College The student loan trap (rant thread)

[brokedownpalace10]

Like so many things, college has been taken over by the capitalist sharks and turned into a monopoly and a money maker.
A good education is not immune to having it's face painted and being put on the streets to serve the almighty dollar.
Nothing is free in the free world.

This anti (unrestrained) capitalism rant is not to say that capitalism is inherently bad, it's to say that capitalism without some guardrails will inevitably turn into crony capitalism... or Fascism.
But I repeat myself.

 

[Electrum1]

Lol

The moratorium on repaying student loans in America was a bad idea

How bad is now becoming clearer

www.economist.com

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Lol

The moratorium on repaying student loans in America was a bad idea

How bad is now becoming clearer

www.economist.com

The article requires a subscription.
What was the mechanism for more student loan debt? I want to read the whole thing.
People feeling more free to use their credit cards and having more total debt if you still include the student loan is certainly no surprise. I wonder what their total debt would be if the loan was not included? Likely lower, no?

 

[Electrum1]

The article requires a subscription.
What was the mechanism for more student loan debt? I want to read the whole thing.
People feeling more free to use their credit cards and having more total debt if you still include the student loan is certainly no surprise. I wonder what their total debt would be if the loan was not included? Likely lower, no?

"borrowers substitute increased private debt for paused public debt"

Debt Moratoria: Evidence from Student Loan Forbearance

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org

 

[brokedownpalace10]

"borrowers substitute increased private debt for paused public debt"

Debt Moratoria: Evidence from Student Loan Forbearance

Founded in 1920, the NBER is a private, non-profit, non-partisan organization dedicated to conducting economic research and to disseminating research findings among academics, public policy makers, and business professionals.

www.nber.org

That didn't answer my question. The whole quote is...

"We find a large stimulus effect, as borrowers substitute increased private debt for paused public debt. Comparing borrowers whose loans were frozen with borrowers whose loans were not frozen due to differences in whether the government owned the loans, we show that borrowers used the new liquidity to increase borrowing on credit cards, mortgages, and auto loans rather than avoid delinquencies."

So, that's still talking about more total debt if you include the student loan. I asked about the "more student loan debt".
If it's the fact that the kids kept going to school, again, of course that's true.
If the policy is implemented, both those "problems" disappear.
If it's blocked by the Republicans, then it's an issue. It's on them.

 

[Electrum1]

Yeah idk I read Karl Marx and still don't have an answer for you, weird

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Isn't "Communism" in todays political discourse when someone else is getting a government benefit and you're not eligible?

 

[Dead Machination]

I've always thought the most effective use of a college education would be to join the workforce right out of high school, and do a handful of different jobs to see what you enjoy, and are talented at, then go back to school for higher education in the specific field you are interested in.

I see so many people in college who don't know what they want to do specifically with their degree, and in my opinion, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Electrum1]

The Supreme Court on Friday struck down President Joe Biden's student loan forgiveness plan, denying tens of millions of Americans the chance to get up to $20,000 of their debt erased

Supreme Court strikes down Biden's student loan forgiveness plan

The Supreme Court on Friday struck down President Biden's student loan forgiveness plan, denying millions of Americans up to $20,000 of debt relief.

www.cnbc.com

By a 6 to 3 vote, the high court ruled that federal law does not authorize the Department of Education to cancel student loan debt.

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/30/1182216970/supreme-court-student-loan-forgiveness-decision-biden

 

[Dead Machination]

Supreme Court strikes down Biden's student loan forgiveness plan

The Supreme Court on Friday struck down President Biden's student loan forgiveness plan, denying millions of Americans up to $20,000 of debt relief.

www.cnbc.com

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/30/1182216970/supreme-court-student-loan-forgiveness-decision-biden

That's one of those things I have mixed feelings about. My wife has some student loan debt, not a lot, but enough that it would be nice to have some removed.

On the flip side, student loan debt is a debt just like any other, and I don't see why one specific group of people should have their debt forgiven, while others don't.

During "COVID", my business slowed down a bit and I had to put some new tools on a credit card. Just like an education, those tools were used to further my career. It seems unfair that somebody who went to school for their career versus somebody who already had a career should be treated differently when it comes to money owed.

Same with things like auto loans. In my opinion, it would be more important to have a vehicle than an education when it comes to finding, and holding, a job. If you can't get to work then skill level is irrelevant. Why not forgive auto loans too so more people can enter the work force?

If they really wanted to make a difference they would drop interest rates across the board for all types of pre-existing loans, not just forgive a specific group of debtors.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

That's one of those things I have mixed feelings about. My wife has some student loan debt, not a lot, but enough that it would be nice to have some removed.

On the flip side, student loan debt is a debt just like any other, and I don't see why one specific group of people should have their debt forgiven, while others don't.

During "COVID", my business slowed down a bit and I had to put some new tools on a credit card. Just like an education, those tools were used to further my career. It seems unfair that somebody who went to school for their career versus somebody who already had a career should be treated differently when it comes to money owed.

Same with things like auto loans. In my opinion, it would be more important to have a vehicle than an education when it comes to finding, and holding, a job. If you can't get to work then skill level is irrelevant. Why not forgive auto loans too so more people can enter the work force?

If they really wanted to make a difference they would drop interest rates across the board for all types of pre-existing loans, not just forgive a specific group of debtors.

Because education is good for America, just for one.

 

[Dead Machination]

Because education is good for America, just for one.

And people starting their own businesses, using credit during hard times to feed their family, or forgiving debt so people can stay in their homes isn't?

I would agree in half a second to give people in need the opportunity to receive money from the government for education. What I don't agree with, is people like my wife and I, who have zero issue paying back that loan, being given some sort of break on a loan that we chose to take.

I would rather see that 42 billion dollars pumped back into the education system rather than given to private individuals.

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Not sure you understand what I meant. When was the last time you went to a medical specialist who was an American? Educated Americans and higher knowledge is good for America. Using credit cards and staying in homes is good for Americans.

And, yes, money for education is good for America too. Better would be snatching the higher educational system back from being a greedy, profit driven monster.

So, yeah, reform was needed too... and included.

They were throwing money at my daughter. Filling her head with how easy it would all be to pay back. Student loan debt is the housing crisis of our age.

I can't see comparing this to credit card debt or auto loans.

 

[JackARoe]

Like so many things, college has been taken over by the capitalist sharks and turned into a monopoly and a money maker.

My brother graduated Syracuse University with a chemical engineering degree in 1982. The student loan for the whole thing was about $25,000. for 4 years. He had some left to pay on that when he was killed and the load was wiped. But that same 4 years with the same degree is costing upwards $200,000 + these days.

Also these days classes get cut, they do less time, give the students way more time off. So really, the whole thing is an out in the open scam. It was not always like that.

Forget college, everything will be automated in the future as humans are assholes. The bottom line is money, not people. Learn anything computers and you will always have a job. I paid $10,000 for a programmer degree from CHUBB in 1998. That was more reasonable and set me up for life. Although I am sick of computers. lol

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

"Some are even objecting to the actions we announced today, which follows through on relief borrowers were promised, but never given, even when they had been making payments for decades," Biden said. "The hypocrisy is stunning, and the disregard for working and middle-class families is outrageous."

Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona praised the move as student loan borrowers for years had fallen through the "cracks of a broken system that failed to keep accurate track of their progress" towards forgiveness.

"By fixing past administrative failures, we are ensuring everyone gets the forgiveness they deserve, just as we have done for public servants, students who were cheated by their colleges, and borrowers with permanent disabilities, including veterans," Cardona added.

"This Administration will not stop fighting to level the playing field in higher education."

Joe Biden wiping out billions in student loan debt sparks Republican fury

Michigan congresswoman Lisa McClain described the loan forgiveness scheme as "a slap in the face to hard-working taxpayers" who have already paid off debts.

www.newsweek.com

so what the hell is going on now?

im one of those ppl whose had a loan for 30 years, that never went away, and it should've by now

 

[deficiT]

Anybody take out student loans that will likely never be paid in full? I did

The very first day of grad school, our entire cohort was in a classroom and one of the profs literally told us not to work while in school, that student loans were a better option that could be paid back with the wonderful careers we would get after graduating. Big mistake. I think only one or two out of the whole group worked at least part time jobs. The rest of us fell for the lie.

I think my total after a little bit in undergrad and for a two year grad program was around $80K. I've always been on a payment program based on earnings, which means a sizable chunk each month but with enough left over for rent and food. After nearly 10 years of making the minimum payments, my balance has increased by over $10K due to interest accrued.

What bothers me is, if people like Alex Jones can file bankruptcy to avoid paying their defamation lawsuits, why can't we claim bankruptcy to relieve ourselves of this predatory crippling lifetime of debt? Believe me, if I could sue the professor or my university for selling us into taking out loans, I would. But I don't think that is even an option and if there was, surely there is a statute of limitations that has expired. Hell, I was full blown mentally ill and on Disability payments while in grad school, so I could even claim my believing I could get a high paying career was a delusion of grandeur. I just don't know what to do other than hope for some kind of reprieve from my rich Uncle Sam.

LESSON: If any of you find yourselves in a similar situation, please treat it like gambling. Either don't do it at all or only take out what you can easily pay back and supplement the rest with grants, scholarships, or by working. I would honestly advise not doing it at all. I've seen articles of people who only took out $20K, paid like $10K in monthly payments, and with interest accrued still end up owing quadruple the original amount.

Yeah I have like 20k at least. Went to two universities and a community college. Think I've only got like 19 credits. Shit I sucked at school, but I had my reasons.

 

[Dead Machination]

.... Learn anything computers and you will always have a job. I paid $10,000 for a programmer degree from CHUBB in 1998. That was more reasonable and set me up for life. Although I am sick of computers. lol

Have you seen what something like chat GPT you can do with coding? You can literally ask it to write you a specific program, and whatever language, that does whatever function. It even includes instructions on how to modify it to suit your needs specifically, it's very accurate, and even debugs itself.

I don't know how to code at all and have a bunch of custom programs written by AI for my Raspberry PI.

AI is going to take over the programming sector soon. It won't be long before it's able to design electronic circuits as well, eliminating the need for many electronic engineers.

I think the "traditional" trades are the bulletproof career for the future now. Short of a literal robot, AI can't get under your house to diagnose and fix a leaky pipe, fix downed power lines during a storm, or find and fix a broken transmission solenoid. There can definitely be AI and robotics that will be helpful, but those jobs will always need some sort of human intervention.

 

[Shady's Fox]

Microsoft own orbitary system now under pseudonim of "windows", was first advanced prototype of AI available to public. When you right-click and execute a command unlike absconded Linux sister, you do not need to witness the process behind curtain. Microsoft proved that AI can reinvent the way we use certain manual products to our advantage. ChatGPT now powered by nVIDIA AI, will probably be a cometitor for Bing, Google and soon probably expanded all way into public areas ( food delivery, malls/bathrooms, electronic products) so on. Current magnates with their mansions do not have AI danger alarm, is transfered to app and that application reports daily how was front gate. Less likely that ChatGPT will visit these acidic experiences and is again in handbelt of corporations = Panasonic, Philips, ABV, etc

Have you seen what something like chat GPT you can do with coding? You can literally ask it to write you a specific program, and whatever language, that does whatever function. It even includes instructions on how to modify it to suit your needs specifically, it's very accurate, and even debugs itself.

I don't know how to code at all and have a bunch of custom programs written by AI for my Raspberry PI.

AI is going to take over the programming sector soon. It won't be long before it's able to design electronic circuits as well, eliminating the need for many electronic engineers.

I think the "traditional" trades are the bulletproof career for the future now. Short of a literal robot, AI can't get under your house to diagnose and fix a leaky pipe, fix downed power lines during a storm, or find and fix a broken transmission solenoid. There can definitely be AI and robotics that will be helpful, but those jobs will always need some sort of human intervention.

You can have any jobs online which involves remote distance and by unwanting of computer. Learn python/Word/Adobe classroom and that's it.

few even at Mitubishi I saw a workplace open few days ago.. where you had to do maintance over logs of industrial device ( sand drills/AC's, light area and whatever else they do analysis with — where factory is and only requirement was Java.

job was in Japan with free rent if not available. Probably enough for who doesn't afford.

 

[JackARoe]

I think the "traditional" trades are the bulletproof career for the future now. Short of a literal robot, AI can't get under your house to diagnose and fix a leaky pipe, fix downed power lines during a storm, or find and fix a broken transmission solenoid. There can definitely be AI and robotics that will be helpful, but those jobs will always need some sort of human intervention.

You bring up an excellent point. What I thought of is two years ago we had our roof redone. When the insurance guy came out he sent a drone up to take pictures. Some years earlier people were sent up so that is an example of automation taking the place of humans.

The other good point is human interaction is going to be needed with a lot of professions. Not just traditional roles. Yes AI can write code if it is defined correctly. The definition is where a human is needed. So I believe AI is a long way away from being self sufficient. Also if we do make it that far with AI a robot will be created to fix a leaky pipe under a house. All of that is a long way away. And it will take programmers to help develop. Then just after that humans become redundant. Like the Matrix. Or we will be used for batteries.

It is funny I had mentioned I am sick of computers. Just before covid I was thinking if I were a waiter or chef I would always have a job as people go out to eat a lot. As covid went on I saw restaurants and other places to eat shut down, which over rode any bright idea I had about always having work as a waiter. We never know what makes anything obsolete.

Given the amount of jobs out there for database work I still think it will be a good profession for years to come. But I do agree on the traditional trades being the safest. My brother manages car dealerships and many years ago computers were taking over. Yet they still need humans around for clarity and other traditional things that a robot can not do. Yet. We'll check back in 50 to 100 years.

 

[Shady's Fox]

You bring up an excellent point. What I thought of is two years ago we had our roof redone. When the insurance guy came out he sent a drone up to take pictures. Some years earlier people were sent up so that is an example of automation taking the place of humans.

The other good point is human interaction is going to be needed with a lot of professions. Not just traditional roles. Yes AI can write code if it is defined correctly. The definition is where a human is needed. So I believe AI is a long way away from being self sufficient. Also if we do make it that far with AI a robot will be created to fix a leaky pipe under a house. All of that is a long way away. And it will take programmers to help develop. Then just after that humans become redundant. Like the Matrix. Or we will be used for batteries.

It is funny I had mentioned I am sick of computers. Just before covid I was thinking if I were a waiter or chef I would always have a job as people go out to eat a lot. As covid went on I saw restaurants and other places to eat shut down, which over rode any bright idea I had about always having work as a waiter. We never know what makes anything obsolete.

Given the amount of jobs out there for database work I still think it will be a good profession for years to come. But I do agree on the traditional trades being the safest. My brother manages car dealerships and many years ago computers were taking over. Yet they still need humans around for clarity and other traditional things that a robot can not do. Yet. We'll check back in 50 to 100 years.

AI shouldn't exchange in same room and from same wardrobe as homosapiens even if were the blacksmithers of how they conduct with and against us by limits. I reported your post for no logic as main crossfire. I can say with hands on heart you are just echo chamber of undeveloped concepts.