Tips & tipping general discussion

[belligerent drunk]

because it is a norm for the income of certain service industry positions to be dependent on a direct exchange of money between the customer and worker. that norm has been worked into legislation; federal minimum wage for a tipped employee is $2.13 an hour. that is not intended to be adequate pay by itself, so tips are expected. i'm not sure where you live, but i am speaking from an american perspective.


anyway, google search results quite unanimously say it is customary to tip movers.

I'm sorry, but you're using the "what society says is true" fallacy. The argument that "it is customary" to do something is not an argument. History does not excuse bullshit, I'm sorry to say.

You provided no logical basis for tipping that exact group of people, and not the others, and not just including it into the salary for all.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Id tip movers because a 4-5 hour job for $495, split between two workers with running cost isn't that much and I'm grateful that I wasn't required to bust my back hauling furniture up three flights of stairs. A couple of cold beers is usually what I'd give my mates for offering the same service.

I have no problems tipping most industries but I take exception when it is expected even after they have performed their job poorly. I understand waiters are paid poorly but don't get all huffy if you get my order wrong, make me wait 20 minutes for my drinks then slush half of it on the table and are generally so much of a miserable plod that I decide not to tip you for your lack of professionalism. Tips are an expression of gratitude for good service, not a way for business owners to skim customers pockets to supplement below minimum wages.

I'm glad I live in a society where prices are set to include the cost of wages and also taxes so there are transparency when it comes to true costs.

 

[belligerent drunk]

Id tip movers because a 4-5 hour job for $495, split between two workers with running cost isn't that much and I'm grateful that I wasn't required to bust my back hauling furniture up three flights of stairs. A couple of cold beers is usually what I'd give my mates for offering the same service.

I have no problems tipping most industries but I take exception when it is expected even after they have performed their job poorly. I understand waiters are paid poorly but don't get all huffy if you get my order wrong, make me wait 20 minutes for my drinks then slush half of it on the table and are generally so much of a miserable plod that I decide not to tip you for your lack of professionalism. Tips are an expression of gratitude for good service, not a way for business owners to skim customers pockets to supplement below minimum wages.

I'm glad I live in a society where prices are set to include the cost of wages and also taxes so there are transparency when it comes to true costs.

I agree that tipping somebody for well-done service is fine, but could anyone here explain to me why exactly these people are the ones to get tips? Again, why not that builder who puts up an iron-concrete wall? Or that one nurse who injects just the right amount of diacetylmorphine? (rhetoric to be considered, I don't mean what I say literally)

 

[assclass]

Or that one nurse who injects just the right amount of diacetylmorphine? (rhetoric to be considered, I don't mean what I say literally)

if I tip the nurse do i get extra droogs?

Why? Because thats the way things are, regardless of logic or need, and changing the status quo is hard as fuck. Restaurant owners dont want to change and pay staff more, wait staff dont want to change and make less/have to pay taxes...

 

[belligerent drunk]

"because that's way the things are" is not an argument. Slavery is OK because that's the way things are. Women subjugation is OK because that's the way things are. Getting the point by nao?

Address the point I made in my posts in a serious way.

 

[Gunship]

Address the point I made in my posts in a serious way.

Hope you don't mind if I butt in and add my opinion. When I go out to eat, I always tip the waitresses/waiters, because I know they rely on that money to make up the difference between what they get paid and minimum wage. At the end of their pay period if their tips and check didn't add up to at least minimum wage, the owner is supposed to pay that difference. If the movers were owner/operators, they shouldn't expect a tip, and he's right, it should have been added to the invoice, and the movers should have said something when they gave him a price estimate. I kind of feel like the mover 'cornered' him if you will. If the movers came over and they were obviously younger kids or college students, and I saw them working their asses off, I would tip them just because I know what it's like to be in that position, where making all you can make still isn't enough, and they don't get to get luxuries very often. It's the same for the lawn people who cut my yard. When it's the older guy on the riding lawn mower, I don't tip him. When he has a larger job to do and sends the 16 year old with the push mower, I tip him. Hope that makes sense.

 

[thetaxidriver]

I agree that tipping somebody for well-done service is fine, but could anyone here explain to me why exactly these people are the ones to get tips? Again, why not that builder who puts up an iron-concrete wall? Or that one nurse who injects just the right amount of diacetylmorphine? (rhetoric to be considered, I don't mean what I say literally)

Unfortunately, the majority of people follow long-standing norms of society that may not be relevant today without questioning them.

Consider this: I am a taxi driver in a small Canadian town. Unlike the cities, we are paid by the hour, not by what we earn (it tends to be more lucrative for drivers in smaller, slower towns). But as with the wages for waitresses, bartenders, etc., the minimum in my province is no lower than $11.20 an hour, and never lower than $10.70 an hour for employees who serve liquor, excluding places without licenses.

One would think that as an employee in an industry that is traditionally tipped for their services, I would support this practice. But I do not. The extra income is seen as a bonus of sorts, but I do not expect any one of my customers to tip me only as a customary practice. When I take a taxi in the city, or eat in a restaurant, if the driver is friendly, sociable and safe, or the service is good respectively, of course I will tip. But in the same fashion I have tipped employees in fast-food, car-washes, gas stations, and even the local auto mechanic when the job is well done.

Don't tip if you don't feel it is right. But give anyone else in the world a gift if they truly deserve it.

 

[thujone]

I agree that tipping somebody for well-done service is fine, but could anyone here explain to me why exactly these people are the ones to get tips? Again, why not that builder who puts up an iron-concrete wall? Or that one nurse who injects just the right amount of diacetylmorphine? (rhetoric to be considered, I don't mean what I say literally)

i guess it's just a cultural thing. to my euro fam it's normal to tip surgeons and doctors with bottles of wine or carton of cigs and even though european countries are so close together you can still find differences in tipping customs between neighbouring ones. tipping someone who is already well-compensated seems a bit bribey to me but iirc the american custom of tipping certain service employees comes from the value-added stuff like having table brought to your food if you don't want to sit at the bar.

now that some service sector workers consider tipping something they are simply entitled to, maybe it is time to change the custom but that has already begun happening legislatively (changes to min-wage rules) and privately. for example the restaurant i used to work for would pool all tips and then dole them out at the end of the night, so anyone who tipped a server there wasn't just tipping the server but also the back of house staff who actually prepared the food as well.

 

[SKL]

Some high-class restaurants in New York City and elsewhere has begun to ban tipping, pay their staff what at least they think is a living wage, and price it in to the flood. The commensurate price difference probably won't make much difference to their clientèle but we're this done in average restaurants, people might be intimidated and go elsewhere.

Regardless of the fact that tipping is a "social construct," it's also part of the American "social contract," so to speak. Nearly half of Americans have worked in the service industry at one point in my life (tipped or untipped, with pooled tips, etc.) so most of us (myself included) know the deal, although this always plays a bit into situations where there's resentment between the front and back of the house; as a cook I envied the waitresses for their tips, the homelier waitresses envied the prettier ones, and Black people always got poor service and last priority because there are very real cultural differences there in terms of tipping. Thankfully I didn't work there long and instead took up bouncing and occasionally barbacking and then eventually bartending at a place that did pool tips, but if someone gave you as a bartender who you'd been attending to specially and talking to, etc. as he was probably a good tipper to begin with, left you with $100 or even $20 as a parting tip when he left you'd be tempted just to pocket it and IMO be justified.) There's a thread somewhere else about tipping in bars ($1 a drink is the absolute floor bottom) and restaurants (if you can't afford to pay 15-20%, you can cook your own meal just like you can buy a bottle and get drunk at home.)

But anywhere here were talking about tipping people with whom there's no clear protocol. But, in fact, for most tipped occupations, there is. There used to be little cards that listed proper tipping amounts that were featured in hotels and stuff in NYC for people visiting from elsewhere who had no idea about the protocol for tipping a cab driver or bellhop. I haven't seen them in a while probably as another casualty, like the checkered cab, ubiquitous uniforms, and smoking in bars, on formerly many beautiful and classy things in City life.

The Internet should and does provide a ready guide to the OP's dilemma, but the conversation has veered therefrom to a more general discussion of tipping, which I think I'll merge with a similar, older thread.

Another "obligatory" movie TV excerpt:

[video=youtube_share;MrQwN8JorDk]http://youtu.be/MrQwN8JorDk[/video]

 

[SKL]

Merged with an older thread. Feel free to continue discussion as if nothing changed, but I like to keep topics of general interest that attract a lot of posts in one place.

 

[No one]

I start off at 10%, normally I will not go less than that. The service has to be truly terrible before I will stiff someone. However, far too many servers have the mentality that "I'm getting tipped anyway." that doesn't fly with me. There have been times when the service was outstanding and the tip certainly reflected it. But, I also have no problem letting you know that your service was not good by way of tip. I do though take all things into consideration. If my party is one of 7 or 8 tables I realize my drinks will not be filled immediately. On the other hand, if we are the only people in the place and it takes several minutes before you fill my drink, I am not a happy camper.

I used to move furniture there were times I would break my back for the customers and get a "Have a nice day.". Case in point, there was this one lady who we would do a ton of work for. She was worth 4 or 5 hundred million dollars, no joke. She had several properties, we would go to one move some stuff around, take some stuff to one of her other places where again we would move some stuff around, pick up stuff to bring back to the first place when we did the entire process all over again. We must have done the 20 times when I worked for the company, never once did she even offer us a glass of water, even when the temperature was in triple digits.

 

[Mmp85]

Okay my goal for the restaurant I open.

1 First off I will only hire employees with experience in every position in a restaurant (Ie...myself)
2 Everyone alternates working every position (cuts down on the front of the house v back of the house bullshit)
3 All tips are pooled at the end of night and we divvy them up at the end of the week (the house also takes a share{this will be explained later})
4 Everyone makes 10 an hour no matter what position you are working that night.
5 The money that the house takes in tips goes into a fund that will allow people to take paid days off, vacations, or doctors appointments. Everyone knowing and being proficient at every position will also help with days off...as there is always someone that knows your job.
6 If everyone has a vested interest in the tips they will all work harder to help eachother to offer good service.
7 You can be fired very easily here for not being good at what you do (everyone relies on everyone else so a weak link just won't work)
8 The customer benefits because everyone knows the regulars, and everyone is willing to go above and beyond for everyone else.
8 Everyone does everything for closing. Once you clean your station you help clean the kitchen. The same goes if you are working in the kitchen and you are finished closing you help the floor get the restaurant tidy and restocked.

This would be an ideal system. I will eventually open this restaurant. The pricing scheme will be moderately priced and the menu will change seasonally with four specials every night. I have met a lot of people like myself that were born into the restaurant business that understand the ins and outs of every position. There just is not a place that rewards people for their knowledge so far...maybe this would make a model for restaurants everywhere.

I like a lot of your ideas, while I don't think servers should have to be proficient in cooking and vice versa, I think both should have to shadow/train the other for a few days so they see what the others job is like.

As for hosts, bussers, food runners, these shifts should be split fairly between the waitstaff.

What I don't agree with is the $10 an hour wage. I would never wait tables for $10 an hour when I can make well over $20 with my own tips. If I wanted a $10 an hour job I'd do something easier like retail or a receptionist type job.
Same goes for chefs and cooks, they deserve over $10 and benefits since they tend to average full time hours. I don't think they should be officially tipped but if they go out of their way for me I'll gladly give them a few bucks.

I think tip pooling is a great incentive for teamwork. If your staff is slacking in that area make them pool tips for a few shifts and see how their tune changes.