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Another question: does anybody know how rc vendors or their suppliers create these cannabinoid containing c-liquids. Something so lipophilic as these aminoalkylindoles don’t solve that great in glycerin I believe. Do they use ultrasonic radiation or something like that?
 
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I think that it it is possible to produce a snappy answer -but often their isn't a SINGLE reason for a particular action. I learnt of the hydrogen-bond between the 4-OH and the amine in the mid-90s, but that was before science REALLY looked at hydrogen-bonding as explanation for the CNS activity of many compounds.

I was quite surprised that this idea is 'new' but I hope people can extend it to include many, many compounds.

I mean, I'm pleased that Izo brought it up but you would be amazed by how little it's action is considered. It doesn't work with the majority of actives but I would argue that people with an eye to design should consider it.

It's just one more of those numerous functions that make a compound cross the BBB.

To be fair, RO5 is a much better and more general key and yet things like Δ9-THC ARE active. I do not know the details, but protein binding are key. I should add that I heartily disagree with people designing RCs that rely on protein binding. There isn't the technology to check safety.

Can you imagine being one of the chemists who developed thalidomide, TAB08 or even (and this is the worst) rosiglitazone. The first was banned immediately, the latter ONLY destroyed the lives of trial subjects (All Trials would have exposed risk) but the latter is still used and kills about 810,000 people annum (compared to people given alternative). Which is worse, which shows the most cowardice?

You cannot claim that the evidence is unavailable.... but rosiglitazon had a HUGE amount of money invested. That is what is scary. The experts can see a problem but their NDas mean they cannot speak out. Oh, and for those who say that they SHOULD speak out, you would be amazed at the legal and illegal pressure applies.
 
I would be dubious about vaping anything. H & C were DESIGNED to be vaped, but many compounds are a liquid until they are salted.

I mean, methaqualone is s low BP solid as is glutethimide, but both have quite low MW to begin with.

People who smoke meth are beyond me. I mean, the ling damage must be significant.

I HAVE succeeded in vaping diazepam by adding 20% caffeine to the pure powder but in truth, I am GLAD it isn't sold in such a manner. I bet it's as harmful as methaqualone (o homologue) smoked.

In the UK at least, I can honestly see smokable methaqualone selling for the same price as freebase H or C. The hook is JUST as strong/ God forbid some of the analogues come on-stream. Imagine a ludw-type-hit for £5! It would kill millions.
 
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Fertile said:
People who smoke meth are beyond me. I mean, the ling damage must be significant.
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Ever harder on the tissue are vaped cathinones. I was such a mess with vaping pyrrolidino ketones two or three times that I hurt my tongue so much that was bloody.
 
The cathinones are at least thermally stable The =O & N: interact (hydrogen bonding) which is why primary, secondary and tertiary amines are all active. Amazing to think that`diethylpropion was discovered in 1927.

I'm just waiting for someone to introduce a clofenciclan analogue as synthetic cocaine. I DID play around with structure a little and 2 minor alterations provide local anesthetic activity (so not painful to snort), the second to increase dopamine release.... but it's 1 step from commercial chemicals so CHEAP.
 
Something that just came up. I never read anywhere that the gabapentanoids cause withdrawal. Is that so?
 
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Horrible dirty drug. I guess the problem is that people will not pay much for downers. I think even clomethiazole caps (333mm) would only sell 3 for £10.
 
Do tolerance and dependence have a direct relationship? Or are they essentially 2 different things?

I guess it's different for every drug?
 
Good question. At least when it comes down to opioids I think both have to do with something called beta-arrestines in the body. But I’m not an expert.
 
I have posted reference to a paper that deals with a new class of opioid that does not cause beta arrestin 2 recruitment.

I have to admit that I do not know exactly why it acts so. Biased ligands with more DOP,KOP and or NOP affinity that produce analgesia with much less reliance on MOP affinity were researched.... then these people went 1 further.

I have NO idea if it's 'fun' or if it will reverse a rattle, but it's a good idea.

I still rate Helmut Schmidhammer who discovered 14-methoxymetopon. It's analgesic action is x500 morphine BUT it's MOP affinity isn't any higher than oxymorphone.... and of course you need 1/50th as much so not likely to lead to abuse or dependence.
 
You can do so many things on that 6-position with the phenantrene type opioids and all the time you get something stronger than morphine. Now I only recall metopon as a substance to which something (methyl) was added to the 5 position. Anybody know of other groups added there?
 
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Anything bigger than a -CH3 seems to reduce affinity. If you think about it, it overlays the 3-methyl of prodine. I don't know if someone found metopon and applied the idea to prodine or the reverse - but whatever, it increases 'receptor recognition' which is a posh way of saying 'we don't REALLY know'.

It's worth overlaying some things to see WHY they are active.

AH-7921 overlays MPPP almost perfectly.
U-47700 overlays prodine almost perfectly.

And although I think a LOT of people know that allylprodine is some x23M in animal models, nobody has tried overlaying the N-allyl homologue of U-47700. Of course, it's going to be MORE active because there are 4 enantiomers of allylprodine, just 2 of the N-allyl homologue of U-47700.

In fact, I wonder if the 2 isomers of U4 can be resolved. If you could do so with the N-allyl - that's heading for fentanyl potency.... with a 1 step synthesis.
 
izo said:
ive got a phenomenon with 3-mec that i never had with any other drug: i take it orally or rectally and need 50-70mg max, its mediocre. i take it nasally and its fully active at 15-20mg, feels like methylone and i have a great time. what this? my wonder noose?
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I had two 3-mec samples lab tested and they both contained 3-cec. Fucking blows
 
Would it be possible that 2c-ef/2c-t-21 formed fluoroacetate when incorporated? If so, would the amounts be negligable?

Any predictions on 2c-yn/doyn toxicity?
 
2c-ef doesn’t release fluoroacetate, 2Ct-21 does but as you said the amount is negligible per dosing. No idea about your second question.
 
izo said:
2c-ef doesn’t release fluoroacetate, 2Ct-21 does but as you said the amount is negligible per dosing. No idea about your second question.
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why is that exclusive to 2c-t-21? Sulphur and carbon have a very similar electronegativity.
 
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