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Theory of psychedelics. Are they right or wrong?

Whats the problem with getting no where? Where do we need to be?

Also just because there is a possibility that other animals will become intelligent like us doesn't mean they will form a society like us.
 
Shambles said:
I do love the way our lil debates twist and turn here in Swirlsville :)

Cloudy: Without wishing to put words in your mouth, would you think it acceptable to release some virus that would kill every human being on Earth tomorrow? Assuming it left all other life untouched. What's the difference between saying you'd like to see the human race extinct 500 years from now and saying we all deserve to die right here and now?
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I do not wish death upon anyone, I do have emotions and morals (founded based on my life experience). I'm still a human being even though my beliefs do not necessarily coincide with the majority.

However with that said, I have no problem with humans suddenly becoming extinct, by what means? I don't know, and I know I don't want to be the cause of it.

I really don't know how else to explain this. In sum I want humans to be taken off the face of the earth or at least have the population down to a manageable harmonious level spread through out the earth. By what means I don't know, but I don't want wish death upon anyone. Maybe a virus that inhibits reproduction would be ideal as it won't cause death to people, only the death of the species.
 
^Well it'll happen eventually. We can't keep expanding forever, at some point we're going to have to achieve some type of balance or nature will select us out.
 
Perhaps we are the cutting edge of the force of nature - maybe an embryonic force but who knows - I doubt it myself but....
 
CounTerOrdeR said:
I think this kinda stuff is way out there and not very grounded. Certain things interact with other things in many different ways, just because some of those things are pleasant and/or "mind expanding" doesnt mean there is anything else to them. Some of you guys make it sound like the conscience is involved in a huge conspiracy to cover up reality. Like as if theres some unknown universe it never wants us to know about and that when we take these drugs we get these glimpses of truth that it tries to hide as if itself(somehow without"us") has knowledge of sucha place or "plane". Its crazy. When you get too drunk is your blurred vision due to some crazy overlapping or lagging of different "planes" or is it alcohol fucking with the normal funtioning of messages.

All psyches do is warp the message and how you understand it. They dont open up wormholes or some crazy shit.

lol anyway G'Night.
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Amen. I am so sick of the omg psych's give us the answers to life routine.
 
To romsoccer12:

I'm sorry.. you seem to be taking me far too seriously..

I was simply fckin about at the tail end of a meph binge.. I am sorry..

I do not know it's true.. doesn't mean it can't be? Who knows, not us.. let's just live and let live..
 
Believing in an alien race that created our world billions of years ago which in their perception of time outside of our universe is only 23 years in their billions of year lifetime with IQ's at least 12 digits higher than ours is definitely a lot less valid than believing in a ambiguous higher power.
 
They would be that higher power. I really don't see the difference. Faith is faith. However loony it may seem to others :)

Also, I'm still not convinced by your "humans need to go extinct" theory, Cloudy. Can see what you are getting at but I still don't see a difference between releasing that hypothetical virus tomorrow and ending all human life or hoping something does it in 500 years. Only difference i can see is that you personally wouldn't want to be responsible for it. Which is a bit of a cop-out, I'd say. You either believe humans are as much a part of the natural order as everything else or you don't. Or maybe that we have gotten too big for our boots and need to be "punished" by having no future. Sure I must be missing something but that's how it seems to me anyway.

I tend to agree with Roger - a balance will be found. Whether that be through technology for good, or for bad (the lethal virus scenario and the like) or natural events. The world can only support so many people so the population will be controlled one way or another whether we like it or not.
 
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Shambles said:
They would be that higher power. I really don't see the difference. Faith is faith. However loony it may seem to others :)
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Ya the belief in the existence of a higher power is faith, but it seems obvious that the more specific your faith is the less likely that your faith is correct. The possibility of an ambiguous higher power, al though not necessarily true, is more likely than specifically believing in an alien race, or higher power with such specific details, like having an IQ that is at least 12 digits long. It's less likely, therefore less valid and even more loony.

I don't subscribe to any faith but the possibility of a higher power is more likely than the specifics of the alien race mentioned above.
 
Shambles said:
They would be that higher power. I really don't see the difference. Faith is faith. However loony it may seem to others :)

Also, I'm still not convinced by your "humans need to go extinct" theory, Cloudy. Can see what you are getting at but I still don't see a difference between releasing that hypothetical virus tomorrow and ending all human life or hoping something does it in 500 years. Only difference i can see is that you personally wouldn't want to be responsible for it. Which is a bit of a cop-out, I'd say. You either believe humans are as much a part of the natural order as everything else or you don't. Or maybe that we have gotten too big for our boots and need to be "punished" by having no future. Sure I must be missing something but that's how it seems to me anyway.

I tend to agree with Roger - a balance will be found. Whether that be through technology for good, or for bad (the lethal virus scenario and the like) or natural events. The world can only support so many people so the population will be controlled one way or another whether we like it or not.
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90% of the world I wager (completely made up number, but considering the majority of the world is religious I don't seeing it far off) wouldn't be convinced by my theory. I do not deny that it is radical, but it certainly is the only thing that makes sense to me at this point in history for human beings.

Of course I wouldn't want to be responsible for the death of the human race, that would make me a loon wouldn't it? I'm still a human being even though my beliefs differ from the rest of the world. I still carry the same range of emotions as everyone else. I also don't want to die, so why would I release a virus that kills everyone including me?

Also I certainly don't believe we need to be "punished". I just want us off the face of the earth so everything else living on it can continue to live harmoniously an flourish. Life is a beautiful thing and shouldn't be tossed aside. I know what many of you are probably thinking after that statement, but once again I'll say that by humans continuing to live on, it'll destroy the opportunity for life for more species than just one. So taking that in to consideration, I feel that our death is less significant than the death of thousands and thousands of species of plants and animals. Or intelligence doesn't make us any more special or better in the game of life, it just is what we use to survive, so wiping one species out no matter how different they may seem to be, is no different than wiping out the common squirrel.
 
I wouldn't wish to wipe out the common squirrel any more than i would wish to wipe out humanity. I see the Earth (and by extension the universe and everything inside (or indeed outside) or it) as being part of a greater whole. Humans are no more or less special than anything else, in my view.

I actually know plenty of people who believe very similar things to what you've explained of your own beliefs - you are far from alone, I can assure you. But I fundamentally disagree that humans are somehow inferior (or superior) to anything else - we are serving our role in the grand scheme... if there is one. Who knows whether what you see as a negative impact is actually a positive impact? To presume to know whether what we do is for the best, the worst or makes no difference at all sounds like human arrogance to me ;)

I also know that you aren't a psychopathic loon bent on wiping us out, but I still fail to see the difference between us dying out now and in 500 years or whenever else. Why shouldn't future generations have the right to life just as much as those alive today? Only difference I can see is that it's easier to think of genocide when it doesn't involve you and your loved ones.

I can understand and relate to the idea of humans being seen as a negative or destructive force, but I don't believe it's true. Life goes on with or without us - sooner or later everything will be gone including the planet we live on. In the bigger picture, whether we are here or not is pretty irrelevant cos nothing lasts forever - even a planet without us around buggering things up (or quite the opposite) is only here for a blink of a cosmic eye :)

LSD: I don't see the difference you make either, really. Most faiths are fairly specific, non-specific belief in a generic higher power is no more or less likely than any of the other options, in my opinion.
 
Shambles: Well, I give you A+ for everything you just said except what was directed at me :p

I agree that no concrete evidence of a higher power has been discovered, so it is all speculation, but some of my acid trips seemed fairly divine, sublime and god-like ;)
 
A+ dropped to an E - story of my life 8)

I am not actually suggesting that there isn't a higher power... or that there is. Some of my trips have taken me to places so far beyond anything short of some kind of communion with that higher power (for want of a better term) I also tend to believe that there is... something.

For me, that "something" is everything - humans, squirrels, plants, rocks, animal, mineral, vegetable and other. If there is any kind of god I believe in then it we are it along with everything else. Hence my objection to summary execution of a species as suggested by Cloudy and others.

Yup, I can be vague and wooly about this stuff too. Kinda hard not to when dealing with things that there aren't words for really :)
 
Shambles said:
A+ dropped to an E - story of my life 8)

I am not actually suggesting that there isn't a higher power... or that there is. Some of my trips have taken me to places so far beyond anything short of some kind of communion with that higher power (for want of a better term) I also tend to believe that there is... something.

For me, that "something" is everything - humans, squirrels, plants, rocks, animal, mineral, vegetable and other. If there is any kind of god I believe in then it we are it along with everything else. Hence my objection to summary execution of a species as suggested by Cloudy and others.

Yup, I can be vague and wooly about this stuff too. Kinda hard not to when dealing with things that there aren't words for really :)
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We share similar views. As I mentioned earlier, I think that divinity can exist depending on how you definite it. I define the divine as whatever created reality and life within it, whether that is simply the infinite nature of existence that made our reality inevitable. We both think that if there is a God then "everything" or the infinite is that higher power, and if that is correct than we are all part of the divine infinite source of creation and everything holds a piece of divinity within itself. As someone mentioned somewhere, there is a good chance that we are the universe (or maybe "God"?) looking back on itself :)

Which reminds me of "The Self-Aware Universe" which is an interesting book on quantum mechanics suggesting a spiritual connection.
 
i'm not sure if psychs are "right or wrong"... but more the person taking them...
 
I'm of the belief that groups of humans having faith and believing in something makes it real to that group of humans.

For example, the ancient Greeks and their many Gods were very real to them, and so they existed. Or Christians believing in their one patriarchal God, and the whole Jesus thing, is real to them, and so it exists. No one is right or wrong, you can't prove or disprove any set of beliefs. Everyone has their reasons for believing what they do, and it's pointless to argue about which faith/school of thought is the right one, because no one is right! and everyone is right! Each mind is it's own reality, co-existing with one another in this dance of life!

BUT maybe I'm just crazy......
 
i think buddhism complements your type of mindset well. i wasn't aware of the religion's message, for lack of a better word, until one day (and this is after having tried psychedelics various times) i was simply vaping the very benin plant, marijuana. My friend had a copy of the tibetan book of the dead (we all know of leary's association with it, and that is indeed why my friend bought it)and i began to read it and was enthralled by it. did marijuana cloud my judgement and make me "realize" that perhaps buddhism was ideal for me? i don't know, but ever since i've started reading buddhist texts my life seems "better.' to quote leary even though its cliche:


The drug does not produce the transcendent experience. It merely acts as a chemical key — it opens the mind, frees the nervous system of its ordinary patterns and structures.

i've met many people who've experimented with psychedelics/entheogens and have learned nothing from them. Granted what you learn is highly subjective, it is hard to imagine not being positively changed from using certain drugs so long as you adhere to set and setting.

My $0.02: nothing, including psychedelics are here for a reason, it's just here. it itself is the reason. LSD doesn't occur naturally: is it not here for a reason?
 
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