The vegan and vegetarian thread!

[Jabberwocky]

didn't wanna start my own thread..... so i guess this can fit here.

i've been vegetarian for like over 25 years. just found out i'm deficient in iron. i was a lot as a teenager but that was cos i only ate one meal a day. now i eat like a fucking walrus.

also, i have loads of spinach, lentils, and have been taking a pre natal vitamin daily since september, which has 100% of my iron requirements.

so wtf? how has this happened?

symptoms include fatigue and headaches. i'd put this down to needing new glasses cos it was often when i was working, i.e. in front of a screen. plus it causes cold hands and feet which i thought was just cos i was slightly undereating. i guess i should be pleased there's a relatively simple fix.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

didn't wanna start my own thread..... so i guess this can fit here.

i've been vegetarian for like over 25 years. just found out i'm deficient in iron. i was a lot as a teenager but that was cos i only ate one meal a day. now i eat like a fucking walrus.

also, i have loads of spinach, lentils, and have been taking a pre natal vitamin daily since september, which has 100% of my iron requirements.

so wtf? how has this happened?

symptoms include fatigue and headaches. i'd put this down to needing new glasses cos it was often when i was working, i.e. in front of a screen. plus it causes cold hands and feet which i thought was just cos i was slightly undereating. i guess i should be pleased there's a relatively simple fix.

Drink Guinness...

 

[Jabberwocky]

Drink Guinness...

lol no

 

[G_Chem]

The problem unfortunately may come from the anti-nutrients found in nuts, legumes, and many plant based protein sources that make absorption/bioavailability more difficult.

While I’m not a vegan, I do make a fair amount of vegan/vegetarian dishes. Find recipes that wash the nuts or legumes in water. For example I got this lasagna I make that has butternut squash for the “pasta” and cashew base for the “cheese.” The cashews can be soaked multiple times with hot water to leech out a lot of those anti-nutrients to make them overall better for the body.

-GC

 

[Jabberwocky]

The problem unfortunately may come from the anti-nutrients found in nuts, legumes, and many plant based protein sources that make absorption/bioavailability more difficult.

While I’m not a vegan, I do make a fair amount of vegan/vegetarian dishes. Find recipes that wash the nuts or legumes in water. For example I got this lasagna I make that has butternut squash for the “pasta” and cashew base for the “cheese.” The cashews can be soaked multiple times with hot water to leech out a lot of those anti-nutrients to make them overall better for the body.

-GC

thanks!! i had heard of anti nutrients from a youtuber who describes themselves as 'dr' but when i googled them they turned out to be a naturopath so i swiftly removed everything they'd told me from my brain and told youtube not to recommend them to me. but, it looks like they are genuinely a thing.

seriously fml how are all the healthy foods i've been eating suddenly fucking me over like this!?!? i do soak lentils before i cook them. didn't know about soaking nuts but i'll try that too.

kinda wish i could just eat meat now, seems easier than all this faffing. but last time i tried to eat meat was nearly 20 years ago and it was horrendous. its just not food to me anymore.

your lasagna sounds amazing!! mind sharing the recipe?

 

[G_Chem]

thanks!! i had heard of anti nutrients from a youtuber who describes themselves as 'dr' but when i googled them they turned out to be a naturopath so i swiftly removed everything they'd told me from my brain and told youtube not to recommend them to me. but, it looks like they are genuinely a thing.

seriously fml how are all the healthy foods i've been eating suddenly fucking me over like this!?!? i do soak lentils before i cook them. didn't know about soaking nuts but i'll try that too.

kinda wish i could just eat meat now, seems easier than all this faffing. but last time i tried to eat meat was nearly 20 years ago and it was horrendous. its just not food to me anymore.

your lasagna sounds amazing!! mind sharing the recipe?

While I know this isn’t the place to push meat, I am believer in it.

So not gonna lie this recipe was more geared towards Whole30 and had meat but I believe it would taste amazing without it too.

THE BEST Whole30 Lasagna (Paleo - Keto - Grain Free) - Every Last Bite

This Whole30 Lasagna tastes just like the real thing, but uses butternut squash in place of pasta. It's so good! (Paleo, Keto, GF, DF)

www.everylastbite.com

If I was to do it without the meat, I’d simply skip that step of cooking the meat and then maybe do 50-100% more of the cashew cheese to make up for it. I’d probably also add in more onion and garlic overall.

I also soak the cashews for WAY longer than they say, they say 10min and I do 1-2 soaks ranging anywhere from an hour up to overnight. I feel the longer the soak the more “cheese-like” it actually gets too.

Just know it would be experimental (changing recipes can be sketchy sometimes for unseen reasons) but hands down this is my favorite way to eat squash. And since cheese fucks me up I miss dishes like this. I cut part of my thumb off on this recipe, spent 6hrs in the ER, came home and finished it lol. Was making it again a few weeks later..

Edit- I apologize for posting a meat recipe in this thread but I feel if edited it’s got major potential for vegans/vegetarians.

-GC

 

[thegreenhand]

legumes can definitely have this problem. but ofc that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t eat them like some of those ‘naturopaths’ say

the main antinutrient that blocks absorption in those foods is phytic acid. iirc it forms a precipitate with iron, zinc, and magnesium which basically renders them insoluble in water.

on the bright side, there is a solid body of evidence that taking ascorbic acid/vitamin c can counteract much of this negative effect. so a supplement taken before a meal would theoretically help your iron absorption

 

[thegreenhand]

And since cheese fucks me up I miss dishes like this.

same, i cut dairy out because of lactose intolerance. but some of those nut cheeses are pretty fucking good. not the refined shit, but stuff like that cashew cheese from that recipe you posted. i’ve had some from walnuts before too that was incredible

 

[G_Chem]

same, i cut dairy out because of lactose intolerance. but some of those nut cheeses are pretty fucking good. not the refined shit, but stuff like that cashew cheese from that recipe you posted. i’ve had some from walnuts before too that was incredible

Ya man fake cheese like Daiya is some of the nastiest shit. I remember my vegetarian friends made me some pizza sometime and I had to politely choke it down.

But cheese-like ingredients made from nuts are such a better alternative, they actually taste good! The only problem is it’s more like a ricotta or pre-melted cheese, so it limits what can be done.

Cashews are the best of the nuts too, not sure why.. Nutritional Yeast is also another way to get a cheesey flavor. I make a homemade hamburger helper type dish and to substitute cheese/milk I use a sugarless nut milk like almond or cashew then sub 2tbsp of Nutritional Yeast for every cup of cheddar I believe.

-GC

 

[Jabberwocky]

@G_Chem thanks for the recipe. things with mince you can quite easily substitute TVP or other types of veggie mince. you just have to put a better stock and some marmite in to add some flavour. preparing the squash like that sounds like a pain!! i am weak lol. would have to see if i could get the pre made sheets.

the vegan cheeses i have tried have all been rank, i got one recently just to see if things had improved in the decade since i last tried one. nope. vegan american cheese slices were the only decent ones. but i don't think i've tried one of these nut ricotta type things so would def be willing to.

came across this article:

Vegetarians have 14% lower cancer risk than meat-eaters, study finds

Oxford University research also finds pescatarians have 10% reduced risk compared with those who eat meat regularly

www.theguardian.com

though they do point out that causation hasn't been demonstrated in most cases, and it could be due to other factors, like vegetarian BMIs generally being lower than those of meat eaters.

 

[G_Chem]

I figured you’d probably have some decent replacement for that.

So here’s my problem with nearly all the research surrounding this, is that vegetarian/vegan diets are always compared to standard diets that happen to involve a lot of poor quality meat among many other horrible things for you to eat.

When people go vegetarian they instantly have a higher awareness of the food they are putting into their body than the average person, and subsequently are going to eat high quality foods and more whole food as well hopefully..

Here’s a study showing increased rates of stroke and hemorrhage for vegetarians, while showing heart disease for average meat eaters.

Risks of ischaemic heart disease and stroke in meat eaters, fish eaters, and vegetarians over 18 years of follow-up: results from the prospective EPIC-Oxford study

Objective To examine the associations of vegetarianism with risks of ischaemic heart disease and stroke. Design Prospective cohort study. Setting The EPIC-Oxford study, a cohort in the United Kingdom with a large proportion of non-meat eaters, recruited across the country between 1993 and...

www.bmj.com

I also think females can get away with it a lot better than males cuz many of the protein sources commonly used, like soy, have phytoestrogens. While some think they’re harmless, only in small doses, like any estrogen mimicking compound over time there will be issues.

Soy as an endocrine disruptor: cause for caution? - PubMed

Endocrine disrupting compounds (EDCs) alter the function of the endocrine system and consequently cause adverse health effects. Phytoestrogens, natural plant compounds abundantly found in soy and soy products, behave as weak estrogen mimics or as antiestrogens. They are considered to be EDCs...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And finally a good article that kind of follows up my point on the idea vegetarian diets simply have more whole food, when researchers looked at “healthy” vegetarian diet compared to one filled with processed foods, they found no difference with the normal omnivore diet.

For Heart Health, Not All Plant-Based Diets Are Equal: Study

WEDNESDAY, March 18, 2020 (HealthDay News) -- A plant-based diet can benefit your heart, but only if you eat certain healthy types of food, researchers say. Th

consumer.healthday.com

It’s my belief that the healthiest way to eat is whole food with a good variety, eat too much of any one thing or eat too much unhealthy processed crap and there will be issues.

Our brain sizes increased to where they are now on the backs of many now extinct species, in fact once we did a good job wiping out many of those megafauna of old our brain size actually decreased a bit when we began agriculture.

I fully accept I’m a parasitic human that’s done more damage to this world than I can even begin to imagine but I also realize I’m product of my forefathers unquenched bloodthirst and the only way to live healthy in what I was given is to kill other innocent animals. Hence why I’m not having children, once I realized just how much extinction has happened because of humanity it hit home I made the right choice.

-GC

 

[Jabberwocky]

So here’s my problem with nearly all the research surrounding this, is that vegetarian/vegan diets are always compared to standard diets that happen to involve a lot of poor quality meat among many other horrible things for you to eat.

i think this is done because its the easiest and fairest comparison. when i turned vegetarian it was for ethical reasons and i didn't really care about the nutrition content of my food, i.e. most comparable to normal meat eaters who don't pay too much attention to their diet.

When people go vegetarian they instantly have a higher awareness of the food they are putting into their body than the average person, and subsequently are going to eat high quality foods and more whole food as well hopefully..

while its true we have a higher awareness of food, it does not automatically mean eating high quality foods.

i've had years where the main source of calories in my diet was sugar and i was lucky to get 5 portions of fruit and veg a week, let alone per day. i've met vegans who eat literally nothing but chips (fries in the US, not sure where you are) and look awful for it. its only a small subset of veggies/vegans who do it for nutritional reasons. at leats that i've met. the fact that it can be a lot better for you is just a bonus.

i agree about the fact that we have caused a lot of harm in our evolutionary history, moreso than other predators. but we can now reduce that harm in ways that say a lion cannot. this is what separates us from animals, the ability to act on reason rather than instinct (i do know animals can reason, but to a lesser extent than us), so i embrace it.

 

[Arnold]

deficient in iron.

Do you drink black tea?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Do you drink black tea?

almost continuously during the day. with oat milk so not technically black.

though its mostly decaf, i try to limit my caffeine consumption to half reasonable levels (no coffee).

 

[Arnold]

almost continuously during the day. with oat milk so not technically black.

though its mostly decaf, i try to limit my caffeine consumption to half reasonable levels (no coffee).

The 'with milk' is irrevelant, black tea stops your body from absorbing iron.

Do Coffee and Caffeine Inhibit Iron Absorption?

Some claim that coffee and other caffeinated beverages can interfere with iron absorption. This article explains how coffee and caffeine affect iron absorption.

www.healthline.com

Not the best link but loads of others out there on the subject.

Cutting out coffee and tea and eating lots of tuna pasta.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The 'with milk' is irrevelant, black tea stops your body from absorbing iron.

fucking hell! they are taking everything i love!! first it was heroin, then it was booze, and now its fucking tea argh!!

i can't believe i'd never heard of that. i do tend not to drink black tea straight after meals- i'll have a lemon and ginger tea followed by a peppermint one to try and support my poor digestive system, so that should be helping.

looks like having mostly decaf won't be helping me either from that perspective, though still minimising caffeine has other benefits.

 

[Robi]

im not a vegetarian because i love animals, its because i hate plants********CRUNCH********

 

[Arnold]

Also watch your unrefined sugar intake @chinup literally too much of the sweet stuff will affect your testosterone levels as well.

I hope ya doing well.

 

[Neuroborean]

didn't wanna start my own thread..... so i guess this can fit here.

i've been vegetarian for like over 25 years. just found out i'm deficient in iron. i was a lot as a teenager but that was cos i only ate one meal a day. now i eat like a fucking walrus.

also, i have loads of spinach, lentils, and have been taking a pre natal vitamin daily since september, which has 100% of my iron requirements.

so wtf? how has this happened?

symptoms include fatigue and headaches. i'd put this down to needing new glasses cos it was often when i was working, i.e. in front of a screen. plus it causes cold hands and feet which i thought was just cos i was slightly undereating. i guess i should be pleased there's a relatively simple fix.

Take some ayurvedic herbs, and nuts, that will do for the future.
Haritaki is a good one, and has a lot of different benefits, some shilajit would help too.


In my case I'm vegetarian since I started living on my own, I also convinced my mother and she is vegetarian too. I have been vegetarian since 2008 more or less and I also had iron deficiency, I was feeling like shit, to be honest, but it started getting better quite soon after getting the liquid iron stuff. I didn't think I was having bad food or less nutrients than normal, I think it's more complicated than that. I didn't have any problem again.
Maybe you had covid ? sars-cov-2 spike protein can mess a lot with metabolism/homeostasis specially iron.

 

[Neuroborean]

fucking hell! they are taking everything i love!! first it was heroin, then it was booze, and now its fucking tea argh!!

i can't believe i'd never heard of that. i do tend not to drink black tea straight after meals- i'll have a lemon and ginger tea followed by a peppermint one to try and support my poor digestive system, so that should be helping.

looks like having mostly decaf won't be helping me either from that perspective, though still minimising caffeine has other benefits.

Maybe you and @Arnold enjoy this article, I use guayusa and love it,

The Magic Of Guayusa, And The Truth | ATHLETE'S BREW

The health benefits and side effects of Guayusa tea. The good, the bad, and the interesting...

www.athletesbrew.co.uk

"COMMON MYTHS ABOUT GUAYUSA​

• It has a low tannin content. Misleading and (we are pretty sure) false It has a tannin content equal to and if not more than ordinary tea.*2 That’s not necessarily a bad thing, it’s even a good thing, since all tannins are polyphenols, and polyphenols are anti-oxidants. The marketing claim that the “tannins in coffee stain your teeth but Guayusa does not” needs investigation. Tannins are also known for blocking iron absorption, but further research has shown that only non-heme iron is blocked.*3
  • Although one thing about the tannins is definitely true from experience. Guayusa is definitely naturally sweeter and less bitter than comparable high tannin drinks like tea, coffee or yerba mate (ilex paraguariensis). This could be to do with the type of tannins. Neither do you experience the common ‘dry mouth’ feeling as is normally felt in other high tannin drinks. There must be a particular form of tannin that Guayusa is low in that is causing this difference.
• The L-theanine content is significant and works synergistically with the caffeine. False. The l-theanine content is negligible.
• The theobromine and theophylline content is significant. False. Again, both are of negligible amounts."

"The study itself is a double-blind crossover clinical trial comparing human consumption of 200mg of caffeine from AMATEA™ Guayusa extract to 200mg of caffeine from a green coffee extract. The results were nothing short of remarkable*14. Adrenalin levels in the subjects were 6-7x less for those that consumed the Guayusa extract. Meanwhile, norepinephrine, acetylcholine, serotonin and histamine levels were significantly higher. Evidently the bodies chemical response to guayusa compared to coffee is quite different, and this is what I will further investigate with you, to figure out exactly what is happening, how it effects to body, and hopefully figure out why it’s happening."