Opioids Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone (UDLN) Experiences

[negrogesic]

Any experiences with either ultra low dose naltrexone or low dose naltrexone?

In short, the idea behind it is to take a tiny dose of a long-acting opioid antagonist to upregulate the opioid system/promote endorphin release. The doses used are very small, often in the 1 microgram to 50 microgram range (which 10,000 to 50,000 times less than the starting doses of naltrexone used to treat alcoholism).

Oftentimes, ultra low dose naltrexone is used in combination with an opioid for those looking to decrease their tolerance. At these very low doses naltrexone does not precipitate withdrawal.

However, I am no longer a daily opioid use and my goal is not to reduce tolerance, but to upregulate my opioid system. I have spent more than a third of my life on daily high dose opioids. At the peak of my opioid dependency I was taking 380mg of methadone a day (equivalent to around 4.5 grams of morphine/day), on top of which I somehow managed to develop a secondary opioid habit of IV fentanyl, 16.8mg a day (another 1.5g of morphine equivalent). Managed to get off of daily opioids eventually, but I've had many lower level flare-ups, shorter term habits with various opioids like tianeptine, poppy pods, tramadol etc etc.

It is probably fair to say my opioid system is highly dysregulated, especially given that I started heavy opioid abuse while still a teenager. I try to avoid them as best I can but still dabble. Recently I made the mistake of growing poppies. About two weeks ago I consumed one relatively strong dose of poppy tea, probably containing around 120mg to 160mg of morphine, and after it wore off, I felt pretty terrible for a good 10 days. This is how low functioning my opioid system is. Withdrawal from a single dose.

In any event, I just started ultra low dose naltrexone today, in hopes that it might improve my clearly dysregulated opioid system. I started with 5 micrograms earlier this morning.

Can't imagine I'll get many replies but if anyone has experiences with ultra low dose or low dose naltrexone I'd love to hear them!

 

[cdin]

yep. it works great with oxycodone. i take 20-50mcg an hour before each dose and i have been on the same dose for years (10mg total in day). it just makes it a lot easier to take dose up and down.

 

[negrogesic]

I'm a few days in now, I think I might notice something. The doses are very low, around 10-20mcg a day.

Yesterday I took 10mcg in the evening and I had alot of trouble sleeping. Seems better to take it in the morning.

 

[ageingpartyfiend]

I know someone irl who has recently been rx'd LDN off label for fibromyalgia in UK.

They've experienced a lot of benefit in terms of not being as easily physically tired out from activities that were previously exhausting- they didn't think it would have been so effective for them but it's only been a few weeks so early days

 

[cdin]

I'm a few days in now, I think I might notice something. The doses are very low, around 10-20mcg a day.

Yesterday I took 10mcg in the evening and I had alot of trouble sleeping. Seems better to take it in the morning.

Interesting. I don’t hardly notice an effect at this point outside of it being easier to titrate opioids. I don’t start noticing pharmacological effects until I push it passed 100-150mcg. I’ve heard this can vary a lot person to person though.

 

[negrogesic]

Interesting. I don’t hardly notice an effect at this point outside of it being easier to titrate opioids. I don’t start noticing pharmacological effects until I push it passed 100-150mcg. I’ve heard this can vary a lot person to person though.

Could easily be placebo. What seems less like placebo is difficulty sleeping when taken before bed. But even that may be placebo.

What effects do you notice at 150ug?

 

[Xorkoth]

I have been thinking a lot about trying this, lately. I am in the middle of an extended relapse that has become really severe and exhausting. I'm finding it very difficult to stop or even reduce my dose of kratom. I, too, have spent at least a third of my life heavily addicted to opiates. I'm about to get 4 x 8mg suboxone pills (again), and this time after dosing through them I am going to just consider there to be no other option but to stop. I keep wondering if ULDN will help me to recover faster. My opioid system is also so dysregulated that I get withdrawals nearly immediately from any opioid use, even kratom. And I find kratom withdrawal absolutely intolerable because of the demonic levels of restless energy, low dose suboxone withdrawal is distinctly easier to deal with. Though obviously still shitty.

A while back I rented a cabin for a month with a friend and we both went cold turkey with one week of gabapentin and lyrica every other day to help at the beginning. Worked out a lot, played music, took the first 2 and a half weeks off work so I didn't have any responsibilities except taking care of myself. It was the easiest withdrawal I have ever had, though my relapse I was coming off was shorter and less severe than this one. I really fucked myself when I was almost down to zero kratom and decided in my infinite wisdom to try some poppy pods, and went through 5 or 6 pounds. Very quickly my dose escalated and I ended up doing about 100 grams at a time. Ever since I stopped those, I have basically never felt right, I'm using tons of kratom because otherwise I feel horrible, but it doesn't make me feel good. I'm scared of how bad I will feel when I do stop, and this time there is no way I can take a month off of my life. In fact this summer I have a very busy schedule with my band, plus lots of work. If there is anything I can do to help besides stay on kratom (where I am functional and productive, but just always feeling quite below my baseline when I'm clean and past the aftereffects), I want to try it.

 

[cdin]

Could easily be placebo. What seems less like placebo is difficulty sleeping when taken before bed. But even that may be placebo.

What effects do you notice at 150ug?

just that at a certain point it stops helping the opioid and begins severely blunting it, i assume this would progress to full on precip wd if pushed ofc. but ya chills, blah feeling, "meds not working" feeling. never noticed sleep interruption at any dose though. I have only pushed it past 100mcg a couple of times.

 

[cdin]

a

I have been thinking a lot about trying this, lately. I am in the middle of an extended relapse that has become really severe and exhausting. I'm finding it very difficult to stop or even reduce my dose of kratom. I, too, have spent at least a third of my life heavily addicted to opiates. I'm about to get 4 x 8mg suboxone pills (again), and this time after dosing through them I am going to just consider there to be no other option but to stop. I keep wondering if ULDN will help me to recover faster. My opioid system is also so dysregulated that I get withdrawals nearly immediately from any opioid use, even kratom. And I find kratom withdrawal absolutely intolerable because of the demonic levels of restless energy, low dose suboxone withdrawal is distinctly easier to deal with. Though obviously still shitty.

A while back I rented a cabin for a month with a friend and we both went cold turkey with one week of gabapentin and lyrica every other day to help at the beginning. Worked out a lot, played music, took the first 2 and a half weeks off work so I didn't have any responsibilities except taking care of myself. It was the easiest withdrawal I have ever had, though my relapse I was coming off was shorter and less severe than this one. I really fucked myself when I was almost down to zero kratom and decided in my infinite wisdom to try some poppy pods, and went through 5 or 6 pounds. Very quickly my dose escalated and I ended up doing about 100 grams at a time. Ever since I stopped those, I have basically never felt right, I'm using tons of kratom because otherwise I feel horrible, but it doesn't make me feel good. I'm scared of how bad I will feel when I do stop, and this time there is no way I can take a month off of my life. In fact this summer I have a very busy schedule with my band, plus lots of work. If there is anything I can do to help besides stay on kratom (where I am functional and productive, but just always feeling quite below my baseline when I'm clean and past the aftereffects), I want to try it.

im really sorry you're in this place. i know it well. any time i have ended up there i elect to switch over to hydro or oc, titrate and quit from there just because I absolutely loathe the krat wds more than anything. I recently have revamped my diet completely and am kind of amazed at how much better I feel following low inflamation/glycemic index diet. My plan as of right now is to jump off even the 8mg of OC i have been on the last little bit (because my pain is so much better) and after 2 weeks do a four or five hundred mg ibo hcl booster. My provider is in town serendipitously and two weeks off would satisfy my deal with iboga not to use it for opioids. it would be for PTSD. (which also is loads better with the diet switch)

 

[G_Chem]

a

im really sorry you're in this place. i know it well. any time i have ended up there i elect to switch over to hydro or oc, titrate and quit from there just because I absolutely loathe the krat wds more than anything. I recently have revamped my diet completely and am kind of amazed at how much better I feel following low inflamation/glycemic index diet. My plan as of right now is to jump off even the 8mg of OC i have been on the last little bit (because my pain is so much better) and after 2 weeks do a four or five hundred mg ibo hcl booster. My provider is in town serendipitously and two weeks off would satisfy my deal with iboga not to use it for opioids. it would be for PTSD. (which also is loads better with the diet switch)

I’d cautious trying to find loopholes regarding your “deal” with Iboga. Plant spirits generally don’t take kindly to that.

-GC

 

[cdin]

I’d cautious trying to find loopholes regarding your “deal” with Iboga. Plant spirits generally don’t take kindly to that.

-GC

The deal was to titrate myself off opes and not be coming to it for ope help. That’s what I’ve done over the last year, and being able to go multiple weeks w no opes satisfies that condition. I am piss scared of ibo murdering me, and respect the hell out of that ancient tree spirit. Definitely not trying to shirk or cheat the deal. Finally feel at a good place to resume work with it is all.

 

[cdin]

@negrogesic also important to note - it will take 3/4 mos of working on an existing habit to get it more pliable via NALT. it works best if you initiate it at the time the habit is begun. that being said i used it after, but it did take several months to really get it working the way it does for me now.

 

[SuperPsych]

I am attempting to taper off of suboxone but am having a rough time. Was up to 16mg per day and am now down to 12mg per day. So far I've been dropping 2mg every 1-2 months. Even dropping 2mg can be a bit uncomfortable, and I feel like it takes about a month for my body to get used to the lower dose. Just in time for another decrease. It's nothing too bad. Usually just mild soreness in the legs and maybe a tiny bitof restlessness at night. Does anyone know if I started ULDN now, if it might help my body adjust to the dose drops quicker, or if it might somehow make this process a bit easier to handle? I've been on subs almost a year now, before that i was on about 20-30g of Kratom a day. I've used kratom on and off for years and have also been addicted to Morphine and Heroin at different times in my life. I also feel that my system is so dysregulated that I get withdrawal effects after 1 or 2 doses of an opioid.

Do you think it'd be better for me to start ULDN now, or wait until I am offf of subs completely?

 

[deficiT]

I am attempting to taper off of suboxone but am having a rough time. Was up to 16mg per day and am now down to 12mg per day. So far I've been dropping 2mg every 1-2 months. Even dropping 2mg can be a bit uncomfortable, and I feel like it takes about a month for my body to get used to the lower dose. Just in time for another decrease. It's nothing too bad. Usually just mild soreness in the legs and maybe a tiny bitof restlessness at night. Does anyone know if I started ULDN now, if it might help my body adjust to the dose drops quicker, or if it might somehow make this process a bit easier to handle? I've been on subs almost a year now, before that i was on about 20-30g of Kratom a day. I've used kratom on and off for years and have also been addicted to Morphine and Heroin at different times in my life. I also feel that my system is so dysregulated that I get withdrawal effects after 1 or 2 doses of an opioid.

Do you think it'd be better for me to start ULDN now, or wait until I am offf of subs completely?

I can't necessarily answer your question for you, as I've never gone the naltrexone route and have only just recently found out that low dose naltrexone is a thing that people can use to help with withdrawal.

But what I will say, is that I've come off of 16mg Suboxone multiple times now. Imo, dropping only 2mg every month or two is way too slow. I mean, I've tapered from a Suboxone dose going 16 - 12 - 8 - 4 - 2 - 1 - 0.... Over the course of a few weeks.

If you've only been on it a year, my advice is to not do this super extended long taper that will likely take you a whole year to do properly. It sucks, but it's better to just get the WD over with in a lot of circumstances.

Your mileage may vary of course, but this is just my experience and advice on this particular situation.

As an aside, in reference to the rest of the thread, I am def very interested in learning a little more about low dose naltrexone, as it's something totally new to me.

 

[SuperPsych]

I can't necessarily answer your question for you, as I've never gone the naltrexone route and have only just recently found out that low dose naltrexone is a thing that people can use to help with withdrawal.

But what I will say, is that I've come off of 16mg Suboxone multiple times now. Imo, dropping only 2mg every month or two is way too slow. I mean, I've tapered from a Suboxone dose going 16 - 12 - 8 - 4 - 2 - 1 - 0.... Over the course of a few weeks.

If you've only been on it a year, my advice is to not do this super extended long taper that will likely take you a whole year to do properly. It sucks, but it's better to just get the WD over with in a lot of circumstances.

Your mileage may vary of course, but this is just my experience and advice on this particular situation.

As an aside, in reference to the rest of the thread, I am def very interested in learning a little more about low dose naltrexone, as it's something totally new to me.

That's something I've been considering actually, speeding up the taper. The thought of another year on this medicine is overwhelming. I think I'll give that a shot. I'm on 12mg now, I think I'll see how I handle 6mg tomorrow. I usually feel pretty decent the first few hours of my day. I think that if I can get half way through the day, then 6mg in the evening will get me through until the night.

 

[pbuilder]

Bumping this because I’ve been experimenting with Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone myself to reduce opiate/opioid tolerance and potentiate effects… difficult to say if it’s working or not making much difference, I’m on 120mg methadone and have been taking 2 or 3 micrograms of Naltrexone per day. I basically dissolved 10mg of Naltrexone in a liter of water and take 0.2 or 0.3ml per day before my dose. Anyone else tried it, should I increase the amount I take a little bit as I know 2 or 3 micrograms is a REAL low dose. I also just got on methadone about 3 months ago so I’ve been going up by 5mg every week or two for the last couple of weeks as well, that’s also why it’s harder to gauge how much the Naltrexone is doing as my dose of methadone has been going up until I find my perfect stable dose for now.

 

[Vastness]

This thread is very interesting. I guess I haven't ever had that severe an opiate problem but I've definitely pushed the limits on almost every class to the point that I feel like I've broken something in my reward system... The principle seems like it should apply almost universally since endogenous opioids are literally the basic mechanism by which humans experience enjoyment about... well, anything in life. Hopefully a few who posted here a couple of years ago can report back about how it went, if they stuck it out!

 

[negrogesic]

Bumping this because I’ve been experimenting with Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone myself to reduce opiate/opioid tolerance and potentiate effects… difficult to say if it’s working or not making much difference, I’m on 120mg methadone and have been taking 2 or 3 micrograms of Naltrexone per day. I basically dissolved 10mg of Naltrexone in a liter of water and take 0.2 or 0.3ml per day before my dose. Anyone else tried it, should I increase the amount I take a little bit as I know 2 or 3 micrograms is a REAL low dose. I also just got on methadone a couple of months ago so I’ve been going to 5mg every week or two for the last couple of weeks as well, that’s also why it’s harder to gauge how much the Naltrexone is doing as my dose of methadone has been going up until I find my perfect stable dose for now.

I personally couldn't tell if it was working (while taking those kinds of doses).

I felt like it might have made me irritatable and might have caused some insomnia, but this could all have been imagined and unrelated to the UDLN. This was mostly taken alone, without narcotics.

Not sure if I'd push the dose higher than say 10mcg, those they gave this guy a full milligram https://www.jpsmjournal.com/article/S0885-3924(03)00139-8/fulltext

 

[G_Chem]

I personally couldn't tell if it was working (while taking those kinds of doses).

I felt like it might have made me irritatable and might have caused some insomnia, but this could all have been imagined and unrelated to the UDLN. This was mostly taken alone, without narcotics.

Not sure if I'd push the dose higher than say 10mcg, those they gave this guy a full milligram https://www.jpsmjournal.com/article/S0885-3924(03)00139-8/fulltext

Looks like they only gave him 1mcg 2x daily.

-GC

 

[negrogesic]

Looks like they only gave him 1mcg 2x daily.

-GC

Whoops, I just scanned the document visually for the dose and saw "1mg", didn't read further