Bupe Told My Bupe Doc That the Bupe Dosages Commonly Scripted are Unnecessarily High

[SkagKush]

haha, first time ive seen this thread.....

i highly agree with the OP

 

[haden]

TO THE OP

I totally understand the value of honesty between a doc and a patient, and that part of bupe therapy is the patient stopping addictive behavior such as doctor shopping, copping on the st., etc... This is probably going to make someone mad but...

I think it's foolish to tell your doc that, because it's really nice to be able to stock up extra meds in case of an emergency. Like if your doc suddenly went out of business or cut you off or something, that extra supply of bupe you've been saving could really come in handy. I have noticed that methadone, bupe, and chronic pain patients often fail to plan for these kind of emergencies.

I can understand if it is an issue of morality or something, but if too many bupe doctors catch on to the fact that their patients often take less than they are prescribed and stock up on their pills, it will ruin bupe therapy for patients (while they may be rare) who need a higher dose of bupe.... Or those who like to stock up their meds...

just a thought

 

[Kudders]

I started on Tuesday and straight up told her I ONLY need a low dose. So i'm at 2mg 2xday. That almost seems like alot, but I definately want to do it correctly and find out what is the best stabilization dose. I tend to maintain for awhile through outpatient treatment and get off of sub asap.

 

[jamesBrown]

I started on Tuesday and straight up told her I ONLY need a low dose. So i'm at 2mg 2xday. That almost seems like alot, but I definately want to do it correctly and find out what is the best stabilization dose. I tend to maintain for awhile through outpatient treatment and get off of sub asap.

I always advocate very low dose suboxone maintanence and your right, 4mg's a day still seems pretty high in my opinion.....but, I personally dont see anything morally wrong with not having your doctor put you on a low dose, and get whatever she scripts you(probably 12-32mg's) and then just take only like 2mg's a day and save the rest. Very quickly(maybe even after only one or two visits depending on how many pills you want) you could just stop going to the sub doctor because you have stockpiled so many pills and are on such a low dose, you could just maintain on subs how you feel works best, and also taper off in a much better way because most doctors force patients to jump off at like 4mg's or more sometimes....its insane.
Think about it, if you were prescribed like 24mg's a day(which ALOT of peopole are) but only took 2 mg's(if not liess) then that would leave 22mg's/day you save, so after the first month/script, you should have about 680mg's saved up, give or take a coupe mg's. And if I did my math correctly, 680mg's of sub, ona daily dose of only 2mg's would last you about 341 days...almost a year....and thats from your first prescription alone. If you went a second time to your sub doc, and got yet another script, you could do the same and the number would be doubled and you would have about 2 years worth of suboxone saved up.....and of course, you might decide to lower your dose even more down the road(which is what I reccommend...about 0.5-1mg/day) and in that case, the subs would last you much longer. maybe years.
Thats just my thoughts, and also what I have done myself. I think it is less of a moral problem because of how little these doctors understand about suboxone and how to taper you correctly, and what dose to keep you at. Im actually suprised that your doctor agreed to only give you 4mg's/day because thats pretty much the threshold to where you can take full agonists only a couple(or maybe a few depending on the persoon) hr's after your last dose. I know that when I was taking about 1.5-2mg's/day(sometimes more) I could take a full agonist almost at any time with little blocking effects from the subs. Maybe you dont want that I dunno, but I knew I could trust myself and Ive only used full agonists while on suboxone very few times the entire time I was on subs, and it definitely wasnt because I hjad an urge to use or soemthing, it was either because I was just bored and had an opportunity that worked great around my drug testing schedule, or it was because of horrible pain I was in. Either way, I never used heroin or oxy while on subs because I couldnt resist temptation....and to be honest, I really didnt enjoy it that much, I mean, it still felt the same as back before I was on subs and was using everyday, but I just didnt enjoy it like I use to...I think that was because suboxone gave me time to realize whats really important in life and using hardd drugs like that kind of disgusts me for some reason, and im not exactly sure why. Sry for talking about a bunch of shit no one cares about.

Just a little advice I think might help. Good Luck

*I was in EXTREMELY intense pain when I wrote this so I apologize if my math is off, but I think i did allright.

 

[Kudders]

I started on tuesday and straight up told her I want a low dose maintenance for a few months, along with outpatient treatment, considering i've used any and all opiates i've obviously used suboxone before this...I know I don't need much...i think some peeps ask for high doses because the higher the number the more you get, like opiates, but it's not at all. The ceiling effect for sub stops at like 24-32mgs or so....can't keep going after that it's pointless...i've also read you get more of a 'glow' or 'high' from low doses of bupe....

 

[jamesBrown]

I started on tuesday and straight up told her I want a low dose maintenance for a few months, along with outpatient treatment, considering i've used any and all opiates i've obviously used suboxone before this...I know I don't need much...i think some peeps ask for high doses because the higher the number the more you get, like opiates, but it's not at all. The ceiling effect for sub stops at like 24-32mgs or so....can't keep going after that it's pointless...i've also read you get more of a 'glow' or 'high' from low doses of bupe....

Thats exactly what I was talking about. But I also was saying that there is notihng wrong with getting presribed a high dose and then only taking like 2mg's/day or whatever you choose to take, and then have a shitload of subs leftover for later. If you read my math up there, if you were prescribed 24mg's/day but only took 2mg's/day you would have saved up enough suboxone to last you a year after only a month(your first script)....and if you went back to the doctor and got another 24mg script, thtas a whole other year of subs you will have stockpiled. Then you can drop the doctors visits which cost ALOT of money and maintain yourself. Maintaining on subs is extremely easy. You really dont need a doctor watching over you all the time and drug testing you.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^saying there is NOTHING wrong might be a bit far... here are a few *possible* drawbacks to this behavior...

-the doctor finds out the patient isn't taking the full dose via urinalysis and cuts him off (in some areas, there aren't other doctors who could prescribe to the patient)
-people who otherwise would have gotten off the drug much earlier stay on it because its there and they have so many thus arresting/slowing their development of alternative coping mechanisms for psychological issues
-people in need of cash divert some or all of these excess pills which realistically could result in more stringent prescribing practices (such as daily clinic administration instead of free-floating prescriptions)

These are just a couple quick examples off the top of my head. I certainly see how your suggestion could have BENEFITS as well, I just thought saying there's NOTHING wrong was a bit of an exaggeration.

 

[mymindisgoo]

i agree about the over prescribing. personally on an 80mg habit i'd take 1 -2 mg when i was getting sick. in rehab they were giving me 16mg daily. since i knew that was way too much i only took 4mg a daily. how ever one day i decided to take the full amount to see what would happen. i got real sick, shivering, white as a ghost, drowsy, and just went to sleep. after that i refused the meds and felt fine anyway..

 

[jamesBrown]

^saying there is NOTHING wrong might be a bit far... here are a few *possible* drawbacks to this behavior...

-the doctor finds out the patient isn't taking the full dose via urinalysis and cuts him off (in some areas, there aren't other doctors who could prescribe to the patient)
-people who otherwise would have gotten off the drug much earlier stay on it because its there and they have so many thus arresting/slowing their development of alternative coping mechanisms for psychological issues
-people in need of cash divert some or all of these excess pills which realistically could result in more stringent prescribing practices (such as daily clinic administration instead of free-floating prescriptions)

These are just a couple quick examples off the top of my head. I certainly see how your suggestion could have BENEFITS as well, I just thought saying there's NOTHING wrong was a bit of an exaggeration.

I was kind of just making a blanket statement.

I really dont have the energy to talk about every single possibility or detail, I guess I just assumed that even a slightly intelligent adult could figure out that there are possible downsides to pretty much everything in this world.

Also, I was more referring too the moral aspects of getting prescribed a high dose but only taking a small dose, rather than the actual possible consequences of that action(which there are probably an infinite number since thats just how our universe works and anyone could come up with ANY possible consequence for ANY action anytime).

 

[SkagKush]

^ ya i dont really see any positive side to saying anything..... acquire extras and smile the whole way through the appt....haha.....

unless your struggling.....

 

[Kudders]

yea i wouldn't mind the extra, but i only want to be on this med for so long

 

[jamesBrown]

yea i wouldn't mind the extra, but i only want to be on this med for so long

from your post I can tell even you arent sure how long you want to be on subs, and therefore, you might not want to make decisions or say things based on that unknown factor.

You said, I only want to be on this med for "so long", which isnt a time period but is in fact, a way to get out of saying an exact or approximate amount of time that you dont know. That is why I think saving up the subs cant hurt.
And besides, even if you save up 2 years worth of pills after only two visits to the doc, you could quit using subs anytime you want(next week if you want) and then throw all the subs down the toilet. Or do anything else you want to do with them...build a house using glue, I dont know, but my point... is it doesnt hurt as long as you dont go to your doctor and say "hey!!! Ive been savin my pills up!!".....or go off and sell some pills and get arrested or some shit.....those are bad ideas.

 

[SubDude]

^saying there is NOTHING wrong might be a bit far... here are a few *possible* drawbacks to this behavior...

-the doctor finds out the patient isn't taking the full dose via urinalysis and cuts him off (in some areas, there aren't other doctors who could prescribe to the patient)
-people who otherwise would have gotten off the drug much earlier stay on it because its there and they have so many thus arresting/slowing their development of alternative coping mechanisms for psychological issues
-people in need of cash divert some or all of these excess pills which realistically could result in more stringent prescribing practices (such as daily clinic administration instead of free-floating prescriptions)

These are just a couple quick examples off the top of my head. I certainly see how your suggestion could have BENEFITS as well, I just thought saying there's NOTHING wrong was a bit of an exaggeration.

I especially agree with the part about the need for cash. The end result could easily be jail, robbery... etc The later, if the wrong person finds out. Just knowledge on the street that you're on subs catches the attention of active opiate addicts and recreational users. Not much good can come from that unless used as an example to follow. I much prefer anonymity.

I also had stockpiled and made the mistake of casually mentioning it [after smoking some pot] to an old friend whom I trusted. He later told someone who told another and the next thing i know... I get a call from some dude I hadn't seen in yrs wanting to "buy all I have".

So now I'm wondering who else may know and what the potential consequences could be?? Long story short... I decided to flush all but a few. However, the word is already out there and all it takes is for one desparate junky to know and act on it... I guess the old cliche about "loose lips sink ships" applies. I think many of us sometimes say things we later regret after getting on a good buzz. That could be dangerous with this kinda info in the wrong hands. I take some comfort with a Glock 35 in my nightstand...

I also believe one of the main reasons for RB's success in marketing these new strips is because of stockpiling and sales of the tabs. The point already made regarding stringent prescription practice.. is well taken.

Anyway, in the past, I also advised a few here to save some for emergencies. From now on... I'll include the caveat to keep their mouths shut about it... if they do.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

^ totally agree with the "don't tell anyone"..
it goes perfect with my quote for my profile, "don't trust anyone, not even yourself" because you can't trust the people who find out you have it, and you can't trust yourself to keep it to yourself.

i suggest if anyone IS in fact saving up extras of ANY controlled drug to keep their mouth shut about it. You WILL regret it later if you don't .

 

[jamesBrown]

^ totally agree with the "don't tell anyone"..
it goes perfect with my quote for my profile, "don't trust anyone, not even yourself" because you can't trust the people who find out you have it, and you can't trust yourself to keep it to yourself.

i suggest if anyone IS in fact saving up extras of ANY controlled drug to keep their mouth shut about it. You WILL regret it later if you don't .

Of course if you have ANY significant amount of ANY drug in your posession then you never should tell anyone. But that shouldnt always deter you from saving your bupe pills up for your own benefit, because like I said, Ive read dozens of posts on BL about people who were on sub maint. and there doc decided to taper them quickly to like 2-4mg's(not to mention the high dose they were on the whole time which is rediculous) and then cut them off, leaving them to deal with a HORRIBLE long lasting withdrawal and then an even longer PAWS(which the doc said wouldnt happen almost every time). There is definitely benefit to saving the pills, just use common sense and dont be stupid. Why would you bother telling anyone in the first place you have pills saved up?.....unless you are planning on selling them or like getting robbed.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Of course if you have ANY significant amount of ANY drug in your posession then you never should tell anyone. But that shouldnt always deter you from saving your bupe pills up for your own benefit, because like I said, Ive read dozens of posts on BL about people who were on sub maint. and there doc decided to taper them quickly to like 2-4mg's(not to mention the high dose they were on the whole time which is rediculous) and then cut them off, leaving them to deal with a HORRIBLE long lasting withdrawal and then an even longer PAWS(which the doc said wouldnt happen almost every time). There is definitely benefit to saving the pills, just use common sense and dont be stupid. Why would you bother telling anyone in the first place you have pills saved up?.....unless you are planning on selling them or like getting robbed.

^ that was my point. i wasn't saying not to do it, i was saying do it on the DL if you must.. and deff don't announce it over the internet on a public forum, that's just dumb. it is fine talking about it, just don't incriminate yourself by saying you are doing it.

 

[SkagKush]

i agree, do so on the DL if need be, and even then dont be specific....like i got 50 in my dresser, but id say "ya man i got a few laying around".......

i have not had to do this thus far.....and i plan on using them for myself, on the flip side hopefully i wont need them.......

 

[SubDude]

Of course if you have ANY significant amount of ANY drug in your posession then you never should tell anyone. Why would you bother telling anyone in the first place you have pills saved up?.....unless you are planning on selling them or like getting robbed.

Hmmm... I believe at one point you were giving away subs to a couple of fellow addicts. Passing around free subs clearly indicates you have more than you use. In fact, actions/behaviors usually have much more influence on others than words. Even though you might trust those two... you have no idea what they do or where they go 24/7.... or who thay speak too and what they say. In other words, your action could easily lead to an even worse case scenario than my casual conversation.

That being said, an addicts lifestyle is also indication [to other addicts] if they have something worth taking. I live in an upscale neighborhood and drive a late model [relatively]expensive car.... among other things. This added to my concern of this persons 2nd hand knowledge of my situation. You obviously don't have those added factors to worry about... based on prior discussions.

BTW... perhaps I wasn't clear in my previous post. I simply mentioned [to my friend] i used less than prescribed, which allowed me to keep some extras in case of emergency. Not that I wouldn't have given more details if he asked... I doubt it though? The problem is that no specifics [talk of large amounts]were needed for the undesired info to spread further that I wanted. All that was known is I had more than I used... just like you.

The point being... no one has control over the behavior of others and what they might do or say. Especially when/if they become desparate... as addicts often do...

 

[jamesBrown]

Hmmm... I believe at one point you were giving away subs to a couple of fellow addicts. Passing around free subs clearly indicates you have more than you use. In fact, actions/behaviors usually have much more influence on others than words. Even though you might trust those two... you have no idea what they do or where they go 24/7.... or who thay speak too and what they say. In other words, your action could easily lead to an even worse case scenario than my casual conversation.

yea i do give subs to two serperate friends of mine. And I believe I saved there lives, or atleast prevented them from going to jail. I knew the risk I was taking. it was worth it too me though. But if I had no reason to tell them about my subs, I wouldnt have....but I didnt want to pas up the chance to help my friends.

*And actually, one of the friends I have been very close friends with for about 7 years, and I trust him completely(even though as you said, people can steal from you, and you never know who it could be, and I believe thats completely true), and the other friend is really more my friends friend who I hung out with sometimes and was sort of friends with. I actually just give the subs to my close friend and he gives the subs to the other guy and tells him he gets them from some random guy. Ive even been there when he was handing them to him and he ad no idea thye came from me.

But I still agree, since I allowed that information to be "put out there", its always possible something will happen, but I just trust my friend enough and also thought it was worth the risk to help 2 people at the same time. Both people have quit using just like I did and now only smoke weed once in a while, and hold down jobs, and are just overall better and happier people. And trust me thats a HUGE difference because they use to be just ugly disgustign junkies who would do anything for a fix, etc...you know the deal.

 

[SubDude]

^ OK then... good job and would seemingly be worth the risk.