The Feminist Movement And Its Effect On Modern Men

[LuGoJ]

more they way capitalism has used feminism to make women more of a slave than before and endorsing this through the media

Gotcha, so it's not really classical feminism as a movement you have a problem with. More what it's become. I agree to some extent.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

First, I'm a Feminist. I believe in mutual respect, equal rights, equal opportunities, equal pay, and equal responsibilities. Unfortunately, my kind of feminism is kind of rare in the Western world and has been replaced by man-hating feminism.

I think Andrea Dworkin's misandrist (Feminazi for those who don't know the word misandrist) strain of feminism has hijacked and poisoned feminism. As you said, Dworkin blames men for all of the world's problems. She was also batshit crazy and delusional, claiming all sex is rape, famously claiming to have been raped at a hotel in 1999 in a controversial magazine article (it's widely believed to be a false-rape claim and has hurt real rape victims), and supporting incest. She basically blamed others for her own problems and didn't make any effort to make things better. I suspect that it was convenient for her to create a form of feminism that compensates for her personal failings. She puts down anyone (men) who wanted to succeed and anyone (attractive women) who cared about their looks. My own female relatives were all blind followers of Dworkin's strain of feminism. You can imagine the effect that species of feminism had on my childhood.

Overall, forms of feminism that are based on man hating seem to dominate in the US, and it has hurt men. Even in the media, men seem to be portrayed as goofy, bumbling, second rate human beings; the divroce rate in teh US is 60%; 70% of those divorces are started by women; and divorce settlements favor women overwhelming.

It has also given American Women a bad reputation overseas in non-English speaking countries (except South America). As a single man who lived in the US and formerly dated American women, I saw first hand the effects of this kind of feminism on daily male-female interactions - it created a hostile atmosphere. All men are assumed to be sexual predators. In the words of one female when referring to me, " creepers who are trying to get their pervon," whatever that's supposed to mean.

Anohter effect is that most men of my generation don't check out, leer, whistle, or stare at women. A loud active minority still do those things and worse which makes us all look bad.... I've never even flirted or tried to "pick up" an American Woman, but I can feel hostility, see their muscles and face tense up, and sometimes overhear their nasty comments when I'm in the same room with them.

How do you feel about new radfem people like Cathy Brennan? My female relatives find her to be rather silly.

http://bugbrennan.com/

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cathy_Brennan

 

[herbavore]

I am a feminist and raised two sons; both, as adult men, embraced feminism. It never had anything to do with blame or hatred of any gender. It's about understanding a system, questioning the worth and the workings of a system. I raised them to question everything--including me-- and am proud to say that my living son continues to do so in very inspiring ways, as I know his brother would have continued to do had he lived. It can be hard not to take things personally but we are always better off when we can manage it.

 

[socko]

ed.stone: thanks, ironically, learning about feminism has helped me shake it off.

How do you feel about new radfem people like Cathy Brennan? My female relatives find her to be rather silly.

http://bugbrennan.com/

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cathy_Brennan

She's a bully. Brennan is a viscious and hateful woman and has a special grudge against trans-women and gay men. I get the idea she hates all men, but picks on gays and trans-gender women because she wants easy targets. Gender and gender identify aren't always straightforward binary definitions, but she seems to refuse to acknowledge that. Out of spite. And outing gay kids in highschool the way she does is evil. That's when they are most vulnerable so she picks on them to do the most damage she can.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

ed.stone: thanks, ironically, learning about feminism has helped me shake it off.



She's a bully. Brennan is a viscious and hateful woman and has a special grudge against trans-women and gay men. I get the idea she hates all men, but picks on gays and trans-gender women because she wants easy targets. Gender and gender identify aren't always straightforward binary definitions, but she seems to refuse to acknowledge that. Out of spite. And outing gay kids in highschool the way she does is evil. That's when they are most vulnerable so she picks on them to do the most damage she can.

How else does she dislike gay and bisexual men, and bi, gay, and trans youth? How does she out HS kids who are gay, bisexual, lesbian, or trans but closeted or not out? I don't really pay attention to her besides what I've seen on Tumblr when browsing people's pages.

 

[socko]

How else does she dislike gay and bisexual men, and bi, gay, and trans youth? How does she out HS kids who are gay, bisexual, lesbian, or trans but closeted or not out? I don't really pay attention to her besides what I've seen on Tumblr when browsing people's pages.

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, an organisation that fingers hate groups, her "group," Gender Identity Watch, would be classified as a hate group if it actually had any members other than herself and her partner.
She sent this to a transgender journalist.

There's a lot about her on the internet, for example, http://theothermccain.com/2014/01/0...roll-under-the-bridge-on-the-crazyville-road/
And just read her website to see the hate commng directly from her.

 

[kytnism]

Do you respect the fact that other women want the right to vote though, and do you believe they deserve to vote as a matter of equality? Or no, simply because you personally could do without it?

in fear of this thread derailing and evolving into a political debate, please see my previous answer in my first reply to you. addendum, i also didnt realize you were asking for a global perspective, rather than my personal viewpoint/opinion?

As for rules. Do you feel the rules and roles should be decided and defined by a body that is made up of men and women equally?

to crosshatch a reply you had written to another member of the forum in relation to defining and abiding by the social rules of marriage, here is what you said:

So tell her you are unhappy and want to sleep with other people. Also tell her that you are 100% OK with her sleeping with other men.

You don't want to be a hypocritical piece of shit, now do you?

At the end of the day, you were the one who agreed to your relationship's rules once it was formed. If you need those rules amended for yourself, you need to make your wife aware of the amendment so that she may also make any necessary amendments.

do you believe the initial laws/traditions of marriage were created by an equal body of both men and women? and how has feminism and the suffrage movement consequently had effect on modern day marriage positively? if having choices, means the right to divorce, do you regard feminism as the source for social discourse as a result of divorce?

seems your views of feminism are very localized. Do you support feminism in countries where women aren't lucky enough to have the rights you have? For instance, the right to drive, the right to go out alone in public etc. Do you support feminism in such situation, since it seems the majority of men in said countries don't care about equality?

of course my views are localized, i dont recall speaking on behalf of women worldwide; merely stating my personal belief system in regard to the issue. as for foreign countries and some of the issues you have mentioned above, im not entirely sure how feminism (if possibly embraced) would alter such things as sharia law, religious or tribal ceremonies/rites of passage and or alternate political agendas to those of western society? although it is a very interesting topic to contemplate.

...kytnism...

 

[LuGoJ]

in fear of this thread derailing and evolving into a political debate, please see my previous answer in my first reply to you. addendum, i also didnt realize you were asking for a global perspective, rather than my personal viewpoint/opinion?



to crosshatch a reply you had written to another member of the forum in relation to defining and abiding by the social rules of marriage, here is what you said:


do you believe the initial laws/traditions of marriage were created by an equal body of both men and women? and how has feminism and the suffrage movement consequently had effect on modern day marriage positively? if having choices, means the right to divorce, do you regard feminism as the source for social discourse as a result of divorce?



of course my views are localized, i dont recall speaking on behalf of women worldwide; merely stating my personal belief system in regard to the issue. as for foreign countries and some of the issues you have mentioned above, im not entirely sure how feminism (if possibly embraced) would alter such things as sharia law, religious or tribal ceremonies/rites of passage and or alternate political agendas to those of western society? although it is a very interesting topic to contemplate.

...kytnism...

Oh i'm not trying to debate, I just want to make sure I understood where you were coming from.

When i speak about the rules of marriage, I speak of the contract that the individuals agreed to when their relationship is formed. Every relationship has rules that are set by the participants, both participants are expected to follow the rules they created. If they cannot follow the rules they both created, new rules they can follow must be discussed and formed. I don't really subscribe to any specific "tradition" of marriage but I do always subscribe to honesty in all relationships, especially when said information might be important enough to make the other person reevaluate the relationship and leave. I believe that people always have the right to be informed of things that may make them want to change the course of their life. Now if both parties agreed upon dishonesty, then so be it, but I highly doubt that's the case in the 99.99999% of relationships. If you are talking about the legal rules of marriage, I don't believe marriage should be intertwined with the government at all really, beyond simple record keeping etc.

As for feminism's effect on marriage, I have no clue as I haven't done any in depth research. My only is experiencing my own marriage, marriages in my family and being friends with other married couples. What I will say is that I believe that many women(and men) often feel trapped in marriages they are unhappy in. Up until recently there was a much bigger stigma associated with divorce, especially when women had much more difficulty finding work and supporting themselves on their own. I believe just as many people wanted to get divorced 100 years ago, they just simply weren't able to. I'm a child of divorce myself actually so this hits close to home for me.

I can't say with certainty that feminism would help in countries that oppress women but I do believe that people living under oppression sometimes need empowerment movements specific to them. Whether that's feminism or they call it something else? Who knows. I feel they need as much global support as possible though. Of course our views will skew local but we must always strive to think how our beliefs and actions impact the globe as a whole. At least that's what I try to do, unsuccessfully sometimes

Really though, at the end of the day, I believe in the dictionary definition of feminism. I don't think radical feminism has helped anything. I also agree with you that humanism should be the ultimate goal.

 

[malakaix]

while i know this is probably a troll post, im going to respond.

ive always been a hater of the apparent “feminist” movement and its scars left on society for both sexes. since the apparent movement, women try and juggle multiple roles that are too difficult to handle and make them miserable and men have become more effeminate and less willing to provide for their families in their role. as a result, divorce is imminent, families are commonly broken, and men and women no longer know where they stand socially and have forgotten how to connect with one another.

rules and guidelines are set for a reason. women are supposed to behave as so, as are men in being gentlemen. the mish mash that occurred between history; has deemed us a role less society, a “free” society. this "society" has never been more lost in their life journey than ever before and people as a result (male or female) have never felt so alone…

feminism? what a joke. whatever happened to humankind? plural, not singular, non political/non sexual…

...kytnism...

Agree whole-heartedly with this post. +1.