US - Mother pens devastating post to late daughter's drug dealer

[poledriver]

Mother pens devastating post to late daughter's drug dealer

A grief-stricken Missouri mother has shared a photo of herself with an urn containing her late daughter’s ashes in a bid to make “drug dealers see” the human cost of addiction.

In a post to the Heroin KILLS You Facebook page on August 15, Tina Wells Louden shared a photo of herself resting her face against the rim of an urn, inscribed with her daughter’s name, Ashley N. Shannon, and birth and death date.

“To my daughter's drug dealer, this is how I spend my daughter's birthday now... how do you live with yourself? That's all I wanna know,” she wrote.

The post comes more than three years after 24-year-old Ms Shannon died from a heroin overdose, following a five-year battle with her addiction, local broadcaster KSDK reported.

Ms Louden told KSDK her post has led to a string of messages from addicts and their families.

She said she is hopeful her post will inspire change in readers.

“We live through this pain, every birthday, every holiday, it’s not the same. Part of our heart is gone,” Ms Louden said.

“Maybe it would change somebody.”

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/...ate-daughters-drug-dealer#bi9bYv25mKW3sB1G.99

 

[JessFR]

I see, she feels her 24 year old adult daughter had the brain of a baby. It's only babies who truly are incapable of understanding being told that something is dangerous and must be constantly watched.

I feel for her pain, I do, nobody should have to experience the loss of their child no matter how much I may disagree or even despise their illformed beliefs. But I for one would be immensely pissed off if my mom pulled a stunt like this if I died in such a circumstance. Of course my mom, like me, is a strong believer in personal accountability and I spent my whole life being told that soon as I hit 18, I was an adult. No staying at home with her doing my laundry till I'm thirty. No blaming others for my mistakes (hell I stopped being allowed to get away with that one at about 8 let alone 18). Etc etc. I hated it at the time but I immensely respect and agree with her now as an adult, even if I felt it unfair at the time (that's another one she drilled in me early on, life isn't fair, don't believe anyone who claims it is, maybe it should be fair, maybe a lot of things should be, but adults have to deal with reality, and an attitude of whining about fair will not serve you in your adult life).

So naturally, while I don't agree with everything my mother believes or everything she did while I was growing up, very far from it. I do however feel that my mistakes, my screwups in life, are something I bare full and total responsibility for. And she's completely right in my opinion. Nobody force me to try heroin. Nobody tricked me. Like everyone I grew up with a million messages telling me all the real and bullshit horrors that await heroin addicts. And despite all that, whatever extenuating circumstances in my life may have led me to it. It was still my choice to try it that first time, and all the drugs before it.

I am responsible for my mistakes, because of heroin and unrelated to it. Absolutely and completely. My dealers aren't responsible, the drug using friends I hung with when I was younger aren't responsible. Society isn't responsible. Even the piece of shit assholes who abused me when I was young leading to my depression that attracted me to opiates, are, not, responsible. I am, me. For my addiction, and for every horrible, perhaps unforgivable thing I've done for it.

And to suggest otherwise, were my mother to defy everything I thought I knew about her and say my dealers or anyone else were in any way to blame. I would feel nothing short of insulted. Insulted and saddened that my mother felt I was a child in my mid 20s, deserving of having the blame put on someone else. Like you would do for a baby or small child or mentally impaired. Someone who truly can't appreciate their actions have consequences.

 

[Soso78]

Good post Jess but the mother doesn't blame the dealer anywhere in what she wrote. She simply asks how does he live himself/herself. A good question really. If your happy to sell drugs that kill people then your morally bankrupt even though people buy drugs of their own free will.
Ultimately it's the users responsibility but at the end of the day most heroin dealers are scum.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Why was my previous post deleted/UA'd?

There is no evidence to support the argument that tough love is helpful in terms of helping current and former drug users along in their sobriety and recovery.

It sickens me how "modern" treatment the world over is infested with this kind of ethos that has absolutely no basis in or relation to the scientific method, instead relying on anecdote as opposed to evidence.

Stories like this reinforce such prohibitionist drug war mongering.

 

[nuttynutskin]

Not to be heartless but you might as well ask someone who works at a liquor store how they live with themselves, or someone that works for Phillip Morris or Smirnoff. Ultimately her daughter was an adult and chose to use heroin. No one forced her afaik.

 

[JessFR]

Good post Jess but the mother doesn't blame the dealer anywhere in what she wrote. She simply asks how does he live himself/herself. A good question really. If your happy to sell drugs that kill people then your morally bankrupt even though people buy drugs of their own free will.
Ultimately it's the users responsibility but at the end of the day most heroin dealers are scum.

Well, I did read what as available lf what she wrote. On the first link and the link it uses a source. My impression was she blamed him, but I'll read it again, I may have misinterpreted or more likely, if you're right, I probably just went off the headline and jumped to the wrong conclusion.

If she's not blaming anyone else, then I'm happy to see that that's the case. But I still question how much the dealer should feel bad. On the one hand, if you're a good person, then likely you will feel responsible regardless of if it's rational to do so. I would were I a dealer and one of my customers died. But speaking purely from a rational perspective, I'm not sure how much it's warranted. If you cut your dope inconsistently, don't tell people of it spikes in potency, basically take risks of reckless indifference with peoples lives, then rationally you should feel horrible, and perhaps responsible. But if you simply sell a product, give people due warning when you can. Then from a purely rational perspective, you're not responsible.

It's not enormously common to die from heroin OD with no conflating factors, like other drugs taken or cut with the dope. If you cut the dope with something else that's dangerous to mix, you should feel bad, that's not ok. But if the user does it. The dealer shouldn't rationally be expected to feel personally responsible.

I've never once had a dealer tell me that taking their product was totally have, or that I should do anything reckless. I almost get the feeling most dealers would prefer I remain alive so I can continue buying from them.

Now im not excusing all dealers or saying that there aren't lots of totally reckless dealers who play chick with peoples lives, there are. I've been mostly fortunate with my connects but I've had a few scumbag dealers. But I am saying, purely from a rational perspective, I don't think they should be guilted simply for selling the product to the user in itself. Should 7/11 workers feel guilty for selling cigarettes to willing smokers, again like myself. Sure, a person with a strong conscience may well feel responsible despite it being irrational, as I suspect I would be. But it doesn't make it correct or ok for others to guilt them when it's irrational. The difference is in one case they are subjecting themselves to irrational but understandable guilt. In the other, someone else is attempting to place guilt on someone else, and cause suffering to another. They should require a greater standard of reason for their action.

I would also say that by saying he should feel guilty, in itself implies she holds him at least partly responsible. Now that's better that entirely responsible. But still more responsible than I think is warranted.

 

[JessFR]

Not to be heartless but you might as well ask someone who works at a liquor store how they live with themselves, or someone that works for Phillip Morris or Smirnoff. Ultimately her daughter was an adult and chose to use heroin. No one forced her afaik.

That is precisely my point, I couldn't agree more.

Although, one very minor trivial disagreement, I do think some senior members of tobacco companies should feel great shame and responsibility. Not for selling cigarettes to people like me in the west, where everyone knows the risks and they can't advertise. But in some third world countries where they take full advantage of the populations low educational and legal standards to get them addicted with the weak justification that they're following local law. That is selling a dangerous product to a population that by and large in some places may not fully appreciate the risks. Not to mention in the past where they denied the risks and generated biased and flawed research for their benefit.

If they simply sold a product to people who know the risks, and are unable to advertise to demographics that really don't know better,then I have no objection.

 

[Soso78]

What's in one pack of cigs is the same as the next, what's in a bottle of vodka is the same as all the others, can't say the same for heroin.

 

[JessFR]

Good post Jess but the mother doesn't blame the dealer anywhere in what she wrote. She simply asks how does he live himself/herself. A good question really. If your happy to sell drugs that kill people then your morally bankrupt even though people buy drugs of their own free will.
Ultimately it's the users responsibility but at the end of the day most heroin dealers are scum.

Many are scum, I have been fortunate to know many however who are not. In fact, we should encourage the dealers that aren't scumbags to keep dealing. Because without them, then the only ones left really will be the scumbags. But the ones just selling a product to people who want it, however rare, should not be made to feel guilty for it IMO. Yes it can kill people, so can knives and guns and alcohol and cars. Should they all feel guilty too?.

 

[JessFR]

What's in one pack of cigs is the same as the next, what's in a bottle of vodka is the same as all the others, can't say the same for heroin.

That's the fault of prohibition. And even with that being the case, that risk can be effectively managed. And finally, something being different between one example and another doesn't necessarily mean it actually makes a difference in the context of the discussion. In this case I'd argue it doesn't. Because again, people are widely aware that quality fluctuates. Again it's a knowing risk.

Though personally, and again I put a lot of it likely good luck. I've experienced very little fluctuation in quality when buying from the same dealers, and I know a few. And when it's been different it's usually been very noticeably different dope to start with. But I don't buy from shitty low level street dealers, so that's likely also a factor. And finally, my dealers have generally informed me every time there's been a sudden change in quality. Now having said that, in regards to that last sentence I of course acknowledge that my dealers aren't everyone's dealers and as I said, I'm very fortunate to have fairly good ones on the whole. I've had shitty ones too of course. My point I guess is your milage may vary. And that because of that, simply lumping all dealers together and saying they should all be ashamed and considered scum isn't something I can get on board with. Because I don't consider it morally wrong to sell a risky product to a willing and informed consumer on that basis alone.

And given how many lies are told about the risks of heroin, on top of the true risks. It can't reasonably said that any reasonable could plausibly not realize there is risk involved.

 

[nuttynutskin]

What's in one pack of cigs is the same as the next, what's in a bottle of vodka is the same as all the others, can't say the same for heroin.

So? Alcohol and cigarettes still kill people.

 

[Jabberwocky]

What's in one pack of cigs is the same as the next, what's in a bottle of vodka is the same as all the others, can't say the same for heroin.

Actually this depends where you live. In Iran and Saudi Arabia the quality of non-medical grade, bootleg ethyl alcohol is probably quite variable, and in developing countries the same could be said to be true for cigarettes too.

 

[Soso78]

Jess when you start comparing heroin dealers and car salesmen Im not sure where to go with that. It's just ridiculous.

I got on well with most my dealers but looking back now I ask myself how they sleep at night. Even without death and overdose the way some peoples lives are ruined from using heroin would prevent me from selling it to anyone. I sort of feel the same about people giving it for free.
If you use and your friend starts using too then your for of a cunt for letting them.
I suppose everyone has different experience of heroin. It's just mine was really bad, not everyone's is and that will affect their views on it.
Legalisation of class A drugs would solve most the problems.

 

[Soso78]

Toothpaste dog whenever I'm talking in general terms assume I mean "normal" western countries not some backwards thinking shithole country like Iran.

 

[JessFR]

Jess when you start comparing heroin dealers and car salesmen Im not sure where to go with that. It's just ridiculous.

I got on well with most my dealers but looking back now I ask myself how they sleep at night. Even without death and overdose the way some peoples lives are ruined from using heroin would prevent me from selling it to anyone. I sort of feel the same about people giving it for free.
If you use and your friend starts using too then your for of a cunt for letting them.
I suppose everyone has different experience of heroin. It's just mine was really bad, not everyone's is and that will affect their views on it.
Legalisation of class A drugs would solve most the problems.

Make no mistake, heroin has cost me more than I would have ever imagined. I am utterly disgusted and appalled at what I've stooped too for my habit. I just wouldn't want anyone looking at me and blaming the dealers. I and I alone am responsible for the horrible mistakes I've made and the things I've done to both myself and other people.

And trying to publicly shame dealers is not productive in the least. All it acts to do is discourage the dealers with a conscience to stop and leave us all with only the most sociopathic dealers. How is that in the interests of anyone.

 

[S.J.B.]

I'm sorry, Ms. Louden, but if your daughter was addicted to heroin for five years, odds are she sold some to someone at some point too.

 

[mister]

replace heroin with driving too fast, jumping out of airplanes or off buildings. Thrill seekers, whether through drugs or risky behaviour, are all chasing the same high and choose to do this.

 

[mister]

I didnt even read it because all parents that are grieving from losing a child to a drug, sounds exactly the same.

Oh ********* got in with the wrong crowd or "this isnt like *******at all, he/she was a good......whatever

we shouldnt be hearing this, kids shouldnt be dying from drugs, we should be educating them about drugs, the pros and cons AND safe use.

Drug use has been rampant throughout youth movements for decades but our opinions have been trapped in a never ending Nixon fix that has spawned druglords and anti drug government forces and prisons for drugs.

The druglords, the government forces and prisons for drugs are completely reliant for profit, on drugs never being legalised or decriminalised.

If drugs became legal tomorrow, all three of those groups would die a quick death and a lot of people would lose a lot of money on BOTH sides.......they're not going to let that happen easily

 

[mister]

the war on drugs is a con so that a few people on both sides can earn exorbitant amounts of wealth at the expense of the rest of us

 

[MrRoot]

I didnt even read it because all parents that are grieving from losing a child to a drug, sounds exactly the same.

Oh ********* got in with the wrong crowd or "this isnt like *******at all, he/she was a good......whatever

we shouldnt be hearing this, kids shouldnt be dying from drugs, we should be educating them about drugs, the pros and cons AND safe use.

First time I told about my drug abuse to my parents they were like:

"Oh well, we feared this might happen as we know you. Luckily you are not using street drugs and can function atleast. We've always known that you need something to escape the reality as you care too much for others and that when you got wounded back there (Afghanistan) it denied plenty of the healthier ways to do that and caused personal health problems and we guess the whole two tours there affected you too. How can we help you?"

I am quite sure that if I died from drug abuse they wouldn't be blaming anyone else about it. Maybe themselves for raising me up without having decent coping mechanisms for life but not my friends or big pharma companies my doctors or such.