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Misc Two separate questions on nicotine

N

Neuroprotection

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
1,082
apologies for the two unrelated questions I have, but I thought there was no point creating separate threads if the answers are simple and about the same drug.
Firstly, I want to know if people feel a strong difference between inhaling nicotine and taking it, orally/sublingually. I ask because in my own experience, oral nicotine pouches do often give me strong initial euphoria but then make me feel quite ill with dizziness, nausea and headache being the main symptoms. in contrast, smoking a cigarette or vaping gives me much stronger euphoria with none of the negative symptoms. yes, I find vaping extremely compulsive but interestingly The short-lived euphoria is followed by a nice afterglow.

Secondly, has anyone found that nicotine, taken in any form severely worsens caffeine withdrawal, especially the headaches. this is strange because if I’ve been completely off caffeine for a few days and no longer have withdrawals, nicotine feels much more rewarding and pleasant. on the other hand, if I smoke a cigarette or vape for my morning caffeine fix when I’m dependent on caffeine, I get severe migraine like headaches which have caused me to vomit on several occasions.
Thanks in advance for any answers.
 
i find that when i used to use the oral dip or chew whatever it's called skoal "by packing lip", i would get mildly dizzy and don't think i really got the stimulant edge of smoking a cigarette. definitely different. haven't tried either in a long time. was into skoal for about a year as a teen, but thought it was stupid after trying weed. i still liked cigarettes though.

i didn't really notice much of an interaction between nicotine and caffeine and used them daily for years. i liked cigarettes with coffee... like 4-8 hours after having a cigarette though i usually had a weird feeling on the outside of my head like a mild headache. this may've been more intense with coffee. not until i messed up my back getting hit by a car did i really get bad feelings from cigarettes. i would get a stabbing feeling in the top left side of my head at different times and pins and needles all over my body during when i smoked them. i can't really smoke cigarettes anymore. my back has healed a bit, so i could probably try. but after so much time being off them, i'll probably stay away from them.
 
Buccal route, snus, is far more euphoric, but even that tends to give me some anxiety. I commonly consider tobacco smoke just disgusting.
 
smoking forms some kind of compounds I never remember the name of, that do increase metabolism of caffeine.
 
Pissed_and_messed said:
smoking forms some kind of compounds I never remember the name of, that do increase metabolism of caffeine.
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Oh yes, I’ve heard about that. I think certain components of cigarette smoke, enhance CYPd enzyme system activity, which work to degrade caffeine and other drugs.
 
foodcrisis said:
i find that when i used to use the oral dip or chew whatever it's called skoal "by packing lip", i would get mildly dizzy and don't think i really got the stimulant edge of smoking a cigarette. definitely different. haven't tried either in a long time. was into skoal for about a year as a teen, but thought it was stupid after trying weed. i still liked cigarettes though.

i didn't really notice much of an interaction between nicotine and caffeine and used them daily for years. i liked cigarettes with coffee... like 4-8 hours after having a cigarette though i usually had a weird feeling on the outside of my head like a mild headache. this may've been more intense with coffee. not until i messed up my back getting hit by a car did i really get bad feelings from cigarettes. i would get a stabbing feeling in the top left side of my head at different times and pins and needles all over my body during when i smoked them. i can't really smoke cigarettes anymore. my back has healed a bit, so i could probably try. but after so much time being off them, i'll probably stay away from them.
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Sounds like you’ve been through a lot, sorry to hear that. But I’m glad to hear your back is recovering. I think it’s a wise choice to stay away from cigarettes since you haven’t used them for so long.
Personally, I’m not a regular smoker but due to my circumstances, I’m an opportunistic one, meaning I secretly smoke if I have the chance. I also really like vaping as it gives me a similar rush yet feels much cleaner than cigarettes. I was actually counting on oral nicotine pouches, which are very similar to Snuss as a way to be able to relatively harmlessly administer nicotine for the rest of my life. they do give me euphoria, but I just can’t take the side-effects of nausea, fatigue and headache. it is my brother who regularly offers me a nicotine pouch whenever he uses one and at first I would actually really crave them desperately hoping for the next offer. however, I slowly began to feel that The intense euphoria wasn’t worth the nasty side-effects.
I’m now done with nicotine pouches. it seems to be that if I want to enjoy nicotine, I need to inhale it, either threw a nicotine, inhaler, or a vape. however, since my family wouldn’t approve of me, vaping, does anyone know if there are odorless Vapes?
 
There are many odorless vapes. I like to vape and i liked "HEETS" (HEETING technology) more than cigarette. Smoked nicotine is instant spike in dopamine and endorphines but very short. Snuff ( something tobbaco was good suited for opioid high potentiation ) and this white little bags u put inside mouth are something like strong cigarette Extended release...but horrible for your mouth.
 
If it's my first nicotine of the day (usually within 5mins of awakening), any form -- whether cigarette, vape, dip, or gum -- will give me a nice head rush, euphoria, and stimulation for about 5 to 10 minutes. Cigarettes hit hardest, followed by vape. Dip or gum produce a milder sensation with less of a rush-- but they last longer. I feel no effects whatsoever from any of them after 20 minutes or so.

I can't answer the second question because I hardly ever go long enough without caffeine to experience withdrawal. On the rare occasions that I do, I don't have nicotine either.
 
I think I’ve just learnt a valuable lesson with nicotine in the past two days. I think less is more when it comes to this drug. I tried a very low strength nicotine pouch, (10 mg), today and I got a really nice buzz without all the nasty side-effects. The previous pouches I got off my brother contained 150 mg. furthermore, I made sure to remove the pouch after 20 minutes and wash my mouth out thoroughly. I believe many of the side-effects actually came from swallowing the nicotine as I remember something similar happening with chewing tobacco.
 
update on the effects of nicotine:
Since Ramadan started nine days ago, I’ve not consumed any caffeine and don’t intend to do so for the whole month. I have been using the nicotine pouches every night when we are allowed to eat. I seem to have developed tolerance to the nausea and dizziness, but paradoxically the pleasant effects like mood lift are getting stronger. that’s probably a combination of the disappearing negative effects unmasking the positives, as well as possible sensitisation.
As expected, without caffeine, nicotine feels much smoother and more rewarding. interestingly, I’ve noticed that nicotine is more of a reward stimulant/antidepressant with very little peripheral or even general mental stimulation.
This might sound a bit odd, but I generally prefer nicotine in the evening/night. It seems to give me much more euphoria and be more functional then with no side effects. meanwhile, nicotine in the morning, even when I was off caffeine, is more likely to make me feel ill and have diminished positive effects.
Caffeine is the opposite in many ways for me. I enjoy it best in the morning or midday and this is a strong, general mental stimulant with limited rewarding effects.
Therefore, I feel that caffeine is the best drug to take before going on a long walk or doing other fun activities especially on a weekend. meanwhile, I find nicotine is a better stress reliever which is a nice fast acting antidepressant to help me unwind from the tremendous stress of life and work.
 
The buccal route for me comes on slower, and is weaker than inhalation. I also get more nauseous. Smoking hits me harder, quicker, and makes me more dizzy.

Yes caffeine withdrawals are also made way, WAY worse for me with nicotine. The headaches become borderline migraines.
 
Kingoffrogs said:
The buccal route for me comes on slower, and is weaker than inhalation. I also get more nauseous. Smoking hits me harder, quicker, and makes me more dizzy.

Yes caffeine withdrawals are also made way, WAY worse for me with nicotine. The headaches become borderline migraines.
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Wow, you’re pretty much the same as me in regards to these effects. I wish I could find the mechanism of how nicotine worsen caffeine withdrawal especially the headaches.
 
Kingoffrogs said:
I think it has something to do with acetylcholine. I'm not sure though.
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Interesting. I’ve tried to search for the mechanism online but couldn’t even find any acknowledgement about this phenomenon of nicotine exacerbating caffeine withdrawal. is there any reason you think it might be acetylcholine signalling?
Just out of interest, have you ever used nicotine in a period of your life where you didn’t use caffeine at all. I am now on the 17th day of the month of Ramadan, a time in which I voluntarily completely abstain from caffeine to avoid dehydration and sleep problems. however, I do use nicotine if I have the chance because it doesn’t cause me those problems.
I’ve noticed that after the caffeine withdrawal past, nicotine feels strangely much more rewarding and pleasant in the complete absence of caffeine.
I just wondered if you’ve had a similar experience.
That’s not to say that the combination of caffeine and nicotine are necessarily bad, for me, they can produce a really nice strong stimulant effect. however, it is less functional and sometimes I feel like that euphoria is more shortlived.
 
does anybody know on average how long it takes to develop nicotine dependence? I ask because through the pouches my brother gives to me, i’ve been ingesting anywhere between 20 to 60 mg of nicotine every night since the start of Ramadan. It’s now day 18. I should also mention that for a few weeks before that, my brother had given me quite a few nicotine pouches containing 150 MG of nicotine.
Since I don’t have access to my own reliable supply of nicotine given that I’m blind, and my family won’t approve of me asking their help to purchase it, I want to avoid serious dependency for now.
So far, I’ve had no physical withdrawals or overwhelming, craving to use nicotine, but I do feel uncontrollably excited when my brother offers me a pouch. somewhat paradoxically, I’ve noticed that when I use nicotine now, the mood lift is stronger and more pleasant than it was a week ago. this is possibly sensitisation developing, an important component of addiction.
Finally, when I started this thread, oral nicotine would generally make me nauseous and want to throw up especially if I swallowed the nicotine. now, the nausea is hardly noticeable and sometimes doesn’t come at all.
Just wondered if anyone knows how close to dependence I am and whether it is worth stopping immediately. if that’s the case, do you recommend a long break from nicotine, e.g. a few months up to a year?
Thanks in advance
 
Neuroprotection said:
I’ve noticed that when I use nicotine now, the mood lift is stronger and more pleasant than it was a week ago. this is possibly sensitisation developing, an important component of addiction.
Finally, when I started this thread, oral nicotine would generally make me nauseous and want to throw up especially if I swallowed the nicotine. now, the nausea is hardly noticeable and sometimes doesn’t come at all.
Click to expand...
You said it right there.

Your body is adjusting to nicotine. Instead of reacting as it normally would to a toxin (nausea, urge to vomit), your nervous system is saying "This is good. More, please."

I don't know if you are dependent at this point, but you are certainly well on your way.

The good news is that nicotine withdrawal symptoms are 100% psychological. You won't get sick or get the tremors when doing without it. You may not even get cravings if you are distracted with other things and not around tobacco smoke.
 
Definitely on your way to addiction - it's clear. Even without your subjective experience illustrating it clearly, if we regularly consume addictive substances addiction is close to inevitable. Tolerance - dependence - addiction.

Honestly best advice would be quitr while you're ahead (or while you still can with limited headfuck)

When nicoone gets to addiction stage it's 100% waste of time - a truly pointless addiction that you get nothing at all out of apart from returning you to baseline. You basically spend half your life in withdrawal (begins a few minutes after injesting, via smoking anyway). It's also an absolute bitch to quit - completely dysphoric couple of months with lingering PAWS imo/ime

I've known numerous people quit opiates / alcohol etc who couldn't shake off the nicotine
 
Jen X said:
People get euphoria from nicotine? I never knew that. All I'm getting is a higher risk of dying
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Yes, you can definitely get euphoria from it. however, I think chronic users of cigarettes or Vapes lose the euphoria, but still have compulsive use of the drug.
The thing is, everyone is different and some people may never get euphoria from nicotine. I think dopamine release is responsible for part of the pleasurable effects of nicotine, but mostly its habit forming effects. I think certain opioid peptides when released in high quantities, might explain why some people get stronger euphoria and more tangible pleasure from nicotine.
 
ageingpartyfiend said:
Definitely on your way to addiction - it's clear. Even without your subjective experience illustrating it clearly, if we regularly consume addictive substances addiction is close to inevitable. Tolerance - dependence - addiction.

Honestly best advice would be quitr while you're ahead (or while you still can with limited headfuck)

When nicoone gets to addiction stage it's 100% waste of time - a truly pointless addiction that you get nothing at all out of apart from returning you to baseline. You basically spend half your life in withdrawal (begins a few minutes after injesting, via smoking anyway). It's also an absolute bitch to quit - completely dysphoric couple of months with lingering PAWS imo/ime

I've known numerous people quit opiates / alcohol etc who couldn't shake off the nicotine
Click to expand...


I definitely agree with all that you have said. although I love nicotine so much, I really hate it when people including some medical experts compare nicotine to caffeine, making outright false statements like “caffeine and nicotine are chemically similar“ or “caffeine and nicotine work very similarly on the nervous system“.
When I tried nicotine for the first time as a child, I knew instantly that this drug was serious. it is certainly nothing like caffeine in my experience.
Although I’ve never tried illegal drugs or even prescription stimulants, I imagine nicotine feels qualitatively much closer to those even if it is much weaker.
 
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