what was your usage like to get into w/d in the first place?
I was dosing once in the morning and once in the evening, 6-10 grams of bali each time.
what was your usage like to get into w/d in the first place?
To the people calling me out as some sort of kratom hater: I'm twice the scientist you'll ever be, guys! You can get a GCMS and then come talk to me about your findings. If you're jamming kratom powder in your face and reporting bioassay results, that's not really "analysis".
I do GCMS testing on the kratom I consume. Extract the leaf with methanol and chloroform. Barring a few exceptions, the major alkaloid is always mitragynine, 60-70% of the plant's alkaloid balance. The remaining alkaloids visible to me are things like isomers of mitragynine, rhynchophylline/corynoxines, and dehydrogenated/demethylated analogs. I don't believe for a second that there is a superactive compound in there that prevents addiction. I've looked at alkaloid extracts too. Some extracts have no alkaloids in them, some are 100% alkaloid material. The good stuff has little crystals in it and looks sort of like instant coffee. The amount of any yohimbe-related alkaloids is trivial at best. Again, it's stuff like mitragynine and its desmethyl analog.
Mitragynine is a full agonist at opioid receptors. That's been proven. There's no evidence that it harms the liver directly. I've heard of stuff like bile duct blockages caused by low intestinal motility, though. That's probably just from the opioid effects. People get the same sort of blockages on drugs like morphine. Mitragynine also has activity at adrenergic receptors, it's structure is very similar to other agonist like rauwolscine.
I have a feeling that most of the differentiation of effects is psychological. I don't see a lot of difference in alkaloid profile between "stimulating" and "sedating" strains, aside from a slightly higher alkaloid concentration in the sedative ones. I believe that mitragynine on its own has dose-dependent effects. Sort of like DXM... there's at least two 'plateaus'. At lower doses it's mostly adrenergic and stimulating, at higher doses it gains an opioid activity.
To put things in perspective, heroin has been around for more than 100 years and opium has been known for thousands. Just because there is a history of use doesn't make them risk-free. Just because it's a natural plant product doesn't mean you get to use it every day and get away with it. Regular opium use probably isn't harmful physically, but you'll still get dependent.
Also, whoever thinks cannabis doesn't cause dependence needs to move to the West Coast and become a habitual pot smoker. It's hard to believe that there are no withdrawal effects at all when you just can't eat, or get restful sleep without a few tokes. Just because you can ignore the signs of withdrawal, doesn't mean they're not there.
I'm not making any claims about the safety or efficacy of kratom, nor saying you can't take it on a regular basis. I just want to be absolutely crystal clear that kratom is indeed an opioid drug, and it should be treated like one. It doesn't exert its effects through magic. It's an opioid. It is entirely possible to overdose and kill or injure yourself on too much kratom if the stars align just right and you're especially reckless. Anyone saying otherwise is a liar... No drug is 100% perfectly safe. Someone could even OD on ayahuasca if they put their mind to it.
Have there been many kratom fatalities? Obviously not or it'd be banned. Could there be in the future? You bet.
Does dairy really diminish kratoms effects? I've read it does but then I've read numerous accounts of people mixing with yogurt. What if I dosed kratom, waited to feel effects then made a milk shake? I ask bc I had a tooth pulled (don't do drugs lol) and kratom is my only pain reliever (unfortunately my dentist knows me personally n won't rx shit) n soft food is all I can eat, a las the need for a milk shake. Ideas?
Thanks
Kratom is strange, one thing I don't get about is the dose response curve. For example today I took a medium-lowish dose and I feel great, I have a good opiate buzz going with pain relief. Other times I will take much more than this and not even get this much of an opiate effect. But its not correct to conclude that less is more either, because sometimes I take this dose and get no opiate effects at all and need to take a high dose. It just doesnt make a whole lot of sense. I never know what kind of high I am going to get when I take kratom.
The less is more is bullshit. I don't care what anybody says. I've been taking this stuff for years and years and it just doesn't hold up. "Less is more" holds up for any drug if you manage to get your tolerance low enough. 8(
Only drug I've seen this personally semi-effective for is bupe.
Couple of questions: Is there a low enough dose i could take to get effects without it causing constipation, or minial such that it would be manageable? I have a hemmoroid so dont wanna make it worse
Second: if its boiled does that destroy any of the active ingredients at all or no? Being a hypochondriac i feel better boiling off any of the germs, tapeworms etc that the 3rd world thais may have left on there.
Berdo I've never had a problem with constipation from kratom, it's relatively weak in that aspect compared to other opioids. You can always take it with a stool softener and/or laxitive if you have an issue w it.
SEATTLE STRANGER: I couldn't quote you for some odd reason.
I just wanted to point out that this is how it is FOR YOU but I've read many accounts on here saying otherwise.
I personally am a noob to Kratom, having only done it on 7 seperate days, but others in this thread have referred to Kratom withdrawal as "a living hell with joint pain, restlessness, anxiety, insomnia, naseau, hot and cold flashes" and other symptoms.
I'm sure you know more about Kratom than me, but I wouldn't want someone inexperienced reading this to assume that Kratom withdrawals are easy and no big deal to go through.
I personally am going to assume that they are terrible so I don't ever have to go through them because if they are as bad as SOME posters have said they are FOR THEM...that's more than I want to have to go through.
It sounds like your personal brain and body chemistry makes Kratom withdrawal easy for you, but just from what I've read I don't believe that Kraotm is 90% psychologically addictive only, as it's an opioid and opioid's have serious physical withdrawal symptoms.
To the people calling me out as some sort of kratom hater: I'm twice the scientist you'll ever be, guys! You can get a GCMS and then come talk to me about your findings. If you're jamming kratom powder in your face and reporting bioassay results, that's not really "analysis".
I do GCMS testing on the kratom I consume. Extract the leaf with methanol and chloroform. Barring a few exceptions, the major alkaloid is always mitragynine, 60-70% of the plant's alkaloid balance. The remaining alkaloids visible to me are things like isomers of mitragynine, rhynchophylline/corynoxines, and dehydrogenated/demethylated analogs. I don't believe for a second that there is a superactive compound in there that prevents addiction. I've looked at alkaloid extracts too. Some extracts have no alkaloids in them, some are 100% alkaloid material. The good stuff has little crystals in it and looks sort of like instant coffee. The amount of any yohimbe-related alkaloids is trivial at best. Again, it's stuff like mitragynine and its desmethyl analog.
Mitragynine is a full agonist at opioid receptors. That's been proven. There's no evidence that it harms the liver directly. I've heard of stuff like bile duct blockages caused by low intestinal motility, though. That's probably just from the opioid effects. People get the same sort of blockages on drugs like morphine. Mitragynine also has activity at adrenergic receptors, it's structure is very similar to other agonist like rauwolscine.
I have a feeling that most of the differentiation of effects is psychological. I don't see a lot of difference in alkaloid profile between "stimulating" and "sedating" strains, aside from a slightly higher alkaloid concentration in the sedative ones. I believe that mitragynine on its own has dose-dependent effects. Sort of like DXM... there's at least two 'plateaus'. At lower doses it's mostly adrenergic and stimulating, at higher doses it gains an opioid activity.
To put things in perspective, heroin has been around for more than 100 years and opium has been known for thousands. Just because there is a history of use doesn't make them risk-free. Just because it's a natural plant product doesn't mean you get to use it every day and get away with it. Regular opium use probably isn't harmful physically, but you'll still get dependent.
Also, whoever thinks cannabis doesn't cause dependence needs to move to the West Coast and become a habitual pot smoker. It's hard to believe that there are no withdrawal effects at all when you just can't eat, or get restful sleep without a few tokes. Just because you can ignore the signs of withdrawal, doesn't mean they're not there.
I'm not making any claims about the safety or efficacy of kratom, nor saying you can't take it on a regular basis. I just want to be absolutely crystal clear that kratom is indeed an opioid drug, and it should be treated like one. It doesn't exert its effects through magic. It's an opioid. It is entirely possible to overdose and kill or injure yourself on too much kratom if the stars align just right and you're especially reckless. Anyone saying otherwise is a liar... No drug is 100% perfectly safe. Someone could even OD on ayahuasca if they put their mind to it.
Have there been many kratom fatalities? Obviously not or it'd be banned. Could there be in the future? You bet.
that is really nice to hear coming from someone with personal experiences with success...its been hard but the Kratom has helped me so much when ive wanted to use because i hurt and felt like tearing off my skin i took some kratom and it took the cravings away and def. helped with the pain...im not rushing my tapper am still using the kratom due to me still being in slight withdrawals and its hard working as a trainer in a very busy resteraunt feeling shitty..but i am starting my kratom taper seriousley today.off for a few days and am giving it a go.!!! i really hope others can use this stuff to help them!! its an awesome plant and will help addicts be able to go slow and steady with w/ds istead of using again to take the damn pain and awful anxiety away!! much to love to you all who are in the struggle and fighting and keep on keepin on!!!^ All true, Kratom is very easy to taper from...just dont rush your taper...Ive used it in this way before to great success. It is however addictive but to lesser degree than traditional opates
I used Kratom to withdraw from opiates. I bought an extract from a local headshop, I wasn't disappointed by the quality of it. So I used it for 6 days, during which I had no opiates. Upon cessation of Kratom I had some horrid withdrawals. Extreme anxiety, restlessness and joint pain were the biggest complaints. I ended up going back to opiates. I would rather withdraw from a moderate opiate habit than a moderate Kratom habit.
Every other effective opiate known to man comes from the papaver correct?