Bupe Told My Bupe Doc That the Bupe Dosages Commonly Scripted are Unnecessarily High

[jamesBrown]

^ OK then... good job and would seemingly be worth the risk.

yea, because even if one of them "tells" on me I could just simply deny ever giving them pills and since they have no proof that they got the pills from me I would be covered legally. And im not worried about them getting stolen cuz my friend doesnt know where I keep them. I hide them and have them in my pocket like 95% of the time along with my klonopin(my savior pills). And that 5% of time I dont have them on me, they are hidden in a spot that not even a cop couldn't find(except with a drug dog trained to smell bupe). Thats kind of my little hobby, or not hobby, i dunno, im just really good at finding hiding spots for things I need hidden. Allthough ive never thought about going into the drug smuggling business. Well, I use to move a small amount of this or that across the border but that doesnt count. Im talking like big time.

Anyway, im also at even less of risk because im giving them free pills to stay clean. They got a sweet deal and know how expensive these pills are after the doctors appointments, drug tests, pharmacy fee's, etc.....they dont wanna ruin any of that.

 

[krazikomi]

Yea it is absurd how much of this stuff they prescribe, and there being little to no alternate, aside from subutex (which my sub doc does not write for due to diversion and mainly imo i bet he gets major kick backs from r & b). I like many on here was prescribed a stupid high dose 24 mg a day!!, i only took 2mg a day and felt great, i was able to easily taper using the 4 day at a stable dose then taper by 25% every four days down to less then .5mg and then i started to skip days. That worked flawlessly, and i was able to stock a lot of suboxone, my problem is that i had a major relapse, and i used and traded much of my meds for better drugs, ei. ones i could inject. So today i went back to the treatment center and talked with the Doctor, and i am now on a <2mg maintenance dose, i find that this low dose is the best way to mange my cravings and it helps keep my mind off wanting to go get some hyrdromorphone, or oxycodone that i so very badly want to load up into a rig and send it up my favorite vein.

 

[jamesBrown]

Yea it is absurd how much of this stuff they prescribe, and there being little to no alternate, aside from subutex (which my sub doc does not write for due to diversion and mainly imo i bet he gets major kick backs from r & b). I like many on here was prescribed a stupid high dose 24 mg a day!!, i only took 2mg a day and felt great, i was able to easily taper using the 4 day at a stable dose then taper by 25% every four days down to less then .5mg and then i started to skip days. That worked flawlessly, and i was able to stock a lot of suboxone, my problem is that i had a major relapse, and i used and traded much of my meds for better drugs, ei. ones i could inject. So today i went back to the treatment center and talked with the Doctor, and i am now on a >2mg maintenance dose, i find that this low dose is the best way to mange my cravings and it helps keep my mind off wanting to go get some hyrdromorphone, or oxycodone that i so very badly want to load up into a rig and send it up my favorite vein.

">2mg" means "greater than" 2 mg's......I think you meant less than 2mg's which is <2mg's

please correct me if im wrong. i just wanted to get the info straight......cuz if it really is >2mg's(greater than 2mg's)...how much is it?

 

[benzoheadplus44]

i need and plan on tapering from 8 from 16mg subutex, not suboxone.... and due to a local shortage, and overendulge... im gettting 12 15mg morphine oral sulphates, ER or no idk... but im at around 8-10mg bupe right now.... will i have trouble for five or six days staying not sick... and how many mg morphine should i take to equal about 6mg bupe....... i forgot to conversio, cant find it right now... setting up internet... i have benzos too... for the wd... immodium and diph.. plus nsaids for whatever... lol...

 

[chairmanma084]

I'm curious what your doctor said after you told him all this?! Meowmix, I love squirrels.

Secondd

 

[CfZrx]

I'm so sick of feeling withdrawal feelings a month after tapering down to 45mg daily morph that I can't wait to get approved insurance-wise for bupe pain management. Everything I've read indicates it is a superior drug to it's brethren. Thankfully pain docs keep you on a small dose, but if I could get 32 mg a day and only take .25mg a few times a day I wouldn't complain. Anybody notice that bupe is great for neuropathic pain?

 

[tightlywound]

interesting. I think I am on the lowest dose at 8.6mg zubsolv (supposedly equivalent to 12mg suboxone but I IV them so it probably is what it is) that I could probably ever possibly be comfortable on. in fact I have to split my dose up or I will be going into w/ds before it is time for the next one, so yeah I only do 1/4 of an 8.6mg tablet at a time and that "holds" me, but only for a few hours and only if I have been taking it consistently for prior days/times, I will be in withdrawals w/in 6 hours off the ~2mg I take at a time, and often say I've taken ~6.4mg (3/4 of an 8.6) at once, I will be well into withdrawals w/in 12 hours. if I take a whole one in the mid morning I may make it to bed if I don't stay up late but by the time I'm up the next day I'll be sick as shit or will even be waken up in the middle of the night by withdrawal symptoms. but spread it out and the withdrawal does not come on as soon. like I said if I did ~6.4mg at once I'd be in w/ds w/in 12 hours, but if I've taken ~6.4mg in the form of 2-2.5mg every 3-4 hours, I will not be in withdrawal quite yet (but shortly) even 18 hours later past the last small dose. and if I have actually gone into withdrawals, even just the early stages, I need at least 4.5mg at once to bump me out of them and "get me well." what works best for me is doing 2-2.5mg bupe every 2-4 hours throughout the day.
if I have taken any less than my full 8.6mg in a day then my cravings will start to come back by the next day. that is actually why I was originally moved from the 5.7/8mg to the 8.6/12mg dose, because my cravings were getting out of control again on the lower dose. on the higher dose they stay well in check.

my doctor insists that tolerance does not build to buprenorprine the same way it does to other opiates, but I know I have a massive tolerance to bupe. I build tolerance to any drugs (not just ones w/ abuse potential, even like boring psych meds) ridiculously though, something about my brain chemistry. because when I first started the bupe a standard 8mg suboxone film I could "feel" the first few hours after it kicked in, for the first few days at least before tolerance built quickly, but originally I could go like 2 1/2 if not a full 3 days off a single full dose of bupe before withdrawals would noticeably set in, now I cannot even make it a full day that way.

and I know that zubsolv withdrawals tend to come on more quickly than suboxone withdrawals, but even when I first started the 5.7mg zubsolv I could go at least a day and a half before starting to feel sick even off that lower dose, and it had become about that way w/ the suboxone at that time when I switched, 1 1/2-2 days before feeling withdrawals as opposed to 2 1/2-3.

and it does not help my anxiety like it used to either ...for the first 6 months or so I was on it the bupe really helped w/ my anxiety a lot, it no longer has any effect there. it also does very little these days for my chronic pain due to a fucked up back which it used to help w/ in the beginning.

maybe for most people and for starting out these doses are too high but I know for me personally, especially after being on it for maintenance for a couple years and having such a tolerance, I need my full big dose of bupe to function. my doctor will not go up anymore though and I don't expect her to. she believes that you should be on the minimum dose needed to control withdrawals as well as cravings. however I think my doctor may be making a mistake by basically letting people pick their own dose (at least partially) from the start. when I first started seeing her she wrote me for my films, made me take the first one in the office as is typical, but then she told me for the next 3 days to "take 1 8mg strip every morning when you wake up, and take another 1/4 of a strip every time you 'feel like you need it' [ie any time you start to feel withdrawaly] throughout the day and night and call me w/ an update every day." in order to decide what dose of bupe I should be prescribed in the long run she took into consideration how much I had felt the need to take to keep my withdrawals under control those first 3 days. had I only felt the need to just take 8mg a day I probably would have been prescribed 4mg strips for maintenance, however because I had generally felt the need to take 14mg she prescribed 12mg for the next week and then 8mg from then on. so that is what I started out on. and honestly I think almost any junkie who is just coming off dope is going to overestimate their buprenorphrine needs in the beginning, take another 1/4 every time they so much as get any chill or yawn a couple times, etc. I know I did, every time I felt a single withdrawal symptom I took another 1/4 because I didn't want to be in withdrawals and I was antsy not being doped up, etc.
I don't know though. I may not have needed that high a dose then but I do now. =/ yay legal addictions.

 

[Znegative]

You could definitely lower your bupe tolerance, if you wanted too. Just split each of those shots in half, you probably wont notice a difference in effect, though you will in longevity. It's really easy to lower your dose with IV bupe though, say you use 50 cc's to draw up 2mg, start squirting out 10 cc's every shot, you'll have reduced your dose by 1/5th and at a reduction like that, you will not notice any difference. Keep reducing it like that every three days, and you'll be down to shooting 2mg or under in no time, and realizing you get way better effects. Shooting 8mgs, is too much.

I know what you mean though about how you need to fix up every 6-7 hours or whatever, I remember that from back when I shot bupe. It actually says in prescribing information for temgesic and buprenex that the half life of buprenorphine (at the low dosages that buprenex and temgesic were prescribed, which were like, .2, .3, .5 or close to those dosages) that the half life of buprenorphine is somewhere around 5 hours, NOT 36 hours. I'm no science major, but I never understood how a drug could have a faster half life at a low dosage than at a higher one. I get that the blood levels spike more at low dosages when someones under the cieling effect, but wouldn't the half life still be the same?

 

[StevenUniverse]

Hello- I have a question/observation.
(I'm totally new here, as in I finally created an account as to be able to ask questions and comment, so I don't know if just tossing this out on this particular thread is cool, but I still can't create new threads)

ABOUT DOSAGE AND SUB'S HALF LIFE:
It seems to me, that if the half-life on suboxone is 36 HOURS, then if you're taking a given dose (maintenance) every 24 hours, say, in the morning
(let's say 8mg to keep things easy), that 24 hours later on day 2, when you take another 8 mg dose you will STILL have approx 5.3mg in your system,
(as it would take 36 hours to metabolize 8mg down to 4mg) so by adding 8, you'd now have 13.3mg in your system.
(Remembering that the half life is 36 hours, but you're dosing every 24 hours!)

NEXT DAY:
That 13.3mg has metabolized down to 8.86mg ( of the 13.3-as it has only been 24 hours, NOT 36!),
so now you take your daily 8mg dose and you will now have 16.86mg (give or take) in your system.

NEXT DAY:
The 16.86mg has only "half-lived" down to 11.24mg in 24 hours, and so you take your usual 8mg dose, for what is now 19.24mg!
That now only half-lifes down to 12.82mg over 24 hours.

NEXT DAY:
That 12.82 and 8mg more... 20.82mg!
Continuing the math day by day the pattern seems to kind of top out at about 24mg total per day, then there seem to be diminishing returns(???)
I suck at math- so this may be wrong.

So if you're taking 8mg every day, you're REALLY stacking up about 24mg per day.
Is this pretty much right? or is my math wrong?
Anyone with better information or better math skills- please reply.

The point being, that you're getting in deeper and deeper by dosing every 24 hours, because you're compounding the dosage still in your system with the daily dose.
No wonder it's really difficult to get off the stuff!

(This is a re-post I made in another thread since I wasn't getting any response- I'm sorry if anyone addressed this earlier her, but I can't be reading this entire thread to see!)

 

[Wrongguy]

I get what your saying but I'm not sure it works like that (although it makes sense without taking into account no other variables being involved, which for this case there most definitely are), to think of it like that and that there is ano absolute direct correlation between numbers in system and half life may be to simplistic for this. The face value of half life here may make it seem like you may be able to take the sum of the two and therefore all bupe in the system as one single variable, but I don't think you can. My theroy is that there must be a relationship with how fresh the bupe in your system is and not add the value of amount past half life to the fresh bupe. I guess we could look at this like a in body expiration date. This is also a simple theroy yes, and have no actual idea from actual data but based on the fact that people on matinance dont get massive massive od type levels then it must be more complicated than a simple linear relationship.

Expanding and elorbating the theroy: also im thinking maybe that people reach saturation levels and the rest is just easily passed out of their system really easily and so rapidly that half life becomes irrelevant ....idk

I'm no expert, not even close.... just trying to add to the discussion

And speaking of high prescribed bupe amounts, my friend was prescribed to 48mg a day, I shit you not...lol... how crazy it that.... anyone else ever known of levels like this prescribed... .??

 

[sunvol]

I'm prescribed two 8mg a day, so thats a total of 16mg. But truly I only need about 4mg to make it through the day.

 

[sunvol]

And speaking of high prescribed bupe amounts, my friend was prescribed to 48mg a day, I shit you not...lol... how crazy it that.... anyone else ever known of levels like this prescribed... .??

Yeah, my buddy use to get the white pills from his doctor witch are only suppose to be used for pregnant women. He was perscribed three 8mg a day and was given the option to take a fourth one if he needed it. He called in his script missing twice in one month and she refilled him twice. Doctors are as crooked as me and you, just because you went to school doesnt mean your a good person.

 

[Wrongguy]

Yea 4 (8mg) is high and 6 (8mg) is far beyond anything else I've ever saw or heard of personally