Mental Health Using anti-psychotics as sleep aids...?

[JohnBoy2000]

I tried this.

Terrible response to seroquel, or perhaps just dopamine blockers in general.
I felt truly terrible on this shit.

I've become intolerant to basically any and every psychoactive drug there is.

So without drugs, I slept about 4 hours 45 minutes last night, then dozed for another 1.5 hours.

Which I'm absolutely thrilled about; just hope I can maintain that.

I tried discontinuing sleep aids in January I think it was, and simply couldn't manage it at all.

I guess that's neurodevelopment at work.

 

[JohnBoy2000]

5.5 hours great sleep last night.

WOOOO.

Incredible.

I haven't slept unassisted in.... 11 years.

Now I'm going to bed, getting sleepy, and falling asleep - like a normal brain!

No hypnotics, no sleep aids.

Last few nights has been all good, and here's to going from strength to strength.

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

5.5 hours great sleep last night.

WOOOO.

Incredible.

I haven't slept unassisted in.... 11 years.

Now I'm going to bed, getting sleepy, and falling asleep - like a normal brain!

No hypnotics, no sleep aids.

Last few nights has been all good, and here's to going from strength to strength.

I'm happy for you man, wish I could do the same.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Seroquel is shit, as are most (all) of the dopamine antagonists specially for people who don't suffer from psychosis. My suggestion is to try hydroxyzine or doxylamine first, these are pure H1 antihistaminergics which is the mechanism that's exploited when using seroquel/quetiapine for sleep but with the antihistamines you don't touch dopamine..

 

[LordOfThisWorld]

Seroquel is shit, as are most (all) of the dopamine antagonists specially for people who don't suffer from psychosis. My suggestion is to try hydroxyzine or doxylamine first, these are pure H1 antihistaminergics which is the mechanism that's exploited when using seroquel/quetiapine for sleep but with the antihistamines you don't touch dopamine..

I like seroquel, and think it works wonders for sleep, I'm not prescribed it, but a friend of mine is and occasionally he gives me a couple when he has extra, I sleep like a baby.

 

[plumbus-nine]

25mg do work but for me it was still somewhat nasty.. when you can't sleep and take two it blocks the nasal passage and causes dry mouth, caries risk, snoring.. the more you take, the more pronounced the other effects (D2 antagonism, norepinephrine reuptake inhibition by metabolite) become.

Recent research has shown that use of any antipsychotic results in smaller brain tissue volumes and that this brain shrinkage is dose dependent and time dependent.[4] A review of the research has also reinforced this effect.[5]

The use of antipsychotics may result in many unwanted side effects such as involuntary movement disorders, gynecomastia, impotence, weight gain and metabolic syndrome. Long-term use can produce adverse effects such as tardive dyskinesia.

(from wikipedia)

 

[n3ophy7e]

25mg do work but for me it was still somewhat nasty.. when you can't sleep and take two it blocks the nasal passage and causes dry mouth, caries risk, snoring.. the more you take, the more pronounced the other effects (D2 antagonism, norepinephrine reuptake inhibition by metabolite) become.


(from wikipedia)

That excerpt from Wikipedia is very much correct BUT as it also states, the side effects are dose dependent and time dependent. These things:

"Recent research has shown that use of any antipsychotic results in smaller brain tissue volumes and that this brain shrinkage is dose dependent and time dependent.[4] A review of the research has also reinforced this effect.[5]

The use of antipsychotics may result in many unwanted side effects such as involuntary movement disorders, gynecomastia, impotence, weight gain and metabolic syndrome. Long-term use can produce adverse effects such as tardive dyskinesia."

are highly unlikely to occur from short-term, low-dose usage of quetiapine for sleep.

I guess as with ALL psychiatric medications, anyone using them should speak to their doctor about it first, and whilst using them.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

APs are really hardcore drugs tbh. I would only take them for sleep if I was extremely desperate for it, and that's after taking them and being comfortable with them.

Tardive Dyskinesia and Akathisia scare the CRAP out of me. Also the mental fog the next day sucks, too.

 

[LivingOnValium]

I have an arsenal of sleep meds lol. I prefer to rotate between different meds instead of using just one and getting tolerant to it. Currently i got prescriptions for temazepam, quetiapine, mirtazapine, hydroxyzine (actually prescribed for itchy skin / atopic dermatitis), trimipramine and doxepin. I'm actually quite surprised my doctor allows to me to have all of them. These are all meds I have tried and i just keep requesting her to renew my prescriptions (via inrternet) and she always does. I'm well aware that even though she cannot (as a doctor) condone me having so many meds for the same purpose she off the record let's me have them. Most of them she labels to be used as an antidepressant instead of sleep aids. She is aware of my medical history and that i've had issues with sleeping my whole adult life.

APs are really hardcore drugs tbh. I would only take them for sleep if I was extremely desperate for it

Yes, that's exactly my stance of them as well. I use quetiapine as a "last resort" medication when everything else has failed. I hate how I feel on it.

 

[plumbus-nine]

While occasional use of specially low potency agents like quetiapine probably won't induce tardive dyskinesia, the increase in prolactin is real even with low doses of any D2 antagonist as well as increased brain fog, and nobody wants this. There is really no reason in blocking D2 for sleep, if any then you want the anti-adrenergic effects quetiapine has too but I'm unsure about their relevancy. Hydroxyzine alone is a very effective sleep aid (H1 inverse agonist) but one needs to take enough, less than 20mg are generally considered as non-sedating and there are even 100mg pills available - for me 30mg are an effective dose and there is little to no brain fog after sleep, sometimes I even wake up after just 4-5h and feel good again, which I really can't say about antipsychotics. Melatonin + hydroxyzine is an interesting combo, the melatonin alone doesn't hep me but together the sleep onset latency is greatly reduced.

Remember that the tricyclics, mirtazapine, quetiapine all are antihistaminergics and theoretically should be cross-tolerant. Mirtazapine is so crazily potent that after becoming tolerant to it nothing else worked to put me asleep for a while. In contrast, after 3 months of 7.5mg/d zopiclone I could just stop (not recommended either).

 

[LivingOnValium]

I'm aware that they all work by H1 antagonism. I mostly use trimipramine (greatest affinity to H1 after mirtazapine that im aware of) or mirtazipene as a base compund and add the others on top of it. It might be just placebo but i feel like alternating between the compounds provides some benefit.

 

[ghostfreak]

Mirtazapine has really helped my sleep, went down from 45mg to 30mg and I think the lower doses are more sedating. 45mg and upwards were more activating for me and I got used to it but dropped down as sleep was suffering then.

Still have trouble sleeping and waking up few times during the night but I have a stash of eszopiclone if it gets any worse.

 

[simstim]

Did you ever try olanzapine for sleep?

How does it stack up against seroquel?

I got zero drowsiness from olanzapine. I think it's a whole lot less sedating than any of the older antipsychotics. Not even on the same level as quetiapine. Benedryl would be better than olanzapine IMHO

 

[ions]

They would always dose highest right before bedtime in the hosptial. Akisthisia would be so bad some nights you can't sleep. It feels like your blood is boiling.

The invega I'm on now causes me to sleep half the day and just feel drained.