Undercover's legal moves in the US

760rollz

760rollz

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
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Okay so I searched the topic, but didn't find anything relative to what I want to know. My questions are about the urban legends of what an undercover can or can not do in an effort bust someone for sales or distribution of a controlled substance in the US. So what can they do?

1) Can they get high with some one to, "Prove" they are not underrcover? ie. "Hey that guy might be a cop, make him smoke a joint with you before you sell to him. If he is a cop he wont smoke out."

2) Can an undercover solicite a controled substance or does the suspected dealer have to approach the undercover? ie. Out of the blue a person who you have met a couple of times, even given a ride to a few events but do not know all that well nor do you talk to this person all that often sends a text asking if you can hook it up. Can an undercover do that or would that fall under entrapment? Would the person who the undercover was trying to build a case on have to send the text out to or start the conversation by what ever means with the undercover asking if he needs anything?

3) I'm pretty sure that this one is an urban ledgend lie but, does an undercover have to identify his or her self as a cop when asked if they are an undercover?

4) How interkit and expensive would a sting be? How much money would the DEA drop into a sting to creat the facade of the undercover being an average raver kid?

What are some things that might have been red flags to someone that saved them from getting involved with the ever so sneaky undercover world other than just gut reactions? I tend to get pariniod and suspissious of any new people I think to a fault lol. So I was just currious about this shit. And sorry if this violates any of the posting guidelines in this forum. I think I've only posted in this forum once before, and when I did I got a friendly PM from one of the moderators telling me that my question was not allowed in the forum. I hope that is not the case again.

Rollz
 
760rollz said:
Okay so I searched the topic, but didn't find anything relative to what I want to know. My questions are about the urban legends of what an undercover can or can not do in an effort bust someone for sales or distribution of a controlled substance in the US. So what can they do?

1) Can they get high with some one to, "Prove" they are not underrcover? ie. "Hey that guy might be a cop, make him smoke a joint with you before you sell to him. If he is a cop he wont smoke out."
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http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080128181219AAGDPD9

760rollz said:
2) Can an undercover solicite a controled substance or does the suspected dealer have to approach the undercover? ie. Out of the blue a person who you have met a couple of times, even given a ride to a few events but do not know all that well nor do you talk to this person all that often sends a text asking if you can hook it up. Can an undercover do that or would that fall under entrapment? Would the person who the undercover was trying to build a case on have to send the text out to or start the conversation by what ever means with the undercover asking if he needs anything?
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Legally speaking, entrapment occurs whenever a police officer or other government agent deceives an innocent person into committing a crime he or she had no prior intention of committing. But they can repeatedly ask you to sell them drugs and if you do, then you would have a hard time convincing a court it's something you felt forced into doing against your will.

760rollz said:
3) I'm pretty sure that this one is an urban ledgend lie but, does an undercover have to identify his or her self as a cop when asked if they are an undercover?
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no. that would defeat the purpose of going undercover and trying to convince you they are not affiliated with LE

760rollz said:
4) How interkit and expensive would a sting be? How much money would the DEA drop into a sting to creat the facade of the undercover being an average raver kid?

What are some things that might have been red flags to someone that saved them from getting involved with the ever so sneaky undercover world other than just gut reactions? I tend to get pariniod and suspissious of any new people I think to a fault lol. So I was just currious about this shit. And sorry if this violates any of the posting guidelines in this forum. I think I've only posted in this forum once before, and when I did I got a friendly PM from one of the moderators telling me that my question was not allowed in the forum. I hope that is not the case again.

Rollz
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LE is more interested in busting the higher level dealers. But because it's hard to get at them, it's become common for cops to bust people with small amounts for simple possession or possession with intent to sell and then try to cut them a deal to act as informants so LE can get at the higher level dealers. (this part edited - can't give advice on how to break the law)
 
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So then just busting out with the fat bowl of green should be enough to dispel any fears one might have about someone's law enforcement affiliation then right?
 
AfterGlow said:
Legally speaking, entrapment occurs whenever a police officer or other government agent deceives an innocent person into committing a crime he or she had no prior intention of committing. But they can repeatedly ask you to sell them drugs and if you do, then you would have a hard time convincing a court it's something you felt forced into doing against your will.
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This has always confused me a little. I've seen stings on TV where a cop has provided unrealistic circumstances to invoke a crime. For example, I don't do coke, but if someone came up to me and said, "Hey, you want an 8 ball for $5, I need to get rid of this fast" then I might purchase it simply because the threshold for committing the crime was significantly lowered.

Similarly, if I'm approached by a prostitute for a $5 blowjob, I'd be far more tempted to commit a crime that I wouldn't otherwise have committed.

Aren't these situations also considered entrapment, since the circumstances surrounding the crime are encouraged by the behavior of the police?
 
760rollz said:
So then just busting out with the fat bowl of green should be enough to dispel any fears one might have about someone's law enforcement affiliation then right?
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What would that prove? Personally I don't smoke weed, but will partake in other drugs. I just don't enjoy weed anymore and would pass on the bowl. But even when I did smoke (15+ years of it), if someone handed me a bowl, I always weighed the circumstances- like if I needed to go someplace that day where I needed to be "straight", I would pass. And way back in my college days I would do a little selling. When I would sell, I would not smoke any while making runs. I wanted to make sure I was straight as an arrow if I did happen to get pulled over.
 
And while the law may state that an undercover is not allowed to do drugs as part of an operation unless their life is in imminent danger if they refused, it would not surprise me to learn of undercover breaking the rules and then lying about it in court. Going after drug dealers is a dangerous and dirty business. The sooner the drug laws are reformed, the better off we'll all be!
 
So I guess my best bet is to just not go into a situation I'm unsure of then.
 
always check for wires too. ;)

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THAT WIRE SHIT IS A JOKE RIGHT?
First off an undercover can and WILL do anything to bust you. That includes smoking, rolling, triping..e.t.c. If you belive that an average Joe like yourself has any chance of going against an established detective (which he/her has to before getting involved in undercover work) in court then you have something else coming to you. USA has some of the most well funded drug cops in the world. There has been hundreds if not thousands operations including raves and rave kids. There should be no surprise there since the rave culture in saturated with drugs. What you should consider is that the chances of an undercover penetrating your circle of friends is slim unless youre moving weight and dealing boats. What you should be on the look out for people that get caught and work for them as a part of a deal. Most of the time you will NEVER know if that person is arrested or not because it will all be very quiet and discreet. The only way to know if a person you deal with somehow starts asking for more then usual and/or more often then before. That should raise suspicion.
Dont ever take chances. Better be safe then sorry.
 
Nice display there Banquo. Looks like the real LE shit! In my home state, there are no entrapment laws as far as i know. (IL) :|

That attatchment creeps me out
 
>ENLiGHT* said:
THAT WIRE SHIT IS A JOKE RIGHT?
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Yes. I have no information on how to detect undercover surveillance, so please don't rely on things that you read here. It's not really part of this forum's subject area. Anecdotally, it appears that a majority of people are busted the old fashioned way anyway.

As for entrapment, there are varying laws in different jurisdictions, both state and federal. In some places, it is easier to prove entrapment than in others, but regardless it is almost always a difficult defense to use. Entrapment usually focuses either on the disposition of the accused (would he have done this had the police not induced him?) or the behavior of law enforcement (did the police create the crime?).
 
I got arrested becuz a CI (snitch) kept calling me over and over and over and over and over to sell him oxys. i didnt want to and avoided doing it alot of times. they just wouldnt leave me alone so i did it. i got arrested and convicted for it. whoever believes in that entrapment shit is straight dumb. they do watever they want to.
 
lacey k said:
I got arrested becuz a CI (snitch) kept calling me over and over and over and over and over to sell him oxys. i didnt want to and avoided doing it alot of times. they just wouldnt leave me alone so i did it. i got arrested and convicted for it. whoever believes in that entrapment shit is straight dumb. they do watever they want to.
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See, this is exactly what I mean. Aren't the cops trying to create a realistic criminal scenario? You can turn the frigging pope into a criminal if you bug him long enough, or make an offer he can't refuse.

I think the laws regarding stings need to stipulate normal every day circumstances.
 
Yep same condition with me, offered a extra amount on top that i couldnt pass up, if i would deliver them, and that was a wrap for me.
 
First of all, snitches are rarely undercover law enforcement agents. They're undercover civilians, working for law enforcement to avoid facing jail time. So they can break whatever the fuck laws they want while collecting evidence for the case being built against you. They're just civilians like you, with a tacit agreement from law enforcement that they will be getting away with some amount of crime because they are helping law enforcement do their job.
 
Perhaps then we should move to abolish civilian aide of law enforcement since it's quite often done under duress, and it's being abused by LE to get someone else to collect evidence without having to be professional about it.

If you want an example, look at how Perverted Justice made a complete mockery of the law in the Murphy Texas sting resulting in a $100 million lawsuit to NBC. It was a complete joke and people's lives were ruined and there was even a suicide! This miscarriage of justice was all for the sake of TV entertainment.

LE needs to do their own job.
 
I think all the other questions were answered but for
4) How interkit and expensive would a sting be? How much money would the DEA drop into a sting to creat the facade of the undercover being an average raver kid?
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^^This is how it works, the cops will arrest someone. That person decides to give away X number of 'dealers' to not get in trouble. So you really don't need to worry about undercover DEA agents busting you unless your moving a lot of weight. You are much much more likely to be snitched on by a friend or friend of a friend who got in trouble.

For me it started out as someone getting busted for a DUI, the kid who got a DUI flipped on the kid who gave him the vicodin, the kid who sold the vicodin flipped on me (even though I'm not a drug dealer and only sold this kid a suboxone once). See how simple it is? The cops don't even need to spend money, they just need to scare weak minded people who don't know their rights into snitching. This kind of thing probably makes up +95% of the busts that occur.

Oh when the cops tried to get me to snitch the detective told me "do what you have to do to get people to sell to you", basically meaning it's fine to keep using drugs or doing whatever you need in order to get the next guy. Anyway I never snitched and the cops never called my lawyer to make a deal...so i think I avoided charges and snitching by simply getting a lawyer. <---off topic, but i can't help but rant and tell my story.
 
dankstersauce said:
Anyway I never snitched and the cops never called my lawyer to make a deal...so i think I avoided charges and snitching by simply getting a lawyer. <---off topic, but i can't help but rant and tell my story.
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I <3 u.
 
I know a RCMP undercover. The mission he was assigned to was very hard and he really had to 'become' his character. So he began to use drugs. His collegues knew about it but they somehow understood. Eventually the mission ended and after hard work he was clean again. They assigned him a deskjob now.
 
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