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Too much Phenylethylamine (PEA)?

I have read this entire thread and I think there has to be a method to this madness.

The main thing would be taking care of the side effects with vitamins, diet, and or meds. And besides the addiction, I don't see why a PEA/selegiline or perhaps some other stimulating/euphoric combo can't be used permanently. 90% of the people on this forum are looking for just that, a good feeling you can maintain.

Now as a person with ADHD I was born with low PEA/dopamine levels with the cause not medically known. The way I see it is the body is just one giant bowl of chemistry soup which can be manipulated to an incredible extent.

If we focus more on chemistry than addiction why not find a permanent solution? Lets call the addiction a "transformation". Ignoring the possibility of stopping, and focus on long term effects. I have been taking methylphenidate since I was eight. I'm now 24 and depend on the medication just to maintain chemistry levels to that of someone without ADHD.

I'm not a chemist so I guess the main question is, can one maintain a mind of euphoria and stimulation for a lifetime without major side effects and tolerance? Even if you will die stopping the combo. If the answer is yes we should figure this out. So far methylphenidate is ok but is not cutting it.
 
The main thing would be taking care of the side effects with vitamins, diet, and or meds. And besides the addiction, I don't see why a PEA/selegiline or perhaps some other stimulating/euphoric combo can't be used permanently. 90% of the people on this forum are looking for just that, a good feeling you can maintain.
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There is no way that dosing this often with any stimulant could be sustainable--selegiline doesn't truly rectify any of the physiological mechanisms behind the development of tolerance and addiction. This entails that addicts will, at best, maintain a neurology close to their basal, pre-drug state.

ebola
 
I'm trying to "detox" from phenylethylamine, haven't used it in crazy high doses, but still been popping a gram every now and then while exercising over the last couple years, and my muscles/joints are getting sore from this lately.

Hard to explain, but maybe feels like PEA is being trapped in my tissues, acting like fragment of glass in the joints when I exercise! So no more PEA for me --
do you guys any suggestion that would speed up the healing progress?
The bad pain only happens when I exercise, and if I've taken PEA beforehand.

Before you suggest any substances, let me add that I've tried EVERY supplement in the book, and I' m not sure if any drugs would work in a constructive way ( ie NON addiciting)

The best thing I've found so far is high dose SAM-e, but it's not quite enough to really get that stamina back, when exercising.
Thanks!

edit: so basically I'm looking for any anecdotes of people getting better post pea (mis)use.
 
Yeah man, got my 90g PEA from a reputable supplier last week. Really gonna start the party-like celebrations if I can convince my psych on Thursday that I am depressed and need to be prescribed a daily dose of phenelzine.

This looks like an interesting thread but it appears to be blighted at least on the first page by peoples health & safety concerns for this combo.

Is there a reason why selegiline appears to be more popular than using a completely nonselective MAOI such as tranyl or phenelzine?
 
Is there a reason why selegiline appears to be more popular than using a completely nonselective MAOI such as tranyl or phenelzine?
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Two words: Hypertensive crisis.
 
I'm not sure on the exact science but from the information I gathered from the wikipedia website it looked as if the B isoform of the MAO enzyme was almost exclusively involved in the metabolism of PEA. If this is true then what possible bearing could a nonselective MAOI have in mediating hypertensive crisis. I know people on Nardil who actually enjoyed eating cheese. The hydrazines were removed from the market for different reasons of hepatotoxicity. It is tranylcypromine which caused hypertensive crisis if consumed with cheese. I consumed 30mg daily of the latter substance without cheese and had no such problems.
 
your PEA experience was like mine!

Hi Jim,

I came across your post about your experiences with PEA, the one where you at first recommended it with effexor and selegiline, and then 3 months later strongly opposed it.

I have a similar experience as yours. I went through years of depression, uncountably many drug combinations from all classes, and stumbled upon PEA + EMSAM as something that worked better than anything else ever had. At first. Unfortunately, I built up a tolerance fairly rapidly -- I guess my brain is just fried so badly that I can consume large quantities of this stuff, becuase at hte height I was taking over 15 GRAMS of PEA a day, obviously every few hours. I did this for a few months, and it eventually turned me hypomanic, and was pretty destructive.

But at the outset, nothing had resolved my depression like PEA did. I'm off of it now, have been "clean" for 6 months, but am feeling pretty bad. My doctor is trying hard to give me the good parts of my PEA experience with my current combo, 1000mg of buproprion, 1.5mg of mirapex, saphris, and carbamazepine for the bipolar, and adderall (i know, lots of stuff), but if you can believe it, it's still not doing it.

Strangely, Effexor was the first a/d i was ever on, was what launched me into my first hypomania years ago, but was also one of the most effective a/ds around. I think its interesting that its chemical structure is similar to PEA...i may go back on that, but right now we are trying to focus on dopamine/NE with bupropion, and my experience with Serotonin is that it can cause demotivation.

Anyway, this is long winded way of basically asking how you're doing now, and since you've had a similar experinece to me re: PEA, if you've ever found anything that has come close to replacing it or being as effective? I've tried pretty much everything...sometimes things work briefly, then fade away, othertimes they don't work at all, etc. I'd be interested in knowing if your explorations with meds or supplaments have led you to find something that works...perhaps our brain chemistry is similar given our reactions to PEA.

In any event, thanks for the post and I hope to hear back from you.


jim45 said:
Bluelight and readers -

I THOUGHT that by experimenting I would find a safe PEA/Selegiline dose/time regimen.

I'm methodical and know enough about pharmacology, physiology and neurology to be dangerous .

THIS STUFF IS NOT SAFE. I HOPE I HAVEN"t HURT or will hurt anyone by what I've written about PEA/Selegiline.

Otherwise, my final word after 3 months using the combo is......

STAY AWAY FROM IT.

I'm getting sores in my mouth from the extreme drying it causes, and regardless of how closely I follow my regimen and eat with it, sometimes I still have weird BP spikes.

I don't know what in the world I'll do without it. Never found anything as therapeutic for me as the combo.

I also kinda like life though and not having strokes from weird BP spikes or organ damage from fluid pressure.

Maybe....just maybe, if I can find a vasodilator and diuretic that will cancel out the vasoconstrictive and fluid retention properties of the combo, I'll write back.

Sorry all.

Jim
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happened to me too

this is exactly what happened to me. how are you doing now?

brahma_bull said:
I've been taking the PEA, Deprenyl combo for some time now and what began as an innocent thing turned into addicition where I'd redose the PEA, take capsules to work and split them up to get through the day. It's very easy to OD on this but fortunatelly Xanax 0.25 takes care of it rather quickly. I also pop 400 mg of Magnesium Citrate when I get this horrible headache.

I use it mainly to alleviate boredom, which is daily, but will stop once I begin working again in October.
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Well I havent got any intelligble answers to my questions except on page 3. I think im going to try and get some phenelzine when I see my psych today. I cant see that anyone would object strongly to this. I love the stuff since when you take it out the bottle it smells of roses. I will just adjust (ie titrate) the dose of phenelzine/PEA accounting for any possible risk of hypertensive crisis. Im usually fairly careful with this sort of thing but get carried away with it after a tolerance sets in and I start escalating my dosage to gross amounts.
 
PEA, MAOB, DLPA, smoking, etc.

smyth, i read your post on page 3. there is some literature about the combination of a MAO-B inhibitor (low dose deprenyl, <10mg/day) + DLPA as a treatment for depression. I once met a naturopathic psychiatric M.D. who had used this combination on herself for a period of time and it had effectively treated her depression. there are a few papers about this combination, but its not very commonly used these days at all. i have used it myself but found deprenyl + PEA to be much more powerful (so much so that i got addicted/tolerance built up and it ended up shooting me into a destructive hypomania).

i would say in my experience DLPA + MAOB is mild stimulant, similar to amphetamine, fairly smooth though. the studies have used varying amounts, titrate up to what you find effective i guess. essentially the DLPA you can think of as time released PEA, as it breaks down into PEA (some small amount) over time. i think it would probably help though to take the DLPA on an empty stomach with some juice.

in my experience, even with an MAOB inhibitor, the effects of raw PEA were very short lived and spiky. I had to redose every 3 hours or so in the height of my usage of it.

Let this thread know what you come up with.

Also, do you smoke cigarettes? I would be personally interested in the effects PEA or DLPA + MAOB have on your smoking behavior. I found that high doses of PEA alone or with an MAOB inhibitor dramatically curtailed my smoking...and i'm not responsive to bupropion at all. LIke smoking almost a pack a day, down to 4-5, within days. Totally curbed cravings, and I probably could have just quit (but stupidly i didn't and now off the PEA i'm still smoking up a storm). But that was only at the higher dosages. It felt both like my mind was too busy 'thinking' about other things to listen to the nicotine craving, and/or the dopamine was already so saturated that the nicotine reward wasn't necessary. In any event, it only occured at high doses that were borderline hypomanic, but I'm curious if the anti-smoking effect can occur in other people as well, either with PEA or DLPA+deprenyl, at more reasonable dosages.

Please let us know about your experiences ASAP!
 
phenelzine + PEA

oh yeah, one other thing to note, phenelzine itself metabolizes to PEA, at least a small amount of it does, i don't know how much, but given the very low concentrations of PEA you have endogenously, even a small amount of say a 90mg dose of Nardil would cause a meaningful increase in PEA on its own, esp. combined with phenelzine's MAO inhibition. but probably nothing of the magnitude you'll get with nardil + raw PEA. my suggestion would be to titrate slowly, and always test on empty stomach. like, let nardil get in your system for a few days, then try 50mg PEA, then 100mg, then 200mg, spreading doses out, until you get a response. let us know what you find out and how you feel.

Smyth said:
Well I havent got any intelligble answers to my questions except on page 3. I think im going to try and get some phenelzine when I see my psych today. I cant see that anyone would object strongly to this. I love the stuff since when you take it out the bottle it smells of roses. I will just adjust (ie titrate) the dose of phenelzine/PEA accounting for any possible risk of hypertensive crisis. Im usually fairly careful with this sort of thing but get carried away with it after a tolerance sets in and I start escalating my dosage to gross amounts.
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It was hard for me to talk to my psych yesterday. He started going off the walls at me when he found out about the list of herbal supplements that I was (or currently am) experimenting with. Then the conversation moved over to me wanting to switch from risperidone to haloperidol, to see what it is like. It took about 15 minutes of him saying how he didnt want to "rock the boat." On top of all this turbulance, I felt like it was not going to be possible to also say that I was depressed and could I have some Nardil please, because he was having fits and was clearly not happy with the way I was living my life.

It may still be possible if you are 'only' depressed to pick up a prescription of Nardil much more easily, but once u get diagnosed schizo their whole attitude is shifted over what the appropriate course of therapy should be.
 
Hey all, i discovered nootropics when i was researching ways to increase duration of focus for very long periods of study/reading.

24 years of age, 5'3 and weigh approximately 130pds. I am an avid runner(love marathons and training, last had PR of 2:56) and a physically demanding job as head nightstocker at a grocery store.

I stumbled upon my now considered stack of selegiline 5mg, 500mg pea, 100mg phenylpiracetam, 200mg picamilon, and 1g choline bitartrate. Taken with caffeine and fairly empty stomach , this combo works very well for me in so far periods of 6-10+hours of studying.

30min after initial 5mg selegiline is when I take all others mixed with water. taste is bad, but goes down easy. usual redose is same concentrations (without selegiline)spaced 3-4 hours apart depending on mood/feeling.

I started using this combo twice a week for 3 weeks about a month ago. Just recently i began taking this combo for a week straight, this is my 7th day today(also added second pill of 5mg dose, today trying to focus for 10+hours). I have had no feelings of needing to up dosage, however i feel that im becoming partly dependent already.

Classes for me will begin in a months time, i plan to stop using this combo until then to have an idea of this combo's downfalls and addictiveness.
 
1. Selegiline is an irreversible inhibitor, so there's no need to time dosing by letting the selegiline 'kick in' first.
2. For most people, your chosen dose of PEA would be dangerously high.

ebola
 
thinking about the role of long term potentiation and glutamate stimulating depolarization and successive proliferation of new neral connections. How does taking dopamine releasing and gaba like substances like picamilon work in terms of memory formation. If some maoi's or antidepressants can increase production of brain derived neurotrophic factor, and dopamine and gaba act as hyperpolarizing molecules, then how can taking these types of substances help learning and or memory formation?
 
D1-like receptor activation in the PFC will promote aspects of cognitive control, and consequently facilitate learning/memory formation. Besides that, working memory is a component of cognitive control.

Too lazy to reformat the wikitext, so you'll have to deal with the odd syntax that follows. See the textbook quote; the review is also relevant.

[h=2]3 Drugs[edit source | editbeta][/h][h=3]3.1 Stimulants[edit source | editbeta][/h]See also: Yerkes–Dodson law
Certain stimulants will enhance cognition in the general population, but only when used at low (therapeutic) concentrations.[19][20] Relatively high doses of stimulants will result in cognitive deficits.[19][20]



The following are references [19] and [20].


<ref name="Malenka_2009">{{cite book| author = Malenka RC, Nestler EJ, Hyman SE | editor = Sydor A, Brown RY | title = Molecular Neuropharmacology: A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience | year = 2009 | publisher = McGraw-Hill Medical | location = New York | isbn = 9780071481274 | page = 318 | edition = 2nd | chapter = Chapter 13: Higher Cognitive Function and Behavioral Control | quote=Mild dopaminergic stimulation of the prefrontal cortex enhances working memory. ...<br/>Therapeutic (relatively low) doses of psychostimulants, such as methylphenidate and amphetamine, improve performance on working memory tasks both in in normal subjects and those with ADHD. Positron emission tomography (PET) demonstrates that methylphenidate decreases regional cerebral blood flow in the doroslateral prefrontal cortex and posterior parietal cortex while improving performance of a spacial working memory task. This suggests that cortical networks that normally process spatial working memory become more efficient in response to the drug. ... [It] is now believed that dopamine and norepinephrine, but not serotonin, produce the beneficial effects of stimulants on working memory. At abused (relatively high) doses, stimulants can interfere with working memory and cognitive control ... stimulants act not only on working memory function, but also on general levels of arousal and, within the nucleus accumbens, improve the saliency of tasks. Thus, stimulants improve performance on effortful but tedious tasks ... through indirect stimulation of dopamine and norepinephrine receptors.}}</ref><ref name="Continuum" /><ref name="cognition enhancers">{{cite journal | author = Bidwell LC, McClernon FJ, Kollins SH | title = Cognitive enhancers for the treatment of ADHD | journal = Pharmacol. Biochem. Behav. | volume = 99 | issue = 2 | pages = 262–274 |date=August 2011 | pmid = 21596055 | pmc = 3353150 | doi = 10.1016/j.pbb.2011.05.002 }}</ref>
 
Half a gram of PEA? That's hard to imagine, unless you're literally taking it at the same time as the selegiline, in which case it should be mostly absorbed and metallized before the selegiline takes effect. However, after a week of use, that's obviously not happening.

You're taking an extremely high dose of PEA. I had a bad overdose with about half a gram, maybe three quarters.
 
I've taken pea 500mg while on the 9mg emsam patch, don't do this. I felt the headache the back of the head reminiscent of a hypertensive crisis. Importantly, I titrated up. It became very moreish and wore off in about an hour. Needless to say I chucked that shit. It's extremely addictive taken this way. There are stories across the internet of people becoming hopelessly dependent on this combination, and feeling depression months or years later. Stick with the safe stimulant if anything: caffeine.
 
LuxEtVeritas said:
indeed as you are a bright guy I would think you would note this is clearly abusive use of a potent stimulant substance and isfairly akin to abuse of course of the more common stimulant amphetamine and meth and has many of the same pitfalls enherent to their abuse
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im trying to find accounts of pea addiction but cant seem to find any..its similar to amphetamine withdrawals?wouldnt it be a pretty easy and short withdrawal though considering its very short half life?
 
Newmoonrecord said:
the chocolate thing? I wasnt being super serious about it. I wouldnt recommend it as a mood booster. You have to eat a lot of chocolate to even make a weak distant approximation of taking pea capsules frequently. The mescaline thing on the other hand, is interesting but perhaps less practical.
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PEA content of dark chocolate can be as high as 0.7% -- so a 100 gram bar of dark chocolate could contain 700 mg of PEA (100,000 milligrams = 700 mg at 0.7% ). I know people who eat a 100 gram bar of dark chocolate every day.

That's the exact weight of a Lindt chocolate bar.

Marie Calment (oldest living human) used to eat a kilo a week -- that's 300 grams a day
 
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