The official No Limit Texas Hold 'Em thread

[Infinite Jest]

I guess if you know you played it right (which it sure sounds like you did) then you can take consolation from that. Keep playing like that and the results should take care of themselves.

How did you find the live play compared to your normal online games? And what levels do you play at - I know you're a tourney man, what's your buy-in these days?

Oh, btw: I still owe you a debt for reminding us about patience: in the game last night I was 50th out of 70 at one point (45 got paid) and I just kept plugging away, waiting to hit, and I did.

 

[Yippee Skippy]

I just need to learn how to get aggressive, how to play back at someone who's bullying me. Any tips? (I was basically card dead and the chip leader was betting 3-4xBB on something like half the hands. With me only holding 10xBB or thereabouts, can I re-raise with nothing and hope he folds?).

With 10bb's it's basically push/fold. If you suspect him to be raising light, just shove over top of him with any reasonable holding (KQ+, 88+, etc). If it's folded to you in late position and you have a good hand - shove. With that small a stack, there's no room to be fancy, and picking up the blinds and antes can improve your stack by about 20% - that's significant!

 

[fozzy nutz]

been playing on www.intertops.com been doing really good. there's not alot of good players been coming in the money in the big multi-table re-buy tourneys about 40% of the time. started off putting $50 in focused on the sit and go (low limit) built a bank roll then played in the multi rebuys which in 3 monthes ive built to over 5 k. if you have the displine to play a tight aggresive style focused on postion and resist the urge to bluff you will make money.

on a side note has anyone used software like like holdemmanger or real time? did it help you play? i'd love to track what happens when i raise or straight call aq,aj ,a10, mid pairs. suited connectors

 

[fozzy nutz]

I just need to learn how to get aggressive, how to play back at someone who's bullying me. Any tips? (I was basically card dead and the chip leader was betting 3-4xBB on something like half the hands. With me only holding 10xBB or thereabouts, can I re-raise with nothing and hope he folds?).

How are you guys doing?

when facing a bully and you have a small stack live 10 xbb or online about 15 or 20 the bb the key is making them make the decision not you. the key if you get a good hand (short handed 6 or less)ak, aq, aj, a strong mid-pair which i mean as jacks 10's maybe 9's and 8's. you push all in into a pot that's called or unopened i still might do it into an once raised pot. the key is to take the power away fron the big stack make him make the decision not you. if you have a big hand ace's, kings maybe queens i trap i'll let a big stack draw out on me my key is to make sure i get all my money in the pot. if i get beat on those hands? i don't care smooth call pre-flop, smooth call or check on the flop unless its a scarey baord then push all in if not do it on the turn to seem desperate. i'm a little hammered right now i'll come back to explain later.

if you completely card dead wait for suited conectors, two face cards, hell even 10/9 suited and the pot is unopened try to take away his pot odds from calling.

 

[alasdairm]

How did you find the live play compared to your normal online games? And what levels do you play at - I know you're a tourney man, what's your buy-in these days?

i much prefer to play live as now my card-play is automatic and i can spend more time watching players. most tourney's i play are in the $35-$75 range but they're mostly a luxury these days. i'm not playing much at all due to my circumstances but i'm looking forward to playing regularly again.

alasdair

 

[Infinite Jest]

Thanks for the comments Yippy and fozzy. I'm fully comfortable getting my money in with pairs or suited/big aces; my problem was that (in this game) I was basically card dead and blinding out. I'm talking hands like Q4 off.

Now he was raising so much he can't have had good cards every single hand - but is it still possible to play back at someone when holding junk yourself? (I guess it is, obviously...so maybe I just needed to push and hope). Obviously, if I'd had anything half decent I would have got my money in, the problem was doing it with a weak hand.

Oh well. I'm definitely improving. I'm getting better at putting people on a hand. And I played a three-table sit and go yesterday and was obviously the best (or one of best three) there - whereas a few months ago I'd have been average, at best, at that level Still low stakes, but I'm starting to get there.

 

[alasdairm]

^ hey s

on your question about bullies, i find that i most often get myself in trouble with those guys because of poor position play. how much attention do you tend to give to position when you're considering each and every move?

alasdair

 

[Mehm]

I've been having trouble making tight folds and its been really killing me. For instance, I was just in an 18 person 6.50 buy in on Pokerstars. 8 people left and i'm chip leader with 6500. A tight guy raises 4x bb (800) from early position, there is one caller (who is now all in) and I have qq in the bb. There is about 2000 in the pot and 600 more to call. I call and the flop is a low rainbow. Villan raises 2000 (looks like a big slick continuation bet to me) and I go all in on top. He beats me with a low set.

I think I should have thrown this away pre-flop, or re-raised big pre-flop....I just seem to bust out with the second best hand constantly.

Any thoughts?

 

[Yippee Skippy]

A tight guy raises 4x bb (800) from early position, there is one caller (who is now all in) and I have qq in the bb. There is about 2000 in the pot and 600 more to call. I call and the flop is a low rainbow. Villan raises 2000 (looks like a big slick continuation bet to me) and I go all in on top. He beats me with a low set.

I think I should have thrown this away pre-flop, or re-raised big pre-flop....I just seem to bust out with the second best hand constantly.

Any thoughts?

Isolation shove pre-flop.

 

[Max Power]

Isolation shove pre-flop.

Agreed.

If not a shove, at least a nice re-raise. If the tight player comes over the top, run for the hills.

Also, you should have a feel for how the player plays after the flop, or more specifically, how often they use the continuation bet.

 

[Yippee Skippy]

If not a shove, at least a nice re-raise.

Yeah, that would depend on stack sizes.

If the tight player comes over the top, run for the hills.

They can't come over the top of a shove!

Also, you should have a feel for how the player plays after the bet, or more specifically, how often they use the continuation bet.

That would require paying attention and possibly taking notes. Isn't that cheating?

 

[Max Power]

You're right, they can't come over the top of a shove, but . . .

the only hands that are gonna call your all-in bet in that situation is a better hand.

At least if a tight player re-raises you, you can get out alive and live to fight another . . . hand.

You're being sarcastic about the cheating right? You don't have to take notes, just pick up on their betting patterns and remember a couple. If that's cheating, I've never played an honest game of poker in my life.

 

[Yippee Skippy]

You're right, they can't come over the top of a shove, but . . .

the only hands that are gonna call your all-in bet in that situation is a better hand.

Don't live in fear of monsters under your bed. There ain't a lot of better hands out there and being Chip-Leader, you've got a bit of FE, so they're gonna laydown a bunch of shit. And if they have AA/KK you can always suck out.

You're being sarcastic about the cheating right?

You caught that, huh?

 

[Max Power]

No, a fearful and scared play would be either smooth-calling or laying the hand down after the intial bet on the flop.

A re-raise of that bet will get a TIGHT player to fold. I'm not advising this move against anyone, but the guy with the question specifically said tight.

So why risk all your chips and possibly lose the hand (either to trips as in this case, or AA/KK) when you can accomplish the same with less?

Good luck sucking out against AA/KK on a low rainbow flop. Hope that 8 percent works out for you.

 

[Yippee Skippy]

No, a fearful and scared play would be either smooth-calling or laying the hand down after the intial bet on the flop.

A re-raise of that bet will get a TIGHT player to fold. I'm not advising this move against anyone, but the guy with the question specifically said tight.

So why risk all your chips and possibly lose the hand (either to trips as in this case, or AA/KK) when you can accomplish the same with less?

Good luck sucking out against AA/KK on a low rainbow flop. Hope that 8 percent works out for you.

We might not be on the same page here - I was advocating a shove PRE-flop. I hadn't gotten into post-flop play at all. You're not risking all your chips either. You've got everyone covered. Obviously without stack-sizes, it's hard to say for sure, but what are you gonna do, reraise the guy for 1/2 his stack and fold to his push? Pot-odds say "no fuckin' way" - not with all that dead money in the pot. Pretty much any raise you put in gives him odds to set-mine too.

Also

There is about 2000 in the pot and 600 more to call. I call and the flop is a low rainbow. Villan raises 2000 (looks like a big slick continuation bet to me) and I go all in on top.

To Mehm: 2000 into a 2800 pot isn't a c-bet. And, what'd you do, check the flop, or was he in the SB? Can you post the whole hand w/stack sizes, tourney standings and pay structure?
To Max: Now, what are you gonna do here? Fold? Because he might have AA/KK? What if you had reraised and he just called? It seems OP check/shoved flop. Probably the villain couldn't (correctly) fold any overpair or even overcards with all that $$ in there.

So, I guess we agree that a reraise is in order, but the amount can't be determined unless we know some more details.

 

[Max Power]

Yeah, chip counts are crucial. . . . along with a lot of other missing info.


POKER RAWKS MY SAWKS!!!!111

 

[Infinite Jest]

^ hey s

on your question about bullies, i find that i most often get myself in trouble with those guys because of poor position play. how much attention do you tend to give to position when you're considering each and every move?

alasdair

I missed this post. The specific example I was thinking of was a final table, down to about 5 players. So I was mostly either open-folding bad hands, or getting them in the blinds. Bully on my right, so he was always UTG when I was BB, and he would open with a 4-5xBB raise often. Clearly he was doing it with marginal hands (unless he was on an incredibly lucky run). But since I had junk too, not much I could do.

(As a more general answer: I tend to play a lot of hands from late position if I can get in cheaply. If people start raising a lot from the blinds, then I re-consider limping. I'll limp connectors or low pairs, maybe suited aces, from mid position, and consider throwing them away if there's a big raise. Generally raise with big pairs or AK/AQ, but might limp then re-raise if there's an aggressive player behind me).

 

[alasdairm]

Bully on my right, so he was always UTG when I was BB, and he would open with a 4-5xBB raise often. Clearly he was doing it with marginal hands (unless he was on an incredibly lucky run). But since I had junk too, not much I could do.

yep - your stacks become a big factor then. if your gut tells you he's doing this with marginal hands, you have to take a chance and put him to the test with a reraise. if you're just getting nothing, put in a decent reraise - even one which forces him to make a decision for all of his chips - with nothing. if he folds, show him the bluff with "don't think you can just sit there and push me around". that or get your coat and leave gracefully

my mantra is becoming "you can't win if you don't bet". obviously, there are many variables but very generally speaking, at the level i play, aggressive play pays off.

alasdair

 

[Infinite Jest]

Thanks

Picking up on the set mining discussion above, would anyone care to comment on this hand?

$1 rebuys tournament, we're after the first break so no rebuys or add-ons available. 81 places paid (but 1st is $550 and 9th is only $30, so you really need to make final table). 650 entrants, 300 left.

I'm in 150th with about 10K chips. At one stage had 14K, but took a bit of a beating chasing a straight flush. Most (7 or 8) of our table have plenty of chips in relation to the blinds.

Blinds 150/300; ante 25.

I'm in late position (7 or 8 if dealer is 9). I've got AA.

First to act raises to 1200. 2ndTA calls, 3rdTA (good player with biggest stack at table) calls.

Folded to me; there's about 4500 in the pot, with three players in and the dealer and blinds to act.

I raise to 4200.

Original raiser folds, others just call.

Flop is J32 rainbow. First to act is all-in, next guy calls. about 20K in pot and I have 6K left so I call.

First player has QQ, 2nd (good player) has 33 for a set. It stands up and I'm out, and he's the new chip leader.

Comments? Should I have raised more? I was trying to isolate to one or two opponents, so I should have been happy to have 2 in there? Should I have figured I was up against a set, and folded post flop? More importantly, should he have folded his 33 after I re-raised and the other guy flat-called? Or was it worth him staying in and hoping for what happened?

 

[alasdairm]

laying down aces is the hardest thing. but if a guy's all in and the next guy just calls, there is something of a red flag.

aa is so hard to play. i'll very occasionally slow play it and hope to hit a set but, again depending on position, i'm beginning to think the only approach is all-in pre-flop, hope you get one or maybe two calls from somebody else with a poorer pair or high cards and hope it holds up.

i hate hoping when i'm playing poker...



alasdair