacts with so many things and lowers the seizure threshold, and i'm so not down to have a seizure. The one thing I have considered using with it so far is kava, although I haven't done that yet. Sometimes it's just nice to sip on some kava in the evening to chill a bit, and I would especially like to be able to do this since I just met a dude who holds kava ceremonies, and it's been a while since I've gotten to do that. I'm just concerned about the combination of bupriopion and kava because bupriopion is an NDRI and according to wikipedia, one of the kavalactones in kava is an MAO-B inhibitor. MAO-B is partially responsible for the breakdown of dopamine. To quote wikipedia:

"Desmethoxyyangonin, one of the six major kavalactones, is a reversible MAO-B inhibitor (Ki 280 nM)[23] and is able to increase dopamine levels in the nucleus accumbens. This finding might correspond to the slightly euphoric action of kava."

Additionally (again from wikipedia):

"Kavain, in both enantiomeric forms, inhibits the reuptake of noradrenalin at the transporter (NAT), but not of serotonin (SERT).[25] An elevated extracellular noradrenalin level in the brain may account for the reported enhancement of attention and focus."


Has anyone had experience using kava while on bupropion? And would using kava with bupropion lead to dangerously high levels of either dopamine or norepinephrine? Can you get something like serotonin syndrome but with dopamine or norepinephrine? I was thinking that this may be a safe combination because MAO-B preferentially degrades dopamine, but is only partially responsible for it: MAO-A also degrades dopamine, in addition to serotonin and norepinephrine. I'm especially curious to know if anyone else has experience using kava while on bupropion, I can't find any info about that on the internet elsewhere. Also, is there a chance that kava would lower the seizure threshold? It seems that it may act similarly to benzos or anticonvulsants according to wikipedia. Anyway, I may try a small dose of kava sometime soon to gauge it and work my way up slowly from there if nobody has any experience with this. I've just been really wary of using any other psychoactives while on bupropion since it does interact with so much. It would be nice to be able to use kava sometimes though, especially for occasional insomnia, which may be worsened by bupropion. Thanks yall!
 
You'll be fine. Perfectly safe for 99.99% of the population.
 
How do you two guys that say it's perfectly fine? Kava has stimulant alkaloids in it and you never know how that could interact with bupropion. At a high dose of kava you'll be guaranteed a fast heartbeat, and who knows what other cardiovascular symptoms could pop up?

I mean, I really highly doubt this is very dangerous but you guys have no data to make those claims and the fact that kava contains stimulant alkaloids means it IS more dangerous when taken with bupropion.
 
kava cauzes relaxing effects taking it with that antidepressant will not really cauze a problem.sumtimes u can be overly cautious.supplements containing kava ect. r taken with drugs like this antidepressant often.
 
true fresh kava root will fuck you up....the supplements, or even shipped root powder isn't near the same!

I don't know how it would effect you, and one of the ADD mods or someone else who understands the scientific mechanisms of how each of these type of drugs act would be able to give you an educated guess as to what combining them might do, but even that would be little more than speculation. I doubt there's anything concrete that involves the study of the interaction of these particular drugs.
 
theantiadult said:
kava cauzes relaxing effects taking it with that antidepressant will not really cauze a problem.sumtimes u can be overly cautious.supplements containing kava ect. r taken with drugs like this antidepressant often.
Click to expand...
You don't sound like you've ever taken kava. It's definitely stimulating in a proper dose.
 
i dont suggest combining the two because kava has alkaloids that increase NE and DA by affecting NET/DAT in some way.

bupropion makes me very agitated and jittery, more so than d-amp/l-amp does. amphetamines usually make me feel more normal and have less anxiety because i have ADD/ADHD, but not with bupropion (wellbutrin is a substituted cathinone meaning it techinically is of the amphetamine class). it is weird because you would think that bupropion would be less stimulating than amphetamines, but they actually make me MORE stimulated than aderall or d-amp without causing any euphoria. bupropion is an interesting drug having some interesting metabolites making experiences vary based on your enzyme levels; one metabolite being a local anesthetic. i get acute aggression and agitation and snap on people meaning i get very easily annoyed on bupropion, so anything that stimulates me while on bupropion is NOT a good feeling for me, it is very very unpleasant
 
DON'T MIX THEM. This is coming from someone who enjoys sucking on SR bupropion tablets to get a faster effect from time to time. Just today I mixed kava- about 4 eyedroppers full of the liquid extract-with my usual prescribed psych meds, Bupropion/Wellbutrin SR is one of them. I'm familiar with kava's effects. I'm familiar with bupropion's effects. But not the two combined. I got clammy palms, followed by mild uneasiness, followed by what felt like a stressed out heart coupled with mental tension. Very tense for a good hour or so complete with a little bit of upper left arm tingles. I took a dose of my Rx'd sedatives and aspirin and I feel relaxed and just fine again. So in a nutshell: I'd strongly advise AGAINST taking kava kava and bupropion on the same day. A lot of the fear and physical symptoms I had may have been psychosomatic, having known something about Kava's MAOI effect-however relatively weak it may be. Of all the drug interactions listed with kava on the drugs dot com site, bupropion was absent. So I gave it the guinea pig benefit of the doubt. I won't be doing that again.
 
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I know this is an old thread but it was the only real result that came up on a google search for "kava and wellbutrin" so i feel like i should probably add in my experience from yesterday in case anyone else stumbles upon this thread in the future with the same problems.


I'll have to agree with the poster above me, DO NOT TRY IT!

I've been taking Ritalin (ADD), Remeron (depression/sleep), and Metformin (diabetes) for a while now and know how they effect me, even with other stuff added to the mix (especially kava and caffeine). Just three days ago, wellbutrin got added to the mix when i went to a doctor for the relatively bad anxiety i've been having recently (not sure why they always offer me random depression medications for every symptom i come in with but oh well). I was a bit weary of the combo though when i looked up wellbutrin and it said it's also an off-label ADD med/stimulant but i asked the pharmacist and she told me i'd be fine and even went as far as to say not to let off on the ritalin because it can cause even worse symptoms if i do that, so i took her advice and just started taking the Wellbutrin (150mg XL) on top of my other meds. Worked well for the first two days, killed any remaining depression and gave me enough hyperfocus to clean the house, clean all my email inboxes, respond to all my emails, and do all the work i've been procrastinating for months in like 2 hours flat. The third day didn't go so well though. I'll make a quick timeline of how that day went.

0:00 (12:00PM/Noon) - Took the morning Wellbutrin as soon as i woke up.
2:00 - Had a really random 2-minute panic attack.
2:30 - Took my afternoon Ritalin.
4:00 - Drink 2 cans of Caffiene-filled diet soda not even thinking that it might be a bad idea and had a 10 minute panic attack that i got rid of with breathing techniques.
4:30 - Had another 10-minute panic attack and did the same thing.
4:45 - Decided to drink some Kava in cold water hoping to get rid of the anxiety.
5:00 - Kava starts working but now i'm feeling kinda sick and am feeling like my vision is taking a while to catch up with my surroundings as i move my eyes. Also, everything looks brighter and i'm told my eyes are really dilated.
5:30 - Can't stop talking! Feel super hyper but quite a bit calmer and euphoric, almost like how i'd imagine Cocaine feels although i haven't tried it so can't tell for sure. Basically feel like i could get so much work done in such a short amount of time. I am feeling quite sick at this point though so if that task involves running or excersise, count me out.
5:45 - Pretty sure i'm having Seretonin Syndrome at this point. Quite euphoric and focused but feel horrible at the same time. Sounds fun, but it isn't. Bet everyone else in the house (just a bunch of my friends) would look at me and think i'm having a good time but i'm not.
5:45 - Feeling almost like i'm in a dream and the world around me might not even be real life. Definite derealization although i've never experienced it before that night. Feels really weird and is making me think i might be turning into a schitzophrenic although i know that it's just the wellbutrin. Lasts for a whole 5.5 hours.
11:15 - Most of the effects have worn off but still have a sore throat and stomach ache. Watch some TV for the next 4 hours cause i can't fall asleep for some reason even though all of it should have been out of my system by now.

Next day - Most of it's worn off but still feeling different than i should be.

In all; the wellbutrin definitely had an interaction in there somewhere. I think with the Ritalin and Kava, but i'd be weary of even mixing it with the kava. You're correct in your hypothesis of it causing seretonin syndrome as it did happen to me (although i haven't got a doctor's opinion on that yet). Do not recommend!

I'm not going to take the Wellbutrin again and i'll probably quit with the Kava as well.
 
I have been on wellbutrin for about a month now, and for the past week i haven't been able to feel the effects of kava. I have taken the same dose that affected me prior to the WB and then some, no effect. I dont think its a coincidence.
 
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