Transitioning from SARMs to Steroids. Overall thoughts.

[dannyrand1514]

I was told to post this message I sent as a new thread.

Message:
So I saw this post you made and was curious what type of results I can expect from running a cycle like this? I have ran several SARM cycles in the past, but want something that will yield better results. I am 5'9 179 pounds was at around 10-11 bodyfat whilst doing a lean bulk, however I am probably a bit higher now due an injury and not being able to workout. Have been training and actually following a program for a little over two years now. At the moment I am recovering from a herniated L2 disc, so have not been able to train for a while, pretty depressing. I am hoping to be able to start lifting again by summer time . Although, squats, deadlifts, and bent over rows most likely wont be in the picture. Anyways, I saw your post and was wondering how the cycle you provided would compare to an 8 week cycle of LGD at 5mg? If you dont know about LGD then how much muscle can I expect to gain on the cycle that you provided? When you get the chance get back to me.

Weeks 1-2 150mg Test Enanthate/Cypionate (split twice a week)
Weeks 3-4 175mg Test Enan/Cyp
Weeks 5-6 200mg Test Enan/Cyp
Weeks 7-8 225mg Test Enan/Cyp
Weeks 9-10 250mg Test Enan/Cyp
Weeks 11-12 275mg Test Enan/Cyp

Weeks 13-14 100mg Test Enan/Cyp


You won't need a PCT with this cycle, though you will need to have on hand some tamoxifen (or similar SERM) and/or an aromatase inhibitor (eg anastrazole, exemestane etc) in case you begin to develop gynecomastia or bad oestrogen sides. Also make sure you add 5g of taurine/day to reduce testes damage and speed recovery afterwards.

After going back and looking at pictures I was probably at 12% maybe 11% body fat during my lean bulk. In addition, I was cleared by a PT to do lifts that don't aggravate my herniated disc. As long as I dont do lifts that involve spinal flexion and excessive spinal compression I should be good. Did some leg curls, leg extensions, face pulls, chest supported rows and lateral raises today (if that is even relevant to this post). I haven't lifted in a while so I did what I could. Anyways, the temptation to jump on doing actual steroids is definitely there. SARMS are nice, but I know they are nothing compared to steroids (even in low doses). In addition, the more I research the more I realize if I am going to pick between orals and injecting, I should go with injecting. From what I can gather it is a whole lot safer than orals and I'm not trying to have my liver die on me just yet or ever. I am 25 years old btw and have done about 5 cycles of LGD. I follow a push pull legs routine I found on reddit. Its simple and balanced, which I like. I weigh and track my calories/ macros. I take in on average 3000 calories a day, seems to be my maintenance. I am trying to think of anything else that might be of any use to you guys. Oh lifting numbers. Here they are before i got hurt. Bench 225 for 5x5, Squat 315 for 3x5, Deadlift 375 for 1x5, Overhead press 145 for 5x5, bent over row 205 for 5x5. I think most of these number put me in the advanced beginner/ intermediate level for my height and weight. I cant think of anything else to add. I guess I am curious as to what should be expected from a first cycle and how it compares to a cycle of LGD or maybe the new DHEA based prohormones (if they even work). Feel free to provide your thoughts, experiences, and knowledge.

 

[CFC]

I saw your post and was wondering how the cycle you provided would compare to an 8 week cycle of LGD at 5mg? If you dont know about LGD then how much muscle can I expect to gain on the cycle that you provided?

Hi mate, welcome to BL.

It's not really possible for us to say how much you'd gain, because that depends very much on your genetics and the diet you use while on AAS, and also on things like the intensity of your training and quality of recovery/sleep. However, you should gain more than you did on LGD.

Have you read our introductory cycle sticky >>here<< yet? It should give you a low-down on the basics (you may already know much of it of course).

I'd also recommend you try to get close to your pre-injury peak before starting the cycle. That way, the gains you make should all be new tissue and you'll maintain a higher base-level once the cycle is over.

 

[dannyrand1514]

In terms of my gains on the LGD. Idk... maybe I got stuff that was under dosed? My understanding is that you should gain between 5-10 pounds during an 8 week cycle. Maybe I thought I was in a surplus and really wasn't. I was trying to put on as little fat as possible. Although, Since my first ever cycle I have put on some solid mass. Especially in my shoulders. If it helps I can provide pictures of when I was on cycle and where I am at now during my PCT. Although, I feel like my physique right now is pretty trash seeing as I haven't been able to lift for a while. And i can give you my calorie intake and exact training. To be fair I thought I was eating enough.

 

[RedLeader]

Don't most people run LGD for 10-12 weeks @ 10mg? I don't actually know if that is superior to what you did or if it is just the sellers trying to squeeze more money out of you. And if it's the seller telling you that you'll gain 5-10lbs, well...Supplement companies say the same thing about $100 jugs of fancy protein and it's all BS.

 

[dannyrand1514]

Eeh according to the moderators on reddit you can do it for 8-12 weeks. I decided to do 8 cause I got hurt and ran out of LGD. In terms of dosing, it seems there really isn't a huge difference between 5-10 mgs and yoh get diminished returns when yoh go above 10mgs. I tried 10 for a month but really didn't notice a big difference so decided to just go back down to 5mgs. Although I did notice more suppression sides at 10mgs, which seems to be on par with what others say. I mean it could have just come down to my training volume being Too high and I wasn't eating enough. Probably more so I wasn't eating enough. To see anything significant from sarms I feel like your diet and training really have to be on point. Maybe my regime just wasn't that in point? I'm tempted to try rad140 or yk11 (although the I think this is basically a steroid). Idk. I honestly would much rather just jump on a low dose steroid cycle. It seems so straight forward and the gains will me noticeable and obvious. I am also thinking about running 1 andro dhea this summer. They are legal and chances are I am getting what I purchase as opppaed to relying on a random research company.

 

[CFC]

My understanding is that you should gain between 5-10 pounds during an 8 week cycle

Unfortunately there's no such thing as 'should' mate. Anyone that tries to tell you even a ball-park figure for how much muscle you'll gain on any particular protocol (especially one who doesn't know you) is being dishonest. They don't know. I don't know. You will know once you've done it a few times, but it will only be relevant for you. Therefore, just get into the habit of comparing your gains to to your past ones.

As for the SARMs, who knows what you were sold. It may have been legit, it may have been pondwater plus placebo. That's the inherent risk of using any compound that hasn't been sent to a lab for analysis. You could repeat the experiment with the same compound from a different supplier using similar diet and training protocol and see how it compares that way.

If you'd like some pointers on diet and training, post up what you do. There's several knowledgeable guys on here with many years of experience with different protocols. And GF probably has more experience than all the rest of us combined lol

 

[dannyrand1514]

Good point. That is what I love so much about stuff like this. It's so individualized. All of it just fascinates me. But true the source could have been bunk. Although, I have heard several good reviews about the source I did use, so who knows. Ill try upping the dosage this time around. I was thinking of running 1 andro this summer to give myself a break from sarms and to see what the results are like. SARMs are so much cheaper, but if i have better gains with the new andros, may stick with them. We will see. In terms of training, Ill post a link to the exact routine I follow.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_progression_based_ppl_program_for/

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...NDKYPd5kzVjCJQ/template/preview?usp=drive_web

PPL routine from reddit. I really enjoy it and it lets me get in the gym 6 days a week without destroying my body.

Proper diet has probably been the most annoying aspect of all of this. I have been eating 3000 calories a day. It seems to be my maintenance. Macro nutrient split kind of varies, but I try to always get in at least 200g of protein and then 70-90 grams of fat everyday. I fill the reset with carbs. I used to barely eat carbs, this was like last year during the summer and fall. I just loved how lean I looked all the time. Progression was a little slow, but i stayed lean. But then I decided i wanted to gain more so I added in more carbs. Also, I do intermittent fasting. Makes my life so much easier in the mornings and I feel like I have better energy throughout the day. I am fine with slow bulking, while remaining relatively lean. I also tried a 3 week bulk with a 1 week cut. I read about it on reddit and was curious. But there are some who seem to think it is just a waste. I mean what has worked for you guys? Like do you stay lean year round or do you go through cycles of bulking and cutting?

 

[CFC]

Sounds like you're enjoying what you're doing, training and food-wise. That's really the most important thing. What are you hoping to achieve? 200lbs at 10%?

Diet is also a very personal thing. I've been lean on high carbs, lean on low carbs and lean on various IF strategies. I find it easy to stay lean on reasonably high carbs, possibly because I'm pretty sensitive to insulin. But I don't always like to eat that way.

When I'm bulking, I typically do long weekend cuts to shed 1-2% of fat and tighten back up, improve insulin sensitivity etc (a metabolic reset). It's a technique I started about 10 or more years ago, but I have to use drugs that I wouldn't recommend to a newbie. A 1-week cut should work equally well.

Regardless, I do go through cycles of cutting and bulking for sure, but prefer these days to remain in decent shape all year without wild fluctuations. I don't like getting too big anymore for a number of reasons like cardiovascular health, difficulty walking (legs too big), sores between legs and lats/arms (from muscles rubbing), sweating/body heat, the need to eat tons of food all the time, etc.

 

[dannyrand1514]

I mean do you think I could even get to 200lbs at 10% being 5 foot 9 inches without the use of steroids? 190 at 10% or below would be perfect for me.

Have you always been lean, even without AAS? I have never been super lean, I don't think I ever had a six pack in high school or college, at least not until I learned how to eat right. I feel like i have to work at increasing my insulin sensitivity. Whether through interval sprints or carb cycling. Thats what it feels like at least.

And I mean i need structure when it comes to training and eating. Im too ADD to just go into the gym without a plan. I tried that for years and I would just end up doing these absurd random workouts. Id go hard, but they just never amounted to anything. Once i started bringing an actually plan in with me and recording all of my weights is when i started to see results. But i feel like that is what all the most knowledgable people do.

And Long weekend cut sounds interesting, would like to hear more about this.

And a one week cut is fine? I have read so many mixed reviews and poeple saying that you just end up spinning your wheels. That you would be better off doing a lean bulk for 3- 6 months.. and then start cutting before summer time. But idk, I feel like i just gain fat and not muscle when i keep calories the same all the time, which is frustrating.

Then there is the thinking that is as long as you are in a slight surplus by the end of the week you will either gain or lose weight, and it really doesnt matter how you split up your caloires during the week.

I wish there were more studies done on this type of stuff. Maybe there are and I just cant find them. I dont know.

And i feel like staying in decent to good shape year round is a much more healthy approach. Not to mention ten times better for your self esteem.

Also, I am on the last week of my PCT. I know you are supposed to eat in a slight suprlus or at least maintenance during this time period. I wonder if i could try a one week cut next week to lose some of the fat I have definitely gained from not being able to lift and barely doing any physical activity.

 

[RedLeader]

If you are natural, you're going to want to rely on the principle of Progressive Overload to make most of your gains. This really is just slapping a label onto the whole idea of forcing your body to adapt to an increasing demand, and it's intuitive enough to people. "I want to increase my bench five pounds per month going forward" is essentially progressive overload. Of course strength and size gains are not linear but instead yield diminishing returns and we often hit plateaus. If you increase the weight by five or ten pounds as soon as you can do five sets of five, eventually you will run into a wall. You'll be stuck at 245 on the bench for six months, maybe even falling down after a few sloppy weeks. It happens to us all. But in general, the 3-8 rep range is where people best progressively overload.

I personally, once I really transitioned from training like a bodybuilder to a powerlifter, really got into Periodization as a way to break through plateaus. It's a slightly more complicated topic, and I won't try and summarize it here (look it up online), but it works better than the whole "when I hit x reps I will increse the weight". Like I have bounds on the big lifts (for example, around 1.6x bodyweight on bench) that I have to periodize my approach for a couple weeks/months to really get above.

Another thing that helped me was abandoning the whole "bro split" approach and converting to high frequency full body training. Like right now I hit one bench variation, one squat variation and one pulling variation (deadlift, weighted chin/pullups, rack pull, shrug, t-bar row) each day six days per week. Tonight, for example, I did four sets of three on squat, three sets of six on flat bench and four sets of five on barbell row. Was in and out in less than an hour. The body adapts and you won't "be too sore to do that again tomorrow" as long as you keep the volume (sets x reps x weight) low each day. It may not work for you, and you might try this three or four days per week (not six), but it's an alternative to the "kill it once per week really hard" approach that has more utility if one is on AAS.

This is not to say that naturals shouldn't also incorporates higher rep ranges, which builds muscle through something called Metabolic Stress ("the pump"). Training for the pump is another concept that really comes into its own with AAS, but a natural will hit additional muscle fibers (and each person has a unique ratio of slow/fast twitch fibers so some will benefit more from higher rep ranges....you just have to kind of figure this out for yourself unless you can actually get analyzed). I do a couple sets of high rep work at the tail end of my workouts. A lot of workout templates focus too much on pump-chasing as it gives the illusion that it is working better, and a lot of those articles are written by guys on AAS (but are not open about it) telling how they train.

As for diet, well I personally like to do 3-4 month bulks and 6-8 week cuts between the 10% and 15% bodyfat range. I've learned to adjust my deficit/surplus to this pace. So I will take four months to get from 10 to 15, and 6-8 weeks to go back down. I could go lower if I really wanted to, but I think 10% looks good enough. The reason I like the shorter approach is simply that I personally can hold onto and build strength long-term better this way. And it's easier psychologically, IME.

I do flexible dieting/IIFYM and just do it as "clean" as I can. Fix protein and fats around my bodyweight and vary carbs as I bulk/cut. The only time I ever mess with IF, carb cycling or Na/K is if I want to look really good one day a week or two out, and even I admit that a lot of those "results" might be wishful thinking (and I look the same to an objective observer).

 

[dannyrand1514]

Thanks for the helpful response, a lot more informative than those on reddit. Definitely familiar with progressive overload. Whether it be increasing weight or number of reps daily, weekly or monthly.

In terms of bodybuilding splits, I have never understood natural trainees using this type of training. I went to school at the University of Tampa to study allied health. Trying to be a physically therapist. Have since transferred and am studying exercise science. Tampa was a phenomenal resource for learning about nutrition and training. Dr. Jacob Wilson pumps out studies all the time. While I don't know if i agree with everything he says, he does have research to back up his claims. Anyways, it seems to make the most sense to train a body part at least 2 times per week as in a upper/lower split or a push, pull, legs split. Or three times a week as in a full body routine.

I follow a pull, push, legs that I do 6 days per week. It has by far given me the best balance in terms of my physique and allows me to hit everything equally.

In terms of rep ranges, I would love to get test to see what the ratio is for my muslce fiber types. From what I can gather most people seemed ot have about a 50/50 balance. But I notice that my body responds best to lower rep ranges. The 6 rep range feels awesome. Pump work does nothing for me except make me feel flat afterwards.

I do 5x5 for all my compound lifts and then 3x8-12 for my accessory lifts. Although I wonder what would happen if i changed the accessory lifts to 4x6-8. The only thin I am worried is using too much weight that it will hinder my progression on the compound lifts.

I guess in a way I follow IIFYM. I don't always just eat the typical "bro" foods. Although, I have been playing with trying to get at least 1g per pound in protein with only complete protein sources. So like dairy, eggs, and meats. And then the additional protein I get from grains and other sources I dont really count. Idk if that is obsessive or not haha

Do you have progress pictures by any chance?

Also, when you say natural, would using sarms and the new prohormones still be considered natural? To mee it seems like you stop being natural as soon as you start taking stuff that affects your hormones, but at the same time they arent close to what steroids can do.

 

[RedLeader]

^ I really like Bayesian Bodybuilding as an information source. I also like listening to Dr Mike Israetel for advice on periodization, training cycles and science-based approaches to optimization. If you are unfamiliar, check those out.

Specification is also an actual term for something that has given me troubles in the past. For example, if one wants to train to gain 50lbs on squat, how much work should be straight up back squatting, and how much should he stuff like box squats, front squats, paused squats, hip thrusts, bands, chains...you get the picture. Specificity is essentially the idea of how much you are actually working the authentic lift. I fall into the trap of seeing good arguments for a ton of variations and try and incorporate them all in some way, and while I progressively overload on each of the variations, I don't gain on the true lift nearly fast enough because I am not being specific. This is true for powerlifting training, but also true in a lot of those "confuse the muscle with ten exercises hitting it from ten angles" approaches in the magazines. I get how all of that has sex appeal, but IME I grow best when I train periodized (for me it takes the form of different rep ranges different days of the week), high frequency, low volume with high specificity.

When I try and do my accessory/isolation stuff in the 6-8 rep range, I find that a couple things go wrong...

1) Other muscles take over, as does momentum. Can I do dumbbell side delt raises with 30s? Yes, but my traps take over, I use momentum, etc. Sets of fifteen with the 15s or 20s is much more effective. Or I cheat on the tempo. If you cannot pause for a second on the reversal of the rep, it's too heavy.

2) I screw up tendons. I pretty much destroyed the tendons in my arms when I was younger ego-curling with bad form and heavy dumbbells. Even now, I go above 25s for curls and I get halting pain around my elbows. Not "no pain no gain" pain...just bad pain. I do all of my curling now on cables because it lessens the pain.

I do like pyramid-ing up isolation work, though. For example, if I were to curl the 20s for 12, 25s for 10 and 30s for 8...The tendon pain with the 30s would not be nearly as had if I had just picked up the thirties first and had at it. So I suppose there is that.

I did fall into the trap of too much protein when I was younger. Like 1.5g+/lb when bulking. And stuff like wings that was mostly protein and fat (and I do not store fat well...I don't get thick...I just get boobs and a pot belly with still skinny limbs). Driving protein down to 1g/1lb and taking that in instead as carbs helped a lot. I have a bit different hand I have been dealt than most guys...I am 5'5 and smaller-framed/boned. I have a men's physique build I suppose (wide shoulders, tight core, etc), but I would have to really jump on AAS to ever dream of even getting above 150lbs without looking fat. I have good genetics for lb/lb strength, but from a bodybuilding perspective, I just look skinny-ripped when I cut down. I can deadlift 3x my weight, but in some shirts I don't even look like I lift. So is life. I also have an extremely adaptive metabolism, where I cut in the mid 2000s but have to bulk up toward 4000.

As for being natural and SARMs, well if you want to call SARMs "hormone agonists" or whatever...I mean, you are introducing something not naturally produced by the body to trick the body into thinking it is receiving exogenous hormones...anyone claiming that to still be natural probably is trying to market to you. I get the seduction of wondering what's actually possible naturally and what genetic limits actually look like, but it can get distracting getting caught up in that. And with SARMs, that market really is wild right now. Lots of bunk stuff, some prohormones being substituted in (I have heard stories of companies getting stuck with huge amounts of PH due to law changes and just doing a switch out to avoid eating a loss, for example), even oral steroids being substituted in. And then just all of the shilling and negative advertising against one another by the big SARMs players...If a SARM shuts you down, might it instead be a PH or an oral? If you get no sides at all, did you get placebo instead of a working SARM? I would consider cycling them if money was not an issue and I could get them tested for purity and get blood work done, but, at least from my perspective, AAS is actually a more reasonable choice, if I were to make one, all things considered.

 

[dannyrand1514]

I know bayesion. Is that eric helms website??? I can't remember, but I have looked on there a bunch. Ill check out Dr. Mike. I have seen him on youtube a bunch, but have never watched any of his stuff. I really like eric helms and a new favorite of mine is Jeff Nippard. He supports literally everything with journal articles he finds, which I like. And he is open minded to numerous points of views and doesn't claim his technique is the only way to build muscle and look good. Smart kid for sure. Although, I do have a feeling he is on steroids, but I could be wrong.

Specificity aspect is interesting. So basically you would stick a certain rep range for a mesocycle? I think that is what its called. For example. Bench press, sqaut, and rows all done for lets say 3x12 reps. Do that for a whole month, then maybe 3x10 for a month, then 4x8 for a month. Although, you are saying your volume is pretty low, but frequency is high. Regardless that is still what Linear periodization is, correct?

In terms of the isolation work. These are exactly the type of things I am worried about. And I have had SOOOO many injuries. 4 Surgeris. Knee once, hip once, ankle twice. I played soccer all of my life. It runs in my family. My dad has like no cartilage in his knees. Most of my surgeries were because of injuries to the cartilage. And I am now recovering from a herniated disc. I just cant win haha.

Ive heard the same thinga bout lateral raises, however I just recently watched a video (by jeff nippard actually) and he talks about training the medial heads of teh deltoid. According to one study, more medial deltoid activation occured when using heavier weights with a slight swing to get the weight up. The eccentric portion is meant to controlled on the way down to ensure maximum muscle damage. Actually, I think I am going to go find that study right now, cause I have been trying to bring up my shoulders.

Protein intake has been annoying to asses with me. I typically get in over 200 grams a day. However, I have tried going through periods where I lowered protein to exactly 1g/lb and honeslty I feel weak and like I am losing muscle. I increased carbs to compensate for teh reduced protein intake and I dont know, it just didnt seem to work for me. Maybe I was doing it wrong or wasnt eating enough? I really dont know. I try to literally track everything, being somewhat organized with my workout and diet are like the only thing I am organized with haha.. Everything else I am just a mess.

The SARMS i have run, specifically LGD, I really liked. However, finding a good source is a pain. Steroids do seem like the better route. My girlfriend is so against them and says shed break up with me if i ever started using. I try to tell her they are safe if done correctly, but most of the world has been brainwashed to believe they are these horrible drugs that kill people. I think she also hates the fact I'd need to inject. Which to be honest, I think I would get used to it over time. I know that I am going to keep using some type of PED, whether it be sarms, prohormones, or steroids. I just know myself. A part of me wished I had never tried them, but then the othe rpart is so glad I did because it helped me to learn a ton about nutrition, proper working out, and that most guys who are ripped on youtube are taking some kind of anabolic. Not to mention they have helped my physique tremendously.

 

[RedLeader]

Helms is a part of 3DMJ. Bayesian is Menno Henselmans. I actually think that those two guys are good examples of a natural genetic potential after a decade of intelligent training. In terms of YouTube personalities, I actually have to suggest VintageGenetics (Wesley Vissers - a Dutch BBer in his early 20s). I just find the channel fantastic and entertaining. Start following it and you'll see. Nippard bothers me, but I cannot really put my finger on why exactly.

Yes, that is linear periodization. What actually works best for me on bench is something like the "Smolov Jr" layout. That layout has one bench four days per week. 6x6@70% of 1RM, 7x5@75%, 8x4@80% and 10x3%85%. And then the next week you go up 5lbs on each. So what I do is just take that layout and cut the volume in half. 3 sets of 6 at 70%, etc. I also own 1.25lb micro-plates, which have REALLY helped me at times. So I will go up 2.5lbs per week this way for 3-4 weeks, deload, repeat. As I said before, if I just went to the gym and "gripped and ripped," I'd plateau out around five sets of five with 205 with bodyweight in the low 140s. It wasn't until I started the Smolov Jr apporach to bench that I got up to at one point hitting 250 for a single( touch 'n go but otherwise no cheating) at 138lbs. I really (and I mean I REALLY REALLY REALLY) want to bench twice my bodyweight just one time in my life. But I just don't know if it is possible without AAS. Maybe on the decline. Floor presses and weighted dips have also really helped my bench 1RM.

But honestly, I don't do the same periodization (or any periodization instead of just basic progressive overload) on all lifts. My squat, for example, does not benefit from higher rep ranges like my bench does. 2-4 reps is the sweet spot for squats for me. If I can get four sets of four, I increase by 5 (or maybe 2.5)lbs and work up to that 4x4. I have tried Smolov squat and it just didn't really do anything good for me (and felt like too much...I fell out of position a lot doing it). I have recently started doing pin squats to help both my squat and my deadlift. I have a really strong deadlift, but my form, though not horrible, definitely shows that I have a much stronger back than legs. So I am trying to build my pin squat up over the coming months. I am lucky enough to have a dude as my coach who competed nationally in the 80s and set two state records. Crazy smart dude, but with a life motto of "If you don't get hip replacement surgery by the time you are 55, you are undertraining" (he got his done last year).

And yes, I will do 15-20 reps (between 70% and 85% typically) per exercise and have three exercises (a bench variation, squat variation and pull variation) each session. Six sessions per week. Takes 45 minutes unless I have to wait on equipment. Actually I am pulling two-a-days right now, where I go back to my other gym after work and do some hypertrophy/isolation/aesthetic stuff and then tan on their beds. Curls, tricep stuff, calves, hamstrings, delts, abs, obliques, etc. Again, no more than 45 minutes. Luckily, both gyms are 5-10 minute walks from my apartment, so it works out pretty efficiently. That stuff I pyramid up. So like 10 reps at 100lbs, 8 reps at 120lbs, 6 reps at 140lbs. Next time I do that exercise, 11/100, 9/120, 7/140. Then 12/100, 10/120, 8/140. Then 10/105, 8/125, 6/145. You get the picture. I know that I went from 8/140 to 8/125, but the positioning is different. I do obsess over programming to avoid things like that, but in the grand scheme of things I am slightly neurotic...

I do need to work on cycling my volume more, though. When I do mesocycles, I always am reverse-dieting (typically 50 more calories per week). Ideally, one would reverse-diet, step up weekly volume and step up PEDs in harmony (which is the point CFC always stresses) for best gains (due to the prolonged relative change).

With lateral raises, maybe the solution is to do some low rep and some high rep? I do this with calves, actually. Yes, I am on team no calves, but I do see something a bit better when I mix high (15-20) reps with low (6-8) reps, for example. When i do go heavy on lateral raises, I will do them one-armed hanging from the rack (or a smith machine, stripper pole...whatever is available). Ever tried this? Like right now I don't think I could do six reps with the 35s double-fisting, but I could do 1x6 @35lbs single-arm as described. Another variation that I really like is to put a bench to 45 degrees and lay sideways on it. Hug the bench with one arm and do lateral raises with the other. Start real low...like with the 10s...it is much more difficult. But you will really feel it hit the targeted muscle.

I gotta get off because my laptop battery is about to die, but I will try and reply to the last part of your post later tonight.

 

[RedLeader]

To add, there are a couple topics that have overlap. These include:

1) Slow/fast twitch fibers and the general spectrum of fibers and how they are recruited

2) Sarcoplasmic verses myofibrillar hypertrophy

3) Strength verses size progression

4) Response to exercise for natural verses PED A verses PED B verses...

Lots of interesting research out there on these topics and it's something that I want a better grasp of. I feel like I understand each individual discussion pretty well, but I want to better see the interdependence.

 

[CFC]

2) Sarcoplasmic verses myofibrillar hypertrophy

I can't remember if I posted up Greg Nuckol's article on this here before or not.

For anyone that wants an interesting read >>here<< you go anyway.

Synthesis of all this knowledge causes you to increasingly devalue simplistic single solutions like "tons of AAS make you huge" and instead appreciate just how complex and interdependent all these factors are.

However, if you do manage to get your head around it all, you better write a nice article for us!

 

[RedLeader]

Thanks, I will read that paper over the weekend.

I believe that the sarco/myo thing began as a convenient solution to why the biggest guys weren't necessarily the strongest despite the obvious correlation between big muscles and strong muscles, but kept introducing more new questions than answers.

 

[dannyrand1514]

To add, there are a couple topics that have overlap. These include:

1) Slow/fast twitch fibers and the general spectrum of fibers and how they are recruited

2) Sarcoplasmic verses myofibrillar hypertrophy

3) Strength verses size progression

4) Response to exercise for natural verses PED A verses PED B verses...

Lots of interesting research out there on these topics and it's something that I want a better grasp of. I feel like I understand each individual discussion pretty well, but I want to better see the interdependence.

1. Slow twitch fibers are recruited mostly during high repetition exercises correct? So 15-20 rep range or anything that lasts over 45 seconds? This is good, I am going to be tested on this at the end of this semester haha. Fast twitch rely primarily on the phosphagen and glycolytic system. So 1-5 rep range, phosphagen system. The 6-12 rep range relies on phosphagen, but then the anaerobic glycolytic system. Type IIa and Type IIb have the most hypertrophy capabilities compared to type I. This type of hypertrophy would be myofibril opposed to sarcoplasmic? Sarcoplasmic is more of the pump you get, so swelling of the muscle from increased blood flow and water???? Tell me if I am wrong.
3. So with this, I feel like if you are getting stronger you invariably will be gain size. Which is why the most sensible way to increase muscle size would be to increase strength. However, where does pump work come into play? Also, where does volume come into play? From the studies I have seen, volume appears to be the deciding factor in muscle growth. Higher the volume results in greater muscle size. Although, for me at least, I feel like I grow the most in the low to medium rep ranges and moderate volume. As soon as I lower the weight and increase volume, I lose size, or at least that’s what it looks like.
4. From my understanding, there is a big difference from muscle hypertrophy and muscle hyperplasia. Muscle hypertrophy is the enlargement of the of the muscle fibers whereas hyperplasia is the addition of more muscle fiber. Muscle hypertrophy is achieved through strength training. Hyperplasia can only be achieved through the addition of PEDs? I know there are some who say HGH and MK677 can do this, but only when used for extended periods of time. Theoretically, we all want muscle hyperplasia because it allows us to be stronger and grow more and hold on to our gains more??? Correct me if I am wrong. Do steroids cause hyperplasia or only hypertrophy?
5. So I found a new youtube channel Colossal Fitness. The guys are sponsored by EHP labs, which makes me believe they aren’t natural. However, in many of their videos, they look natural. So idk. There information and direction on how to properly do exercises seems legit Would both of you be willing to look at their channel? I am a form psycho, to me it doesn’t make sense to do an exercise if you aren’t doing it perfectly. So let me know what you guys think.
6. CFC I have a question in regards to PCT. During your PCT what should your calorie intake be? Maintenance ore even a slight surplus? This is What I have read and it makes sense because you are trying to hold on to the gains you made on cycle. However, at what point can you start to cut after your PCT? Should you wait a few weeks or can you start cutting as soon as you finish your PCT?

 

[CFC]

^^ I had a look at their videos. Are they teenagers? Anyway no, I don't think they're the best choice, some of what I just saw is ignorant. If you're looking for some decent channels, I would recommend either:

(1) Mark Coles or
(2) Charles Poliquin

The main point to bear in mind is that you shouldn't try to 'copy' anyone else's form really. As you become more advanced, you'll begin to realise that 'perfect form' is incredibly personal and relates to how it best feels to you and suits your physiology.

That means perfect form is whatever most strongly activates a muscle without putting that joint or muscle at risk of injury. Only you can know this. So while you're learning, you'll want to try lots of different techniques and approaches until you find what feels best.

WRT specific types of lifting however (say you wanted to get into competition PLing for example) you will need to ensure you do perform exercises within certain set limits. I'm sure RedLeader has some go to powerlifters he checks out.

Regarding 'PCT', whether you choose to take PCT drugs or not, I would advise the same approach:

(1) In the period before your cycle ends (while you're tapering down), you should also consider tapering down your calorie intake and training intensity/frequency. This is to prepare you for the post-cycle phase.

(2) Once the AAS/SARMs are out of your system, you should then start tapering calories and training intensity/frequency back up to balance homeostasis.

(3) So Week 1 you could eat an extra 250-500 calories/day (depending on how low you reduced them) and increase max weight used on training by 10-15% (I would suggest increasing weight rather than - say - number of sets or reps initially, which may boost cortisol a bit too much). This should produce a nice little anabolic rebound.

(4) Week 2 - another 250 calories/day. This time you could add another set to the big body parts, and maintain the extra weight added last week.

(5) Week 3 - another 250 cals/day. This time you could add another training day to the week, and do an all-body work out with moderate intensity.

(6) Week 4 - no extra cals. You could choose from increasing either: max weight used; total number or reps; an extra set on big bodyparts; or an extra session for the weaker bodyparts.

(7) You should have 'recovered' now. Time for you to figure out your new maintenance levels.

 

[dannyrand1514]

haha okay thanks for the honest opinion. I wasnt sure honestly. I was just watching them. Some stuff seemed okay. But then again, they sound kind of retarded. Also just watched Marc Coles. Definitely very legit. Ive seen his stuff before. Hes the man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQU-zWVVSuQ


Can you help me make sense of this video? Is he saying to increase calories from a deficit??? What exactly is he talking about?