Miscellaneous Those retreats where you pay to trip

[Ismene2]

I've been watching a few of the docs on youtube about that place in Costa Rica where people go to trip on either ayahusca or mushrooms. I was struck by how many come out after the trip saying shit like "This isn't recreational drug use, this isn't fun (as if fun is bad) - this is serious stuff that can change your life in one trip". I understand that they've paid a fortune and really, really want to believe but there's nothing that can change your life in one trip. Life just doesn't work like that. And it creates false expectations - there's a film of that dildo "James English" doing it and afterwards he says "I don't think it's changed my entire life in one night" - as if that means ayahuasca is bullshit. No James, the bullshit is believing you can change your life in one night.

Perhaps it's because they see this Costa rica place as some big once in a lifetime thing and they have to believe with all their might that it changed them permanently. If you only take psychedelics once every ten years then you have a distorted idea of what they do.

If you're taking psychedelics regularly you understand it's not about one day - it's a path you can follow for your lifetime.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

most the folk that go there never done LSD lol.

Just a bunch of rich mfs who got scammed for a trip lmfao!

and the unwanted extra of the shaman fucking them up the ass under the influence.

The whole industry is corrupt and fake as fuck.

Its obv alot of the folk have never touched a psychedelic do ayahusca cause they all the hippy dippity natural bullshit and claim it changed them, forgot to mention the part where they charged daddies coropate credit card the cost of the whole trip.

my deepest trips started to happen more regularly 4-5 years into my journey. Now its been two years now since i took a massive amount of acid in one ago.

Its like the ket clinics. Fucking ripp off lol.

 

[nznity]

The true ayahuasca experience has to be in the Amazon Jungle. Either Perú or Brazil(altho this one is a bit more expensive).
Rather than paying 1000's of dollars in Central America where you're truly fucking ripped off.

 

[nznity]

most the folk that go there never done LSD lol.

Just a bunch of rich mfs who got scammed for a trip lmfao!

and the unwanted extra of the shaman fucking them up the ass under the influence.

The whole industry is corrupt and fake as fuck.

Its obv alot of the folk have never touched a psychedelic do ayahusca cause they all the hippy dippity natural bullshit and claim it changed them, forgot to mention the part where they charged daddies coropate credit card the cost of the whole trip.

my deepest trips started to happen more regularly 4-5 years into my journey. Now its been two years now since i took a massive amount of acid in one ago.

Its like the ket clinics. Fucking ripp off lol.

I did a massive KHOLE last week that literally dragged me down to hell and fucking kicked me back to HEAVEN later. It was fucking beautiful, a true fucking mystical experience. And it cost me....nothing. my buddy came over to my place with like 3 grams of pure IV solution, it was top notch , but I don't think I'm ever touching ketamine again.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

I think that the retreats help with intent and respect for the experience. However, you can do that on your own.
If I found a local church to trip on anything at, for a little more than it would cost me to explore on my own, I would go for it.
There is a limit to what that is worth, though. You can do it yourself.

My physical therapist told me that there was a direct correlation found between how much a person paid for Glucosamine supplements and the relief they reported.

 

[Zork]

I don't think you would gain much or anything from one of these retreats Ismene. The same goes for any psychonaut.

They are better suited to a person who would not typically use psychedelics with repressed trauma. The therapist is to guide the experience and the settings like Costa Rica are to take the person out of their natural setting and push the trip into a more positive experience.

Many of the retreats are cash grabs and there is now lots of evidence of sexual abuse or unprofessional sexual relationships between therapist and participant. I forget the percentage but it is significant.

In general for therapy and retreats I put my faith into the professional therapists that have made the likes of mdma, psilocybin and ketamine their career path and who are treating trauma already in clinical settings. Anyone could set up one of these remote retreats with the resources or money.

 

[G_Chem]

This is elitism at its finest. Capitalism bleeding into our culture, mixed with the false assumption that native peoples somehow have “it” more figured out than we do. Fact is this, we are all dumb monkeys with not a smidgen of a clue of what’s going on here. Native people have nothing more or less figured out than us whiteys driving our nice cars, playing on our cell phones.

The answer to the question of life is to live. To experience. To breathe in the fresh air of the morning, to smell the roses, to fuck, to laugh, and to appreciate every moment for the beautiful thing it is. Those that spend their whole lives seeking, are missing what’s right in front of their eyes.

-GC

 

[Pfafffed]

I hear what you're saying Ismene and tend to agree. I think most of us here are really enfranchised when it comes to knowledge, access, and comfort regarding psychedelics. These retreats are there for people who have no clue where to begin with tripping. They want the known risks and the unknown risks mitigated, and they're willing to pay to have a professional take care of that for them.

As for one trip changing your life, I would say that it happens. My partner has tripped hundreds of times, but there's one trip that hit him like a truck. It was fruitful, but he's still processing the fallout and integrating it six years later.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I have a friend like this.
She started going to these retreats to "cure her addiction" to benzos & pills & shit.
And it helped her I guess at first but then she was right back into them.

Now she's gone there at least a dozen more times in the past few years. Still thinking she's gonna have the same outcome.
Of course she has mind blowing experiences. Says they do a lot of "purging", where she throws up a lot.

And then tells me about how she meets all these beings & they give her "wisdom" & the usual kind of psychedelic mumbo jumbo people say after a big trip.

Honestly, I think it's a scam. It might help some people in the short term, but humans are pre-wired to be addicted to things. So unless you're truly determined to quit something & then swap it out for another addiction that is less or equally pleasurable, then you ain't quittin' shit. Going on trips from any substance doesn't tend to "cure" anything. It may give you the wisdom to finally quit it or move on, but some people act like these ceremonies & aya are magic bullets. Free trips to a "better life" and then they're sorely disapointed when they realize it doesn't stick. And then they're right back at the retreat giving those people their money again.


Like some one else said, big rip offs.
Just like these ketamine clinics. "500 dollars per session! but you'll need to do about 7 of those sessions!" and anyone with an ounce of brain cells knows that the afterglow from these psyches/dissos does help, but they are not permanent. Yet these places act as though you'll be "cured" if you just give them a couple grand. It's predatory really.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Just earlier this year, an old and dear friend went to two different retreats in British Columbia where they did ayahuasca. She's very experienced with LSD and mushrooms. Has been doing them for years. Also adept at meditation.
Anyway, she found both retreats to be beyond underwhelming as she expected something more out of them. Defo thought it would be as sold to her: a sort of acutely helpful event (she's been trying to sort out a few things).
She reckons she can help herself more through her meditation than spending any more money on these retreats.

She told me about one lady who has gone over 100 times........which fucking blew my mind. That's just a psychological addiction at that point. These things cost some hundreds to attend.

I reckon this is one of those things where "Don't try this at home" does not apply.

 

[SunriseChampion]

These retreats are there for people who have no clue where to begin with tripping. They want the known risks and the unknown risks mitigated, and they're willing to pay to have a professional take care of that for them.

That's a very fair point.

I guess I'd send me mum then, whilst I do my drugs up north in the bush.

 

[JackARoe]

When I look at back at psychedelic history I may be biased because of what I have become. lol But in the early days we had the Leary camp disagreeing with Ken Kesey camp on how these things should be distributed. I agree more with Ken Kesey, have a party, give it to anyone who wants, have fun and if you are a casualty then deal with it. At one point Huxley thought only certain people should be able to take things like LSD and mescaline. But who sits on that high ground and decides? Seems silly.

I think the retreats could be good for some people. For me I learned early on no more gurus and shamans needed. That was not needed when LSD was unleashed to the public (and yes I consider LSD just about the same as ayahuasca in it's power if not more in some ways having done both) LSD did not come with a brochure. It was people totally winging it.

But like anything and everything, these retreats become a business and a business is where money is made. I am willing to bet some try hard to help people. But here is the thing I understand about Shamanism. The sick person (or guest) does not trip. A shaman trips and comes back with some healing steps for the person looking to be healed. These retreats should nix any explanation that has shaman in it and call it what it is. A trip retreat. Advertise correctly and I can be ok with it if intentions are pure. But in no way does a person need to travel to a different country to try ayahuasca. It works in your own home.

I had to laugh at internal changing too. I mean I have changed. But I have been tripping for 46 years. These days a mushroom trip refreshes me for 2 days and then I am back to my depressing self. lol I can see a newcomer feeling good for a good long time. I may have used up my chips in this regard. Although a year and a half ago I had a strong LSD trip that refreshed me for a full week.

In the year 2000 I went to Costa Rica (Quepos) with 1000 other hippies to see String Cheese Incident. It was one of those concert packages. People from Northern California came down with visine bottles of liquid acid and I got to take acid and hike a Rain Forest. One of my finest days. I think I tripped 3 times in that 11 days. It is a beautiful country so I know why a trip vacation would be there. The people of the village had open invitation to the concerts. A couple of the tour guides we having fun with us gringos when we were doing the rainforest canopy. We were flying over canyons on a rope and landing on rotted wood 200 feet up in a trees and terrified. The guides were having fun goofing us. 4 days later I see a few of those guides at the concerts, pupils dilated and got their face sparkled and you knew it was their first time tripping and having fun. They recognized us. Turnaround is fair play. lol Someone dosed them. But all was well. Not an Ayahuasca retreat but none the less tripping in the rain forest with LSD.

 

[Ismene2]

Im starting my own retreat. They enter my living room - (I make sure Ive kicked my shitten underpants under the settee) and im laid there with a bone through my nose and my legs in the air pushing acid up my balloon knot.

"Listen up, im not going through this again. You need to push it in up to the second knuckle - that way you see Yahweh"

 

[brokedownpalace10]

I had to laugh at internal changing too. I mean I have changed. But I have been tripping for 46 years. These days a mushroom trip refreshes me for 2 days and then I am back to my depressing self. lol I can see a newcomer feeling good for a good long time. I may have used up my chips in this regard. Although a year and a half ago I had a strong LSD trip that refreshed me for a full week.

"Comin' comin' comin' around
Comin' comin' comin' around
In circles"
The Other One (but you knew that)

If it's been a while, maybe the positivity can last a little longer.
Also, those initial changes have stuck, some of them.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

I just looked up local retreats, thinking it might be nice if it was cheap enough. Sheesh. It was not. We're talking Kentucky hills.

 

[Foreigner]

It's just expensive gatekeeping and babysitting for scared white people who also want to tell themselves that their money really paid for them to be "transformed." Psychedelic capitalism. I can't think of anything worse than being in a cult-like atmosphere with a bunch of new agers who barely have any tripping experience. I'll choose my own venue and tripping schedule thanks.

 

[swilow]

Those retreats just sound awful to me. I really loathe pretend-shamanism. Actually, as a general practise, I have little patience for shamanism beyond as an anthropological curiosity. I can imagine little that is less conducive to a good trip than being in some 3rd world country with an illiterate schizophrenic chanting nonsense at me while I pretend that I'm not surrounding by squalor. I don't doubt that shamanism is important and forms the backbone of many indigenous communities and their navigation of reality and its a fascinating glimpse at human psychology, but for this particular westerner, it would be like attending an exorcism.

I don't really buy into the spiritual side of tripping, for me it's a largely recreational aesthetic experience that is better elucidated with the scientific method. Rather than getting in touch with my own divine soul, I get to see what happens when the computational, electrochemical basis of consciousness and reality perception is modified. And its given me a lifelong wealth of absolutely fascinating experience. But I haven't emerged with empirical wisdom or knowledge- instead psychedelics have pointed me to and inspired a deep interest in science, physics, maths, etc.

 

[Didgital]

I can't speak much about retreats but i did go to a 4 day gathering at a midwife center in Ecuador once. Any given ceremony there would be 30-50 people and there would be like 5 shamans or "yachaks" as they are called locally. It was $25 usd a night.

It was definitely chaotic, lots of crying, screaming, puking, and chanting, and i had several extremely strong experiences there.

I ended up spending weeks with them and it was amazing.

Prolly not a typical retreat but im grateful i got to take and make it in somewhat traditional setting

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Those retreats just sound awful to me. I really loathe pretend-shamanism. Actually, as a general practise, I have little patience for shamanism beyond as an anthropological curiosity. I can imagine little that is less conducive to a good trip than being in some 3rd world country with an illiterate schizophrenic chanting nonsense at me while I pretend that I'm not surrounding by squalor. I don't doubt that shamanism is important and forms the backbone of many indigenous communities and their navigation of reality and its a fascinating glimpse at human psychology, but for this particular westerner, it would be like attending an exorcism.

I don't really buy into the spiritual side of tripping, for me it's a largely recreational aesthetic experience that is better elucidated with the scientific method. Rather than getting in touch with my own divine soul, I get to see what happens when the computational, electrochemical basis of consciousness and reality perception is modified. And its given me a lifelong wealth of absolutely fascinating experience. But I haven't emerged with empirical wisdom or knowledge- instead psychedelics have pointed me to and inspired a deep interest in science, physics, maths, etc.

I think psychedelics allow you to see God. (What you want to define God as is up to you.) But that vision of God does not last, as has been previously stated (kinda).
However, seeing the divine and thus knowing the divine exists (Again, define the divine how you like.) is a very valuable thing which can cause you to try to bring the divine into your life while not tripping.

To speak more to your post. I would like to see more scientific study of what people experience when they get closer to the divine. Maybe it's not a hairy thunderer or cosmic muffin or even the wheel of life, but the positive things people have consistently gotten can't be explained solely by placebo IMO.

But

"Don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters."

and

"The mystery man came over
And he said, "I'm out of site"
He said, for a nominal service charge
I could reach nirvana tonight
If I was ready, willing and able
To pay him his regular fee"

 

[swilow]

To speak more to your post. I would like to see more scientific study of what people experience when they get closer to the divine. Maybe it's not a hairy thunderer or cosmic muffin or even the wheel of life, but the positive things people have consistently gotten can't be explained solely by placebo IMO.

I don't think its (whats?) placebo but I am truly sceptical about any experiences of divinity or God which happen under psychedelics. Certainly something amazing happens, and I totally agree and would find scientific investigation on this topic fascinating. But science tells us that our brains are literally organs which translate raw sense data- be it photons, or vibration or whatever- into electrical impulses which are then assembled into a cohesive whole and that our brain effectively creates a completely immersive virtual reality via innumerable instantaneous computations and I've come to see that invoking a divine agent or something supernatural diminishes this everyday (every moment) miracle. It makes it inexplicable and incomprehensible. And looking to empiricism, or adopting a more materialistic view of things doesn't make it any less amazing. It's why I've been tripping for almost 25 years now, right up until this very minute on that note, please forgive me if my post doesn't make sense!

I used to look to magic and holiness as the answer to the question posed by psychedelics and it lead to nothing tangible, whereas learning about physics, chemistry, evolutionary biology made the puzzle pieces (some very few of them at least) fall into a semblance of order. Each to their own, though.