Bupe Using heroin while on suboxone - also no precipitated withdrawal

[dopemegently]

That is very encouraging re your "brain change" experience. I was in a similar position to you (only I was on mega doses of dhc when contemplating bupe). I waited until I was sick as hell, and then I took my sub, and I have to say it was a good decision for me.

Funnily enough, that first bupe gave me a fairly strong body high, but of course dhc is a far, far weaker drug than heroin; I've heard of heroin addicts getting sick after beginning bupe, but I'm really no expert. The real brain change is knowing you're on bupe and that you can't get high, it just won't work; it really removes temptation from the equation. Also, it trains you to think "straight" you think normaly on bupe, without the intense euphoria of powerful opiates.

So, I wish you all the best slum survivor, getting on bupe could be a real good thing for you. Just don't take it too early; wait 'till you're in full-blown WD's.

 

[Slum Survivor]

ive been thru that already with mr S he helped me avoid PW's this time. ive been on bupe many times before. i had to wait about 40 hours after my last dope shot the last time. and i still felt weird for a few days on the bupe.

right now i have a pretty bad lower back injury and dont know what to do... ugh. makes me wanna go get a few bags and see if it helps. damn.

EDIT: to be clear im on bupe now... been on it for about 6 weeks now. about 6mg a day.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

ive been thru that already with mr S he helped me avoid PW's this time. ive been on bupe many times before. i had to wait about 40 hours after my last dope shot the last time. and i still felt weird for a few days on the bupe.

right now i have a pretty bad lower back injury and dont know what to do... ugh. makes me wanna go get a few bags and see if it helps. damn.

EDIT: to be clear im on bupe now... been on it for about 6 weeks now. about 6mg a day.

You ended up waiting 40 hours? Damn man that's a long time. I would be bed ridden and dying inside by then, but withdrawals have always hit me really fast.

 

[Slum Survivor]

yeah that time u asked me how i was doin? yeah i ended up waiting 40 hours before i tried any sub.


ugh im so freakin torn on what to do right now man. id hate to wake up tomorrow to take my sub as usual and it give me PW's at all.


edit: n/m i used a PM instead

 

[madagasqar]

I also have a slight problem. My withdrawal symptoms start way too late, after 35 hrs or so. I usualy , when i decide to get clean, take the last line of dope during the afternoon (round 6) and a dose of bupe around 1-2 pm. But now, WDs start too late and i haveto wat for so long, so finally i get domotivated and end up scoring H again. Ad i'm afraid to take bpe before due to precipitated WDs whats the reason? Am i taking too much? Is my organism capableof 'storing' heroin longer than usually? I would like to take m sub as sooner i can, when i take it i dont think that much about my addiction....

 

[dopemegently]

You must have a very slow metabolism....I think many addicts would consider the fact it takes you 35 hours to get sick a very good thing; but obviously not in this context ie taking your first dose of bupe.

The really annoying thing about bupe is that judging the correct time to begin is not an exact science; the conventional wisdom is to wait until you're in full-blown WD's. Is that because there is zero drug left in your bloodstream, or not quite enough to precip WD's?

Maybe you could invest in an accurate drug testing kit (I believe some are fairly cheap), and not take your Suboxone until you get a definite negative reading?
It obviously won't be a comfortable wait considering your metabolism, but I guess it's better safe than sorry when we're talking about precip WD's.

 

[Slum Survivor]

yeah dude some of us just keep the drug in our system longer....

my dumbass went and got high last night cuz my back was hurting me so bad. i didnt take my sub at all yesterday. normally its 4mg once a day. well i shot 3 bags and got higher than i expected to. that was around 8pm last night

so today i wake up and waited a few hours and started to feel like crap. so i figure, i better take my sub dose for the day. so i went and put 4mg under my tongue. about 5 mins into that i noticed i was starting to get PW's real fast. so i spit out the sub and vigorously scrubbed the remaining sub off of the bottom of my tongue. that was about 5 miins ago, its almost 2:30 here now. thats at least 18 hours after my shot last night... wtf.

what the hell happened? i thought since i had been stabilized on bupe the whole time and only skipped one day, that i would be fine to take my sub the day after i got high.

like Mr.S said... usually its okay just to go right back to the bupe/sub before the w/d fully sets in.
why am i getting PW from trying to take my subs? is it because i actually did get high??

 

[dopemegently]

Wow, I had no idea precip wd's could kick in so fast. I'm not sure exactly what happened there; considering your slow metabolism, I'd assume you still had enough dope in your system to cause it, but I really don't know much about this pwd business. (It sounds fucking nasty btw- do you still have them now)?

 

[Slum Survivor]

well the reason i spit it out was to avoid them getting any worse as i had only had the strip under my tongue for 5 mins or so. i had also put some vodka in my mouth along with it(to add to BA) too so im sure it made it absorb a bit faster.

i took 1 mg klonopin and had a hot shower after spitting out the sub. it helped, but now im in that wierd feeling phase. no severe w/d at the moment. in fact i was able to go visit some family friends and just got back. im surprised i was able to handle it.

now im not sure if i should just use some more and then wait until i fully w/d again to take any more sub. (thats if it would even work, since i did absorb at least some of the 4mg i had in my mouth, maybe 1mg of it tops?? considering BA with vodka) or if i should just wait a little bit(no idea how long) and try some more sub.

i cant believe it didnt go like Mr.s had said... i figured since i had been on subs for about 6 weeks, and only took one day off to get high that same night, that i would be able to take my sub as usual the next day, considering there should have been still been some bupe left in me.

maybe since i got so high last night (3 bags average dope all at once around 8 pm)that means that today there was still enough heroin binded to my receptors this morning/afternoon (around 2 pm) for the bupe to give me PW's ?

i mean it was 18 hours that i waited after the heroin to take my sub again... why the hell would the sub had wore off fast enough for me to get high, but the dope didnt wear off fast enough for me to take my sub again. wtf??

 

[dopemegently]

It really is fucking strange....I've always assumed that the more drug you consume in one go, the longer it takes your body to metabolise, so maybe that's something to do with it? And it sounds like you did quite a lot of dope so that could be it.

The weirdest thing is that you managed to get high while on bupe, though; is that the reason you used so much that night? (You def would've had bupe in your system still). Are you on a blocking dose of bupe btw?

Btw I'll have to try that alcohol ba trick of yours, it's really interesting it kicked in so fast that way.

 

[Slum Survivor]

here is the link for the Alcohol BA thing

i had been on about 6mg a day for 5 weeks straight. then i dropped down to 4mg a day using the vodka thing, for the last week after that. day before yesterday i took my normal 4mg w/ vodka. yesterday i skipped my dose, and at 8 pm(30 hours from last sub dose) i shot 3 bags of dope at once. now its today and i tried to take my sub about 5 hours ago and it started to give me PW in the 5 minutes it was in there so i spit it out.

now ive had nothing but klonopin to help get me thru the day and im wondering what i should do next.

should i wait until morning to take any more sub? or should i try a small amount more, like 2 mg, and see what happens. and just go up slowly like that.

 

[dopemegently]

Thanks for the link, I'll def be using the method. (While avoiding getting drunk lol)

When I first started taking sub, I was on a very short-acting opiate (high dose dhc) so I only had to wait five hours to dose bupe, and I was fine. What I'm saying is I have no experience or knowledge of taking it with a longer acting drug like heroin, so you need to speak to someone who really knows their shit.

Then again, as I posted earlier, one sure fire way of making sure would be to buy one of those disposable piss test strips (the plastic ones-I think they're cheap enough); get a definite negative for opiates, and I'd say you'd be good to go.

 

[Slum Survivor]

i just dont understand how im getting preciptated withdrawals when it had been a full 18 hours. heroin is not all that long acting. its considered one of the shorter ones really.

damnit man im going crazy, most folks can take a break, get high, and go back on their sub no problems. ive read all up and down the damn forum and megathreads all damn day.

i seem to be the only one who is getting PW's doing this. and even after 18 hours.

ive never had any issues with PW's all thru my life until getting on bupe again this last time about 6 weeks ago. wtf??

 

[Jellybeann]

Ive been on 16mg suboxone for 3 years, and I can inject .4 grams and feel it. Symptoms of overcoming naloxone in these doses will result in red spotting on face .

 

[dopemegently]

Really? When you say feel it, are we talking about full effects? 'Cause I'd say the ba of sub would make a full heroin high impossible (it hogs those receptors like a greedy pig lol)

I've known people on lower doses (around 2 mg) to get strong effects from full agonists. And it's strange: 200mgs of tramadol does the business for me, but then it's not your average opiate.

Slum Survivor, are you still feeling in full-blown opiate WD's btw? From what little I know precip wd's are supposed to be completely brutal, I mean hellish. What kind of symptoms are you feeling now; is it like your classic heroin withdrawals, or is it far more intense, like you can't even move?

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Ive been on 16mg suboxone for 3 years, and I can inject .4 grams and feel it. Symptoms of overcoming naloxone in these doses will result in red spotting on face .

The naloxone has nothing to do with it. It's the bupe that blocks opiates.. not the naloxone. It has a higher affinity rate than naloxone does, much higher actually.

 

[Ownage]

I know this thread is old but I want to input my experience. If you are dependent on opiates and switch to subs and becomes dependent on subs. If you dose your regular subs dose and do opiates right after, you can still feel the effects if you do enough! I have found that if you do that and keep dosing your subs, you won't ever go into PW! Now if you stop using subs and kept opiates and when you try to dose on subs, you will go into PW! This is from personal experience!! I don't know why but if you dose subs every 2 days between your opiate use, you can always dose your subs and not go into PW right after you run out of the opiates. However like I stated above, if you dose your subs and do your opiates and not dose your subs by 3rd day, you're playing with fire since subs will be completely out of your system and you'll be dependent on the opiate.

I am experimenting with PW. I found that if your opiate dependent and you dose subs way too early, you will more than likely will go into PW and only way to get out of PW is if you do a lot of opiates! So I was wondering if anyone has ever done the opiates to get out of PW and dose the subs again? That way the initial subs that put you into PW would have time to fill your receptors since you used full opiates to cure the PW but since subs is more attractive to your receptors, you really don't have full opiates on your receptors or am I wrong?

 

[subotai]

Everyone is capable of precipitated withdrawal. The OP used heroin once, and it was blocked by the suboxone, meaning it did not connect to the bodys opiate receptors. Therefore, taking more suboxone should not cause precipitated withdrawal, as there are no full agonist opiates attached to the receptors that the buprenorphine can kick off (causing precipitated withdrawal).

I didnt read past this but this answered OPs questions perfectly tbh. not sure what else there is to talk about

 

[Ownage]

Let me weigh in on an important information based off my experience! I believe tolerance has big role in this! This is somewhat true but is false. Keeping subs daily while using so you don't go into PW when you do switch back. I found this to be false at some point. When I was doing this, I found that if you do enough gear, it'll knock the subs off the receptors and make you dependent on the gear. That's where you find yourself in trouble! If you're taking 2mg each day but doing 2 grams a day, this method won't work as when you take subs the next day, it's going to put you in PW. It's flawed in that area! So if you do this method, you can't go beyond the subs ceiling effect tolerance or else you gonna be stuck full opiates. This is from my experience.

 

[Area57]

Does anyone know about what kind of tolerance you have to have for it to be more than the subs can help with?