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Tripping Post Withdrawal? Active PAWS

Jabberwocky

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
84,998
Not really feeling physical effects from coming off opiates (kratom and oxy). But I’m subject to cry at the slightest things, not even really depressing things sometimes I just cry at the beauty and renewed love I have for life. But I am depressed, currently using Ritalin (illicit) so I know I’m not sober sober, but I plan to stop It tomorrow when I’ve accomplished a few crucial task needed to prep for the trip, (clean house, surroundings, trip room prepped with anything I may want or need. That said it’s alot work to keep up the obligations I have to do so until then I’ll use Ritalin. I bring this up, cause I’ve got caps that I wanna retry you all know more story. But I been purging some of my negatives before hand, as I feel if I can fix the things I have the ability to, it would help me have a better focus on what my trips telling me. The trip is going to be what it is, regardless and will tell me what I need to know. I just don’t know if a week of opiates is long enough to get my emotions back to a baseline. I am bipolar so withdrawal affects my depression and moods pretty badly. But I look at the positives and harness my moods accordingly so I manage. That said I don’t take any psych meds don’t intend to. When would you set the time frame for the trip? I’m still having a bit of lethargy and diarrhea from the opiates so I’m still pitching toxins and I prefer not to have mudbutt during my trip lol. Or could I be thinking to much, I’m gathering that for some bipolar people psilocybin can bring them to a baseline if used properly. I plan on a 2 gram trip that would be my lowest dose so I’m not totally scared but I’m nervous cause it’s been 10 years since I’ve been in shroom land. And I remember some things, mostly the bad thought loops.
 
Personally, the idea of tripping while still withdrawing sounds like a certain kind of hell. Closely followed by tripping on a comedown, tripping while hungover, generally any trip that begins in a place where you're feeling like shite. I would probably wait myself.

Ideally you want to trip while in good health and of sound mind, in a good place mentally. Diarrhoea, emotional lability, negative mindset... yeah, I mean, I know you want to trip on these shrooms, you've posted about it a fair bit and are obviously thinking about it quite a bit. It's always possible that the trip will go completely the other way and wipe out your withdrawal, this can happen, but I'd say it's not common... what have your previous experiences been like with hallucinogens? If they've all been revelatory and beautiful, maybe this one will be too. On the other hand if they've been frightening or sketchy in any way... well, you might want to take that into account.

If you were really through the withdrawal and just dealing with PAWS it would be different but to me it does not sound like you are through the withdrawal. I feel kinda bad sounding like a debbie downer here because I know you obviously want to trip but honestly, if it was me, I cannot in good conscience say that I would trip if I was in your situation right now. I'd wait to feel a little more emotionally stable... and also until my digestive system had calmed down as I wouldn't want to risk spending the entire trip on the toilet.
 
I am glad I grew up at a time where the term PAWS was not around. I think because of that everytime I kicked an opiate and was a month or two out I felt great, ecstatic that I took the bull by the horns and succeeded. So the terms HPPD and PAWS did not exist and it was almost better. At least for the notion of psychological expectation. It seems nowadays everyone expects PAWS as reality for everyone. I do not think I ever suffered from PAWS. Now HPPD, after my first trip I have seen patterns on walls ever since. 45 years. I love it. I look at it like this; you can see stars or you can go further and see constellations. So to me it is a good thing. But it could be that is not HPPD so I can not say. I don't see snow but I see the kaleidoscope images, especially after smoking some weed and have all my life. But PAWS never affected me. I always felt like "the man" when I did something that needed strength and I accomplished it.

In Dale Pendell's Pharmako book he talks of quitting heroin and then in the aftermath needed "vision". And psychedelics can give vision. I would imagine it is tricky though so careful. It can cut both ways. But feel better FF. I think if I experienced PAWS these days I would never make it. So you have some strength!!
 
Mushrooms don't sound like a great mix with withdrawals, since the mushies can make you nauseous and quite possibly amplify any physical effects (or at least amplify your perception of them). If you're able to postpone the trip at least a few days I imagine you'll have a more enjoyable time. Psychedelics aren't necessarily bad done after a comedown or hangover but you're basically creating an impediment to a positive set. Hope your trip goes well whenever you do decide to indulge!
 
May I suggest an alternative? I'm admittedly biased against psilocybin mushrooms, and generally more critical of psychedelics than the average poster. But there are two reasons why I'm thinking of ibogaine here instead. First reason is the common one, it's particularly effective for any opioid withdrawal that may be bothering you. The second reason is that it also looks promising for conditions like Parkinson's and ALS. This could be relevant because it appears bipolar has a neurodegenerative component as well, as indicated by the statistical link between bipolar and Parkinson's. In that case you should be better off targeting the preserving brain hormone (GDNF, ibogaine) rather than the growth hormone (BDNF, psychedelics). So that would be a double match.

Here's the page I'm drawing from: (more props to @mr peabody !)

PARKINSON'S | +50 articles

Radical Parkinson's treatment tested in patients by Alex Therrien | 27 February 2019 A radical Parkinson's treatment that delivers a drug directly to the brain has been tested in people. Patients in the trial were either given the drug, which is administered via a "port" in the side of the...
www.bluelight.org www.bluelight.org
 
Ibogaine I'd say in most cases is a particularly dangerous substance to attempt solo if you're going for a vision quest type of experience, although I know there are some pioneering and brave psychonauts on this forum who have done it. If someone is a little unsure about taking even mushrooms which are at least a fairly short lasting psychedelic compared to some, then ibogaine seems like a far more sketchy proposition.

That said - that's assuming an ibogaine "macrodose". While the benefits for Parkinson's and other neurodegenerative diseases occur at sub-hallucinogen doses, essentially microdose, and there may be some evidence to suggest that microdoses over a sustained period are also an effective way to treat opiate withdrawal. In fact the great Hamilton Morris proposed that quite possibly the only reason that macrodoses are the more common treatment for opioid withdrawals is due to ibogaine's illegality, which often requires people to take time away from their lives and travel to dedicated treatment centres, so there is an incentive to pack as heavy a dose as possible into the smallest amount of time. High dose ibogaine is not without it's physical dangers IIRC as well, with the potential to cause cardiac arrhythmias or even arrest in certain unlucky individuals.

So if the objective is to get over withdrawals, eliminate PAWS, or treat some other cerebral malady - microdosing over some period of time is probably a safe and still effective option, although I suspect many members of this forum will be interested in the experience of a full blown macro ibogaine trip on it's own merits, quite separately from any potential benefits... which I totally get, I am too, and hope I experience it one day. 😏
 
ibogaine is legal here in NZ as long as you have medical approval to treat opiate addiction. Though one mispractioner caused their patient to die on ibogaine here the person was on a cocktail of drugs when they arrived to take their trip though and the heart gave out. Ibogaine i believe should only be consumed with the purpose of treating opiate addiction.

My trips are not really fun when my body is feeling comedowns of drugs like mdma. Every sensation is amplified under psychedelics so you just feel very burnt out on the trip can be very uncomfortable. Though microdosing shrooms is what i used to treat my extreme mdma comedowns i had in the middle of the year it made each day more managble so maybe this could work for withdrawl aswell.
 
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