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The Surprising Failures of 12 Steps

i think you will find the relapse rates pretty close across the board whether its 12 step, rehab, rational recovery or whatever else..ive always thought recovery needs to be looked at from more of a biological standpoint than faith-based..
 
PsychedelicHaze said:
I hated the 12 steps and the books. I am agnostic and basically the only way for it to be effective would've been for me to believe in a god.

No thanks. I just became better from having long alone sober time.
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Yeah just staying sober for a period, using bluelight a lot and studying some basic psychology prove far more effective for some people.

The 12 step for me was kind of a turn off and gave recovery an uncomfortable 'scene' aspect, full of people who just really, really want to get high but are drinking pots of coffee instead and just talking about getting high. I mean... it was dreadful! I would go there just because i felt obligated, then i'd leave thinking about drugs. Just didn't work at all. Definitely is fueled by perpetuating the dependent mindset and sort of relies on the idea that nobody will ever actually heal.
 
belfort said:
ive always thought recovery needs to be looked at from more of a biological standpoint than faith-based..
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i don't have a problem with faith based, it's just that most rehabs and the courts etc. force it on you, there needs to be an alternative.

also why is the judge telling you to go to AA meeting not a violation of the constitution (seperation of church and state?) it got me out of doing a little bid (couple weeks) and i just had to go to aa once a week for 6 months one time so fuck it but still.
 
treezy z said:
i don't have a problem with faith based, it's just that most rehabs and the courts etc. force it on you, there needs to be an alternative.

also why is the judge telling you to go to AA meeting not a violation of the constitution (seperation of church and state?) it got me out of doing a little bid (couple weeks) and i just had to go to aa once a week for 6 months one time so fuck it but still.
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I agree with this so much, it should not be possible for the court to force you to attend a non-secular rehabilitation center/meetings if you don't wish.
 
treezy z said:
also why is the judge telling you to go to AA meeting not a violation of the constitution (seperation of church and state?)
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Exactly my thoughts. But, really, church and state are not so separate, if you think about it.
I mean, "In God We Trust" on the government's money?!:?
 
I think they are able to squirt the law because its your choice to accept the treatment.. pretty sure they are always willing to send you to the joint?
 
Well that is true if the only alternative option for rehabilitation or treatment is a theistic organization then something is fucking wrong.
I'm not really surprised at all, just frustrated and angry
 
I really dont think the fellowships will be around in any significant manor in fifty or even 10 years. more than a few of their ideas will but they will be gone for the most part.
 
I hate the whole culture of rehab. I have an ex drunk friend who rejects the term "recovering addict" because he quit drinking and thinks its insulting to have someone tell him he could relapse at any moment. I think there should be government paid non religious treatment offered. Imagine any other disease where your only choice was dealing with Jesus being forced down your throat. And that list of "addictions" is a joke. I have been hooked on cigs, that is an addiction. Hooked on coin collecting my be a compulsion but it is not an addiction. The addiction industry is getting big though and there is likely going to be more and more stuff listed as medical issues that really is just lack of self control. I would be pissed if i was an addict to see a bunch of easy to quit bad habits on same list as my chemical addiction that could kill me if i go cold turkey.
 
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I grew up spending a lot of time in various alanon-related programs, since both my parents were in and out of AA, NA etc. My mother was definitely helped by those programs, but she is a very socially dependent person who wanted to be healthy and she mainly needed to be around people who weren't using in order to stay clean. It was the community that helped her, not the theology. My dad hated it (only went on court order) but he had a few great sponsors who were able to help him stay clean for months at a time. I think a good friend or supportive, honest family does more to help people control their addictions than any ideology, and that is the best of AA's program.

It's harder for me to say the experience of growing up in alanon was good for my development. I feel like I was pathologized as a child in ala-tot. I grew up with a sense that everyone else had perfect lives and I was part of a damaged underclass. I was repeatedly told by alanon counselors that my brain was hardwired to self-destruct. It took a long time to shake off the alanon head trip. I remember being given coloring books with pictures of crying little girls labeled with words like "COPE" in bubble letters on the pages. Plus, most of the other kids were pretty disturbed and had really rough lives. I think if I were running the program, I would just do everything to give those kids the best time possible, nurture their talents and interests and fill their heads with great experiences, education and encouragement. I would NOT make them sit in a circle and wallow in their most traumatic memories week after week.

On the other hand, I have managed to become neither a dipsomaniac nor a religomaniac so maybe AA is the cure for itself.
 
treezy z said:
i don't have a problem with faith based, it's just that most rehabs and the courts etc. force it on you, there needs to be an alternative.

also why is the judge telling you to go to AA meeting not a violation of the constitution (seperation of church and state?)
Click to expand...

Denying a seriously ill/disabled person the right to die with some dignity or a gay couple the right to get married based solely on religious reasons is also a violation of separation of church and state but this is one nation under God so what are you gonna do.
 
I could criticize the basic principles of 12-step groups all day long, but the bottom line is that AA helped me put together some pretty significant periods of sobriety over the years. One of my character flaws, in addition to "not being able to be completely honest with myself," is that I have a strong need for novelty. This need has manifested itself in many ways ranging from drug use to my taste in music, to my taste in ideas, to, most importantly, my taste in people. I need a freakshow in my life, and have yet to find an institution better than AA/NA at providing such a collection of freaks.

In the past year I took a teaching job at a university and moved to a small, very conservative town. In my situation, seeking help to stay sober through AA is probably not the answer. Don't let the word "Anonymous" fool you -- people in small towns talk, and I have a public reputation that could be damaged if I were seen at an AA meeting. All it takes is one of my students getting a DWI and seeing me at one of their court-ordered AA meetings for the entire town to know I have a substance problem. Plus AA is standard sentencing for various drug and alcohol-related crimes, which automatically gives the program a "criminal" image in the minds of people unfamiliar with it.

Perhaps I'm just being paranoid. Still, I have a lot at stake that relies on a clean-cut public image, and will find ways other than AA/NA to satisfy my need for novelty.
 
Been to a few rehabs iop and inpatient, and for every time I came out I relapsed right away. The other times I've kicked on my own and stayed clean way longer. I know a guy who is a big na person, goes to lots of meetings, chugs coffee. I know it worked for him and that's awesome, but I was scraping the walls to get out...I'll never forget the first na meeting I had to go to was in the hood.and I see a kid I kinda knew and he yells out looks like we got a newcomer in the rooms. Right then I was like fuuuuuuxk this lol. And the kid in that na meeting that I kinda knew ended up overdosing a few years later.
 
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