Misc Two separate questions on nicotine

[Kingoffrogs]

Interesting. I’ve tried to search for the mechanism online but couldn’t even find any acknowledgement about this phenomenon of nicotine exacerbating caffeine withdrawal. is there any reason you think it might be acetylcholine signalling?
Just out of interest, have you ever used nicotine in a period of your life where you didn’t use caffeine at all. I am now on the 17th day of the month of Ramadan, a time in which I voluntarily completely abstain from caffeine to avoid dehydration and sleep problems. however, I do use nicotine if I have the chance because it doesn’t cause me those problems.
I’ve noticed that after the caffeine withdrawal past, nicotine feels strangely much more rewarding and pleasant in the complete absence of caffeine.
I just wondered if you’ve had a similar experience.
That’s not to say that the combination of caffeine and nicotine are necessarily bad, for me, they can produce a really nice strong stimulant effect. however, it is less functional and sometimes I feel like that euphoria is more shortlived.

Yes, in the absence of Caffeine I am able to get a buzz from nicotine. While caffeinated I am not able to achieve a buzz at all. Also it lasts longer when I'm not caffeinated.

I only vape like 1-2 times a week now, and when I do, I take a 3-5 second rip from my friend's Elf Bar. The first time I hit that in a day it has me buzzing for a good couple minutes, it's quite weird.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Yes, in the absence of Caffeine I am able to get a buzz from nicotine. While caffeinated I am not able to achieve a buzz at all. Also it lasts longer when I'm not caffeinated.

I only vape like 1-2 times a week now, and when I do, I take a 3-5 second rip from my friend's Elf Bar. The first time I hit that in a day it has me buzzing for a good couple minutes, it's quite weird.

Thank you for your feedback. I thought I was the only one who experienced these effects.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

People get euphoria from nicotine? I never knew that. All I'm getting is a higher risk of dying

I've never had a really strong euphoria from pure nicotine, it seems more subtle in nature

but from tobacco? Absolutely. With no tolerance a good big dip of smokeless or snuff tobacco produces a strong euphoria

the various other minor alkaloids and MAOIs in tobacco add quite a bit to the high

cigarettes provide the same, but only last a few minutes

 

[Neuroprotection]

I've never had a really strong euphoria from pure nicotine, it seems more subtle in nature

but from tobacco? Absolutely. With no tolerance a good big dip of smokeless or snuff tobacco produces a strong euphoria

the various other minor alkaloids and MAOIs in tobacco add quite a bit to the high

cigarettes provide the same, but only last a few minutes

I’ve heard that some vaping companies have proposed adding pure harmaline to their nicotine products to make them more rewarding and better mimic real tobacco. i’m sure that would make for a very very addictive product.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I’ve heard that some vaping companies have proposed adding pure harmaline to their nicotine products to make them more rewarding and better mimic real tobacco. i’m sure that would make for a very very addictive product.

I've considered doing that myself!

then I talk myself out of it, because nicotine addiction is stupid and I've been a slave to it for 20 years

I started vaping in an attempt to quit tobacco, trying to replicate the high of tobacco would be a step backwards for me in a way

plus, I imagine if you vape enough harmaline it becomes psychoactive, and it's probably a lot stronger than the MAOIs in nicotine. (which are all relatively weak in their action)

 

[vacuole]

Surprisingly, I found a lot of pleasure in snuff products, though it was definitely something in the "less is more" category. Nasal snuff gave the spinny head buzz nicotine is known for in a more subtle way than inhaling tobacco product, and the mild euphoria and mood lift is nice provided you don't overdo it. Nowadays I stick to vaping, but I recall snuff being a nice alternative, certainly more preferable to oral preparations IME.

 

[jasperkent]

I’ve heard that some vaping companies have proposed adding pure harmaline to their nicotine products to make them more rewarding and better mimic real tobacco. i’m sure that would make for a very very addictive product.

How appropriate that it's called  harmaline!

And I've always thought that  dop( e)amine was aptly named.

On nicotine and euphoria-- of course it's nowhere near as strong as drugs like coke or oxy, but yes, I get a significant (though short-lived) euphoria from my first nicotine of the day. And that's after 50 years of heavy daily use.

 

[Neuroprotection]

How appropriate that it's called  harmaline!

And I've always thought that  dop( e)amine was aptly named.

On nicotine and euphoria-- of course it's nowhere near as strong as drugs like coke or oxy, but yes, I get a significant (though short-lived) euphoria from my first nicotine of the day. And that's after 50 years of heavy daily use.

Whilst I wouldn’t recommend this, apparently nicotine works as a really good Potentiator for rewarding effects of drugs like cocaine or opioids. I don’t know if this translates to enhanced euphoria or just to greater reinforcement.

 

[jasperkent]

Whilst I wouldn’t recommend this, apparently nicotine works as a really good Potentiator for rewarding effects of drugs like cocaine or opioids. I don’t know if this translates to enhanced euphoria or just to greater reinforcement.

Absolutely. And yes, I know from experience.

Smoking a cigarette while oxycodone is kicking in is, in my opinion, almost as good as sex. I once knew a gal who said that her idea of Heaven was "An IV drip of heroin and a cigarette that's 20 feet long."

 

[Neuroprotection]

Absolutely. And yes, I know from experience.

Smoking a cigarette while oxycodone is kicking in is, in my opinion, almost as good as sex. I once knew a gal who said that her idea of Heaven was "An IV drip of heroin and a cigarette that's 20 feet long."

Thank you for that. Do you have any experiences with nicotine combined with dopaminergic stimulants like amphetamine or cocaine?

 

[Jongalt26]

Oral pouches can give a quick high followed by nausea and dizziness, while smoking or vaping tends to be smoother with a better euphoric feeling. And yeah, nicotine and caffeine withdrawal definitely don't play well together.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Oral pouches can give a quick high followed by nausea and dizziness, while smoking or vaping tends to be smoother with a better euphoric feeling. And yeah, nicotine and caffeine withdrawal definitely don't play well together.

Thank you so much for that. Before I started this thread, I thought I was the only one who’s caffeine withdrawal was made worse by nicotine

 

[jasperkent]

Do you have any experiences with nicotine combined with dopaminergic stimulants like amphetamine or cocaine?

Yes. Many, many times.

I was a smoker throughout my use of, abuse of, addiction to, and abstinence from various drugs, including methamphetamine and cocaine. I always tended to smoke more while on stimulants, but I don't recall any boost to my subjective experience of the effects of those drugs. Neither did I particularly enjoy smoking any more than usual. It felt more like I just needed to be doing something constantly.

I suppose I might have been getting an effect that I was not aware of, but I doubt it. I'm quite tuned in to both my mind and body whether I'm under the influence of drugs or not.

Alcohol seemed to enhance my enjoyment of tobacco, but I don't think tobacco enhanced the effects nor my enjoyment of alcohol.

For me, the most pronounced effect by far was with opioids. It seemed to be synergistic.*

 

[jasperkent]

*(edit) PS--- I don't know if this is relevant, but I'm one of those people who always gets a stimulating effect from opioids, in addition to the euphoria. I'm not one to "nod." For me, opioids were work drugs-- both energizing and motivating.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Alcohol seemed to enhance my enjoyment of tobacco, but I don't think tobacco enhanced the effects nor my enjoyment of alcohol.

This is facts. I only smoke and want to smoke when I'm drinking. I quit smoking cold turkey 5 years ago, but started smoking again only when drinking about 8 months later. The two just make sense together. Probably because they're both highly toxic arseholes. Double negatives making a positive. Or killing you that much sooner.

As for euphoria.......I snorted some tobacco once (please don't ask and please don't do) and not only did the euphoria hit hard but I could barely see straight. If I remember correctly, my eyes started rolling into the back of my head. Ugh.

 

[jasperkent]

.....I snorted some tobacco once (please don't ask and please don't do) and not only did the euphoria hit hard but I could barely see straight. If I remember correctly, my eyes started rolling into the back of my head. Ugh.

Yeah, I did that old-fashioned dry powdered snuff when I was young. I kinda liked it, but it could send ya into a prolonged sneezing fit if ya snorted too much. And "too much" ain't much.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I did the old-fashioned degen snuff: dumped a bunch of loose tobacco from the bottom of my pack on the side of my hand in the sniffing bowl, crushed it up a bit between my fingers and sent it. I would say I regret doing it to this day (this was 20 years ago), but it was all for science and it sure as hell was an interesting result.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Yes. Many, many times.

I was a smoker throughout my use of, abuse of, addiction to, and abstinence from various drugs, including methamphetamine and cocaine. I always tended to smoke more while on stimulants, but I don't recall any boost to my subjective experience of the effects of those drugs. Neither did I particularly enjoy smoking any more than usual. It felt more like I just needed to be doing something constantly.

I suppose I might have been getting an effect that I was not aware of, but I doubt it. I'm quite tuned in to both my mind and body whether I'm under the influence of drugs or not.

Alcohol seemed to enhance my enjoyment of tobacco, but I don't think tobacco enhanced the effects nor my enjoyment of alcohol.

For me, the most pronounced effect by far was with opioids. It seemed to be synergistic.*

Your experience seems to reflect exactly what I’ve read in the scientific literature. apparently, long-term nicotine enhances the expression and function of a protein called CREBP in the brain. apparently, whilst high CREBP activity generally works against stimulant, reward/euphoria, it can paradoxically upregulate MU opioid, receptors and enhance opioid sensitivity and reinforcement.

 

[swimmingbird421]

I did the old-fashioned degen snuff: dumped a bunch of loose tobacco from the bottom of my pack on the side of my hand in the sniffing bowl, crushed it up a bit between my fingers and sent it. I would say I regret doing it to this day (this was 20 years ago), but it was all for science and it sure as hell was an interesting result.

For science!