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Tips & tipping general discussion

Upscale restaurants sometimes have the chef bring out a course. It's nice because the chef explains the dish, and you get to meet him. Makes you feel *extra* special.
 
Gratuity for movers?

Gratuities for movers?

We moved and used a locally owned and operated moving company. The bill came to $495. When the invoice was presented, the mover said gratuity is customary but not mandatory.

We chose not to. Never heard of tipping the movers... Thoughts?
 
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I think very roughly 10% is appropriate in total depending on how many movers, etc. In your specific case I think $20 or so per mover would be appropriate (making several assumptions)
 
If you would tip a waitress for carrying a meal to your table - why would you not tip a guy that has just carried a wardrobe down a flight of stairs ?

If you don't have cash to spare then making sure that you offer them water, coffee or soda and if they are in your property for a few hours food then that is enough.
 
Bearlove said:
If you would tip a waitress for carrying a meal to your table - why would you not tip a guy that has just carried a wardrobe down a flight of stairs ?
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i don't think this is a good way of looking at it. i wouldn't tip laborers for re-roofing or even building a house, and they do more work for the client than either a mover or waiter. it's a matter of whether or not their income is designed to rely on gratuity.

the concept of tipping is bullshit and creates financial instability for workers who depend on it. income should be guaranteed. employers should be required to compensate their employees fairly and tax brackets should be re-worked so cash does not make such a difference to lower-wage workers. until those changes are made, it's important to tip when a person's income is dependent on it (with little regard to a job well done). if someone can't afford that gratuity, they shouldn't utilize the service.

outside of a sit down restaurant, it's difficult to figure out when and how much to tip.
 
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I wouldn't tip any self-employed movers just because they should have included that in the bill. If they have a standard rate to go by though and you had them move a tonne of shit then yeah tipping is just a means of saying "have a drink on me when you're done with work". Tips don't have to be 15% of the total for every service, just enough to buy a pint should be satisfactory in most cases.
 
I agree it should vary in different circumstances
here you have official type corporate operations, never dealt with them, assume no tip needed but probably might anyway because that's sort of my inclination, they I assume make probably a decent bit above minimum wage, wouldn't use them unless I needed really professional work for a piano or whatever hich I don't
then as a majority you have ones that are clearly fly-by-night operations (you see these taped to posts, on craigslist, whatever) employing illegal immigrants, the preponderanc being hispanic but of all varieties, usually of the same group, clearly organized by some higher up guy from that group, very cheap, I think a tip for them would be very appreciated and a good deed, I am sure they are getting paid shit
and specifically and oddly, you have a lot of israelis who work in moving operations, operating somewhere between the above two categories as far as legitimacy goes; I am given to understand that this is a way for them to have a legit job/green card when doing other shit, it's kind of a well known thing around the city, idk if I'd tip them, wouldn't use them
 
thujone said:
I wouldn't tip any self-employed movers just because they should have included that in the bill. If they have a standard rate to go by though and you had them move a tonne of shit then yeah tipping is just a means of saying "have a drink on me when you're done with work". Tips don't have to be 15% of the total for every service, just enough to buy a pint should be satisfactory in most cases.
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To be honest, I don't really get the whole tipping business. Those people do work and they get paid for it. I understand it if somebody feels extremely satisfied with the service, that they would want to add in a little something, but to make it practically obligatory..? I don't get tipped for every substance synthesized - and why should I?
 
Obligatory Reservoir Dogs clip:



So yeah... just imagine working a job where you are paid a fixed hourly wage. In front of you there are customers and you have to kowtow to their demands, no matter how unreasonable. Behind you there is an asshole trying to timebox every single responsibility you have in order to squeeze more efficiency out of you. You're constantly under pressure to account for every single minute of your shift and for every slow hour you get to enjoy in the day there are two hours of crunch time. Isn't it fair to expect a little extra compensation from a customer who maybe has specific needs or desires and wastes more of your precious minutes than the average customer?
 
My point is that it is not an unknown process. You described the job very well, and pretty much everyone knows that it is that way - just as you know that being a builder involves doing a lot of physical work. So if you're competent at completing those tasks, you should be paid a set amount - why is there need to demand extra pay from other people? As I said, I don't expect to be paid extra for every substance I synthesize. My work involves using harmful/toxic agents, doing physically demanding stuff, staying long hours, and much more - am I crying for extra pay? No, and there's a good reason for that.

In many cases I'm supposed to make a substance that may not be produced with a method that is expected to work. If it fails, I lose hours, so I have to compensate to get it done by some deadline. Do I get paid for those wasted hours? No.

It just seems to me that service people such as waiters are painted as some saints, when in reality they do lesser work than most. Medical staff, builders, farmers are among the groups of people that really do produce and help maintain our well-being, whereas waiters and such are only there to compensate for our laziness. And then they're the ones who are supposed to get extra pay for the work that they're already getting paid for?
 
yea sorry, i didn't mean that to sound condescending. you're right that service industry workers generally don't individually do anything spectacular for society but that's also why they're working jobs not careers. service people don't get to negotiate a salary more often than not, the job advertises what it pays and the worker is glad to get it or else there's someone else willing to do it.

so it's hard to come up with much incentive to keep people happy doing a job that nobody wants to do, which explains all the shitty service. the salient point being made in the clip is mainly that if you know someone is getting paid less because the service costs you less because tipping is expected then there's no way to not look like a dick saying "well fuck this person because they should have just asked for what they want". how else could they?

come to think of it, maybe that's why Starbucks charges four bucks for coffee. Nobody tips at Starbucks but everyone gets a smile, your name spelled wrong on a cup and some seat time in their oddly comfortable modern loft decor. but that seat time costs them some business. i can't even remember how many times i've passed on Starbucks because i wanted to get coffee somewhere i could actually find empty seats. wouldn't be surprised if part of that four bucks someone else is paying for their coffee covers the loss of my potential business.
 
I see what you're saying, but you're also contradicting yourself.

thujone said:
the job advertises what it pays and the worker is glad to get it or else there's someone else willing to do it.
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so it's hard to come up with much incentive to keep people happy doing a job that nobody wants to do, which explains all the shitty service.
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So which one is it then? I lean towards it having reasonable enough work-pay profile that there are always people willing to do it.

Of course the work is far from being a walk in the park, but it's also nothing superhuman. I guess my quarrel is with the system, I don't blame the individuals. I just can't agree with tips being made practically obligatory, up to the point that in some places it's included in the bill. I would much rather have those people get paid appropriately, like everybody else, and the cost of it being silently a part of the whole service cost. Just like you said, that 4 bucks coffee probably includes much more than the coffee powder and hot water, but you don't explicitly pay for everything separately, and aren't expected to leave a couple dollars for being able to sit behind a table. That's just ridiculous.
 
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i sort of understand what you're saying because i don't love obligatory tipping either and will withold a tip if i don't like the service and don't plan on returning.

but i also don't really understand the hangup about it. if you know you're heading somewhere tipping is expected, it's not much effort to make a mental note to budget for that extra 15% baseline and keep your purchases to where that extra is still affordable.
 
Why are you so accepting of something if you do not agree with the logic of it? Yes, it is not very hard to tip if tipping is expected, but that is not my point. I'm arguing against the whole concept.

As a very gross example, if you do not agree with the concept of slavery, then are you going to argue against it or just turn a blind eye because it is acceptable at that point in time?

To be clear, I will and do tip if I feel that the service is above a certain standard, and I'm not against the behaviour of individuals in service business. But I am against the tipping system, and for reasons I have described.
 
i don't like throwing money away, which is what happens when there is some unspoken obligation to pay someone even if they are doing a shitty job and providing no extra value.

but i love tipping, because tomorrow is never promised and if i can reach in to my pocket and bring some cheer into someone else's life right here, right now just by leaving a fiver under a plate, then that's worth more to me than the money is.
 
How is tomorrow never promised? Unless there's a particular disaster coming, there is no reason to fear for no tomorrow.

Service people get paid. Do they not? Why should they get more money than their salary is because they're doing service? Do nurses expect to get tips for injecting that hydromorphone better than others? Obviously what I said is a joke, but you still haven't answered why you feel that servants deserve the extra pay in form of tips.
 
because it is a norm for the income of certain service industry positions to be dependent on a direct exchange of money between the customer and worker. that norm has been worked into legislation; federal minimum wage for a tipped employee is $2.13 an hour. that is not intended to be adequate pay by itself, so tips are expected. i'm not sure where you live, but i am speaking from an american perspective.


anyway, google search results quite unanimously say it is customary to tip movers.
 
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