The fear of going insane

[Hilopsilo]

While 95% of my trips go well and I consider myself pretty well experienced with psychedelics, but in the past I've had some pretty bad trips. Usually a combination of too high intensity and a poor set/setting.

While tripping has been some of the absolute most beautiful and enjoyable experiences of my life, the very bad trips have been maybe the most terrifying and real experiences of my life. Not in the sense of actual danger, but the feeling of fear can be so immense that it becomes stronger than even the scariest moments in real life (actual scary/bad situations with real danger or reason to be scared).

Since those bad trips (the bulk of which occured many years ago when I first began experiements) I've got this strange habit of reading Bad Trips and Trip Disasters / Train Wrecks on Erowid. I usually like to smoke weed while I do, and this combined with actually experiencing it, I can REALLY feel the way the person does and and imagine how that bad trip is, but not actually have to experience something that is that unpleasant. It sort of gives me a thrill, since those bad trips were my most intense and in-depth trips (bad trips seems to amplify the effects many fold of whatever drug, my best trip have been intense but seem less intense than the bad ones retrospectively). I'll do it for hours on end, its almost like reading spooky stories.

It also helps me to understand why I might have had a bad trip, what led to it, what recall what it was like (I find bad trips to be far less lucid than good trips, I remember far less from them due to a racing mind).

What I've realized is most of my bad trips have resulted from this feeling that is sort of, a fear of going insane. They start when it gets too intense in the wrong setting and I start to feel as if I'm losing control, then losing my actual mind, going clinically insane, I no longer have a grasp of reality and it might stay this way for a long time (if not convinced of it being forever). I become fully convinced of all this, and it feels like 100% sheer terror/fear juice being injected into you.

Reading a lot of these trip reports, this seems to be a pretty common theme; fear of going insane. Like the car is going too fast and you lose control of the vehicle and it gets far REALER than you imagined it would/could be. Recently when I figured out about blasting off the nitrous on LSD, one of my experiences was terrifying, and the theme was that everyone warned me about this and doing it would make you go insane, and thats what just happened and now i'm stuck forever.

All of this sort of hinges on the feeling of constructivism during these experiences, that everything I perceive and have ever perceived has been conjured up by whatever existence I manifest; sort of like its just been a dream up until now (its been a lie, this is how it really is)

Thoughts? Similar experiences? I know bad trips are scar and nobody wants to experience one, but I almost find it fascinating lol. I used to be scared that reading about bad trips would give me them, but honestly its helped me avoid the fuck out of whatever caused them to have a bad trip (careless dosage, bad settings, bad people, etc.)

 

[PsychaStevic]

Bad trips are just as introspective as any good ones. Food for thought

 

[dirzted]

While tripping has been some of the absolute most beautiful and enjoyable experiences of my life, the very bad trips have been maybe the most terrifying and real experiences of my life. Not in the sense of actual danger, but the feeling of fear can be so immense that it becomes stronger than even the scariest moments in real life (actual scary/bad situations with real danger or reason to be scared).

It sort of gives me a thrill, since those bad trips were my most intense and in-depth trips (bad trips seems to amplify the effects many fold of whatever drug, my best trip have been intense but seem less intense than the bad ones retrospectively). I'll do it for hours on end, its almost like reading spooky stories.

I know exactly what you mean, bad trips can literally produce fear itself; I remember the worst trip of my life (an eighth of mushrooms in a room by yourself, what could go wrong?) completely enveloping me in unspecified terror... I kept repeating over and over that I was not going to die, which I had prepared in case I got anxious to say to myself, but the sheer panic that came over me made death seem a merciful relief! In this way, I didn't even know what I was feeling exactly or why i was feeling that way, I just WAS the epitome of negativity.

And again I completely agree, bad trips seem to amplify themselves so much more than good trips do. Anxiety exponentially increases the direction of your current mind state, in which case a state of psychedelia is propelled much farther away from the anchor of sanity than it otherwise would be had you merely been feeling contentment.

 

[KneelB4Doom]

I was deep into a trip once and I started convincing myself I was insane.. lol like in my day to day sober life. It was an odd experience to say the least on the comedown I had a good laugh with myself about it.. hmm

 

[pupnik]

feeling the insane thing and labeling it a bad trip seems to be one thing, i.e if it's bad, it's insane.
like the quality of badness is an unhealthy quality, a non-normative quality,
the crux of which is being stuck in something that is undesired which we feel powerless to change. something that is repeating, something that is unending.
it can be as subtle as persistent visual distortions at the side of your vision, or a minor body sensation that overtakes everything else and wont let go, all the way to conflict with circumstances or being(s) (whom you may have imagined into existence) that becomes serious and keeps on getting more serious.

We can be distracted about this by following the kind of conversation where insanity and non-normativity are argued as not really insane just different, but what is going on is very much problematic.
But -
If it weren't really uncomfortable we would not bring it up.
What is most uncomfortable usually is being unable to make it stop on top of the particular pain point of the specific mental artifact or sensory experience that is dogging us - from which we cannot escape. AND possibly also, on top of the knowledge that we have brought it on ourselves, by doing something or thinking something.

And yet, if the persistent sensation is fascinating, or pleasurable, we are eager to lap it up and declare what a good trip it was, and the term insane never gets bandied about. We are unconcerned about "normativity". it's a trip, and we are happy.

================

common to all psychedelic experiences is this aspect of persistence, or non-fading, trails, recycling, repetition etc.
mind manifesting experiences seems to come down to mental objects lasting longer and becoming more manifested.

setting is about the feed to the mind from without, and mind-set or set is about the feed to the mind from within: the character of good or bad is often assigned from set and setting, but all psychedelic trips will have the enrichment of mind manifestation, which if analyzed is persistence - weather it is trails, enriched colors, reverberant music, enthralling sensations, encompassing ideas - any of that can be good feeling or bad feeling, but all of it has the character of persisting, often to the point of being timeless - and this is the key

depending on dose and susceptibility, time distortion is going to happen as part of the psychedelic experience.

this in itself is neither insane nor not insane.
do your best with set and setting, and know that persistence is the time distortion and it will happen one way or another.

Let it be charming.

 

[Cheshire_Kat]

Part of the psychedelic experience is the opportunity to temporarily shut off the "filters" of perception. These filters are necessary if we are to be "in control" of our experiences in everyday life. One of the most important thing one can do in an "intense" psychedelic experience is to accept the experience and to do that one has to stop trying to be "in control" of the experience. This lack of control can be perceived as insanity; I personally do not label it as anything but raw experience.

It's sometimes hard for anyone to remember this in a particularly intense experience, and we cannot rely on just dosage to predict the intensity or quality of the experience; despite the proper attention to set and setting. Sometimes despite all our inner and outer preparations we can be taken by surprise with regards to where the trip may take us. Having a knowledgeable guide who stays at baseline (does not dose) with us brings another layer of safety.

I used to be part of the Kool-Aide group that would operate at concert events in the late 60's and early 70's. We were there to help "trippers" who went to far and were having a bad trip. Nearly all came out of the bad trip and went back to the event fully enjoying it after spending some time with us. and accepting the fact that they had to go with the flow. This is IMHO the most important factor in safe psychedelic experiences after set and setting.

 

[jezpe]

Be careful what you wish for. I also used to read those erowid reports in horror. But after ive experienced bad trips and real psychosis and manic psychosis. Those bad trips dont scare me at all anymore and maybe thats why i havent had one in more than 5 years. I just say dont be afraid human brain have amazing ability to heal itself over time.
ps. Manic Psychosis was awesome i thought i was jesus and was preaching joy on the streets :DD

 

[Solipsis]

I can't really comment on going full 'Jesus' but worrying that you've gone insane while tripping is pretty common and a result of reflecting on your unhinged thought processes without the proper perspective which is: that it is temporary.

Beyond that the fear of losing your mind, if strong enough and spiralling, can be destructive like all fear... and a self-fulfilling prophecy since panicked trips can be really crazy and fucked up.

It's one of those things that is very hard to teach or learn, ironic and paradoxical. I'd say it is usually better to find a way to surrender, even to say: fuck it I don't care anymore. The latter is more labile but in my experience both are miles better and get you across in a major way, and can even trigger revelations.

I'd cut out the weed since this can make you pretty hazy and while it is particularly relaxing to some / in some cases, it is a bad sign that it is facilitating this panic. Anyway good luck with that, irrational fears are hard to deal with but the answer is probably not in obsessing over it morbidly like it is to keep reading train wrecks and then worrying about it happening to you too much. If you worry to much, don't read those.

It's just plain smart to wanna avoid it though of course. So just plan ahead very well, train wrecks tend to involve a factor of not planning ahead, taking chances and bad judgement. The rest seems like they are really unforeseen 'disasters' which you cannot avoid. This is another topic altogether and does not relate just to tripping but the fact that you cannot control everything or avoid all disasters ultimately. The best you can do is your best and take your chances with what you cannot control. If you cannot accept this I guess you cannot trip. If you cannot accept that about life though, you cannot really live either? I know that problem all too well. Learning to relax is an art.

 

[LandsUnknown]

In my opinion, anyone who is experienced with psychedelics has likely experienced the fear of going crazy or never coming down while tripping at some point. The key to avoiding a "bad trip" in this situation is that if you start getting the feeling of "going crazy" to just sit down somewhere, close your eyes, and simply let the mind go...... and when I have done this, I've had some truly profound and enlightening experiences. While this obviously easier said than done if you're experiencing an ego death experience of this variety, I have personally found this the best way to handle the whole "I'm going to be insane forever" type of trip...... and also taking long, deep breaths.

Dim lighting also helps to calm the mind a bit in my experience as well. And always have someplace you can retreat to by yourself in your own space (or with good friends depending on whether you prefer tripping alone or with others). Never trip where you're stuck being in a crowded or otherwise unsuitable setting. Try to avoid any type of setting that could create paranoia. Also, keep some water and snacks around..... and have whatever you need to remain comfortable while tripping.

And know that no matter how crazy a trip gets, you'll always come down even if you temporarily believe that you won't come down or have gone "insane". Also, the belief of having "gone insane" isn't an abnormal or unusual thing to experience while tripping. Not in the least. I've experienced the whole "going insane" thing while tripping quite a few times, and if anything I came out of the experience more sane than I was before. I've been through this sort of experience several times, and still haven't gotten stuck in any trips yet ....... despite having had that horrifying thought of having "gone insane" and fried my brain.

Luckily for me, as with your experiences, most of my trips aren't bad ones and don't involve the feeling of insanity, just profound feelings of enlightenment. Probably about the same ratio of good to bad ones. Probably around 90% good, 10% "bad" (though I've learned a great deal from some of them)....... and the "bad" ones have nearly always included the belief of having gone insane or having "fried my brain" in some form. Another thing I find to be helpful is writing down the time that you dosed and keeping a clock in your room to look at. That way if you do begin to get paranoid in this sort of way, you'll be able to watch time pass and be reminded of the fact that the trip is always temporary whether it is a good one or you're unfortunate enough to be experiencing a bad one.

 

[Zosh7273]

I've already gone insane a number of times from taying up. it is hell.

 

[LandsUnknown]

I've already gone insane a number of times from taying up. it is hell.

Sleep deprivation in other words? I've never been up long enough to really go "crazy" per say, but I have been awake long enough for things to begin to start getting weird. However, several of my friends have. I've heard horrible things about it, like basically having a nightmare while awake from what I have heard. The longest I have been up is around 36 hours. No hallucinations, just very tired but also combined with this odd manic feeling. And do recall being a bit paranoid, but I've never hallucinated from sleep deprivation or felt that I had really lost it....... yet at 36 hours I could definitely see that the potential is there. Had I stayed up another 12 hours or so, I probably would have been starting to get some pretty serious effects. Even at 36 hours, I did get some slight audio stuff, like just weird whispering especially with white noise. If I remember correctly, I also believe that I heard someone calling my name several times when there was nobody around. Wasn't that bad or anything since I didn't continue to stay awake for more than a few hours after things began to get a bit weird, but if I stayed up for longer, the audio stuff probably would have gotten much, much worse I'm sure..... and I probably would have begun seeing stuff as well. I was getting some weird imagery out of the corner of my eyes, but it was really, really subtle. Also, weed was rather strange when I got high around the 30 hour mark or so. Kind of hallucinogenic in a way, not like full on visuals but some colors, weird experiences, and fairly intense CEVs that were definitely beyond normal weed stuff and just quite strange. Also started weirdly forgetting about things and doubting things that had happened the day prior which was quite bizarre.

My friend who stayed up for like 50 hours said that his pupils got dilated like he was on psychedelics around the 48 hour mark, and he started tripping absolute balls while sober. When he finally got into his room, he actually saw this creepy hallucination of a guy standing in his bedroom that wasn't there After he saw this hallucination, he said he just passed out in bed and had dreams that were far more vivid than anything he experienced otherwise. The whole experience sounded awful though, I have to say. Another friend of mine wanted to experience sleep deprivation hallucinations. She stayed up for like the same length of time as my other friend and said that she began to feel strange and got some hallucinations, including some visual stuff but it didn't sound quite as horrible as what my other friend experienced. For her, she said that she was extremely tired and not restless at all....... which oddly I didn't really experience all that much of a tired feeling in the conventional sense of the term and as I was awake, I started having this odd sense of manic restlessness combined with difficulty thinking fully clearly and just a generally crappy feeling. My friend had a similar experience..... until he saw the guy standing in his room that wasn't there. At that point, he just freaked the fuck out (as I'm sure I would have as well) and just laid down and passed the fuck out to avoid seeing any more fucked up things.

 

[pofacedhoe]

its when you start getting delusions but are convinced they are real and that you are not insane thats more worrying

saying "oh i'm crazy" is less bad than behaving crazy and saying "i'm fine- everyone else is just out to get me"

 

[pupnik]

just slow down and avoid reacting to all phenomena during the peak.

 

[Vediog]

One time I lost my mind after taking way too much 4-ho-mipt by accident. It was mainly uncomfortable feelings from the dissolution of all mental barriers between memory, imagination, and emotion rather than fear, though. I turned on "The Inexplicable Universe" with Neil DeGrasse Tyson and let him tell me how stuff works. I came out the other side feeling rather enlightened.

 

[Hilopsilo]

I can't really comment on going full 'Jesus' but worrying that you've gone insane while tripping is pretty common and a result of reflecting on your unhinged thought processes without the proper perspective which is: that it is temporary.

Beyond that the fear of losing your mind, if strong enough and spiralling, can be destructive like all fear... and a self-fulfilling prophecy since panicked trips can be really crazy and fucked up.

It's one of those things that is very hard to teach or learn, ironic and paradoxical. I'd say it is usually better to find a way to surrender, even to say: fuck it I don't care anymore. The latter is more labile but in my experience both are miles better and get you across in a major way, and can even trigger revelations.

I'd cut out the weed since this can make you pretty hazy and while it is particularly relaxing to some / in some cases, it is a bad sign that it is facilitating this panic. Anyway good luck with that, irrational fears are hard to deal with but the answer is probably not in obsessing over it morbidly like it is to keep reading train wrecks and then worrying about it happening to you too much. If you worry to much, don't read those.

It's just plain smart to wanna avoid it though of course. So just plan ahead very well, train wrecks tend to involve a factor of not planning ahead, taking chances and bad judgement. The rest seems like they are really unforeseen 'disasters' which you cannot avoid. This is another topic altogether and does not relate just to tripping but the fact that you cannot control everything or avoid all disasters ultimately. The best you can do is your best and take your chances with what you cannot control. If you cannot accept this I guess you cannot trip. If you cannot accept that about life though, you cannot really live either? I know that problem all too well. Learning to relax is an art.

I meant I like smoking weed and reading the trip reports! Not while I'm tripping. I am very wary of weed during my trips, makes me much less lucid and able to function.

 

[Xorkoth]

I used to fear going insane, or temporarily believe I was insane (ie, I broke my brain, I can't possibly return to normal from this, etc), on almost every trip at some point. These days it still happens occasionally. It's totally normal; the radical change in perception causes you to no longer comprehend "normality", which can cause fear. Most of the time these days the change brought on by psychedelics feels quite natural, because I've tripped so much. My trips have a lot less fear. But don't worry, you're fine. As someone mentioned above, you're only really crazy when you don't think you're crazy but are reacting to things that are false as if they are true, and it isn't just temporary.

Regarding weed and psychedelics, weed greatly potentiates the emotional intensity and confusion of psychedelics. Even now, I like to smoke like 1 hit of weed when the trip just isn't taking off, and it will really get it going. When I'm tripping hard, weed is the last thing I want because it can easily push it over the edge. Trips with weed where it gets out of hand are the ones that are the most confusing and chaotic.

 

[swilow]

A panic attack when sober is something incredibly tripped out anyway. Many people will feel dissociated and depersonalised; perhaps the bodies way of trying to protect the mind from trauma, like a possum playing dead or a rabbit in the headlights; but our consciousness continues and we totally feel this depersonalisation and it becomes a threat in and of itself. Plus, there are the physical symptoms of adrenaline, nausea, racing heart, increased blood pressure, clamminess/sweating, tingling extremities, hyperventilation . . . And the fearful thoughts of impending doom or fear of insanity, which feed into the physical stuff and cause all manner of physical distress. Combine that with the real time weirdness of a psychedelic and you have a right mess.

That said, it's useful to know what is causing these physical and psychological symptoms and that there are ways to reduce them. For example, a lot of the fear is induced by a feedback cycle of hyperventilation and the bodies response to shifting CO2/oxygen levels. I've learned that you can breathe your way out of panic. You slow the breath, breathe out for slightly longer than you breathe in, keep doing this for as long as needed. This helps the physical symptoms as well as giving the mind something simple to focus on. Now, this is easier said than done when the world seems to be dissolving into fractal madness, but it really does work at reducing some of the sheer terror. In truth, when you breathe your way through panic and you start to feel it reducing, a sense of real well-being and euphoria can envelope you, and really turn things around.

Stuff like weed causes increased heartrate which can be interpreted negatively during a trip. Some people find the physical effects of nitrous to simulate panic to some extent, and this can be enough to set one off. I always urge caution with regard to combining drugs normally considered mild with a psychedelic because the psychedelic will amplify and distort the effects of them. I personally love weed and nitrous when tripping, but I still urge caution!

 

[Solipsis]

I also used to fear going insane, I can only conclude from that subsiding that I have at some point gone insane..

No but seriously, like Xorkoth suggests it is likely a very extreme form of cognitive dissonance. I think based on my experiences especially with lysergamides like ETH-LAD that this can easily be alternated with a high degree of "cognitive resonance" which I guess involves a sort of mindmeld with feelings of unity and transcendence plus associated experiences. Haven't actually gotten round to report on this yet fully but on one ETH-LAD trip which sparked a theme for subsequent ones I envisioned certain metaphysical dichotomies / dualities like personal strengths and shortcomings and those of the world, but they could also unify and this would abstract into feeling like I became one with the world but in an unstable way:

After pure unity I 'dropped' to having a vision of having become some sort of spiritual hero (not that I think I am like that, I naturally thought that this level of 'revelation' would imply it), the world then was a sort of perfect ball in a perfect cube and consciousness was a matter of perspective (I believe that in a way), allowing me to harmonize with this image and express a sort of dance of its beauty. Not much later though, I struggled to balance the forces of the world and realizing my shortsightedness or mistake in reasoning these forces, I got a vision of having become some kind of horribly damaged mental patient. Each perspective produced a stereotype and also a reaction just like normal thought bounces from one to another. Obviously it is extreme to switch from seeing yourself as godly figures to hopelessly handicapped or some historic villain and I am more familiar with that happening on mushrooms.

This has happened again in very similar ways since then (also on AL-LAD in France following such patterns).

OK i know this thread was meant to be more about anxiety from weed reading train wreck reports but honestly isn't it a little obvious that scary shit which isn't unreal like a horror movie will make you super anxious with weed? Seems interesting to further explore fears of going insane before or during trips since those are par for the course with tripping. Nice to exchange experiences and maybe inform beginners...

I agree that weed can make things more confusing, not necessarily more chaotic always (at least that isn't the main issue IMO) but when it makes you a bit 'slow' or impaired that makes it so much harder to snap out of a feeling or thought. Better to keep your clarity so that you can keep flowing even when that is a bit crazed.

 

[Trip Falling Up]

In the famous words of Rick (from rnm):
"Don't think about it"

Seriously though. When it comes down to LSD experiences, I often notice a difference when it comes down to LSD use, behavior and individual experience. I liken it to the first time you picked up a joint and smoked that shit. What most likely happened, was an initial panic and fear, but an irking curiosity that drove you to pick up a joint again and smoke it. Again and again. Depending on how familiar you become with pot, the fear, anxiety and paranoia involved in pot usage dramatically decreases the more one uses it. And that isn't just because of a dampening effect from having a tolerance.

Now I know pot isn't LSD, BUT they are both hallucinogens with mind altering qualities that can bend your consciousness and eliminate your filters of reality. I've had pot brownie experiences far worse than any LSD induced state. What I'm trying to say is we're all psychonauts and exploring head spaces is what we crave. Alternate states of consciousness that can expand our knowledge of our selves, the physical and the metaphysical. They're fascinating, terrifying, beautiful and disturbing all at the same time. LSD is no different.

At first it's a scary substance. My very first trip had me convinced I would be tripping forever. Obviously I didn't, and after going through an acid binge some time after, I came to a point where I felt more myself while peaking on acid than I would while sober. Then the revelations and conclusions came pouring in. I kept notes during all my experiences and cataloged these epiphanies. Through a series of trips I managed to achieve the manic psychosis described above but in a more controlled mind-state, which I liken to essentially enlightenment. It only lasted a couple weeks but damn was it life changing.

During my binge however I learned a lot about acid use in an inexperienced tripper. From my observations, most "bad" trips happen when a tripper begins to do one of two things (not including environmental factors or causes):

1. Contemplate the past in a serious and analytical fashion, especially something that happened previously during the same trip.
2. Obsessing over a body sensation, thought, or external stimuli to the point of it dominating the entire trip.

She's ruthless and if you abuse her or don't respect the experience, she takes you into the helix. That's where the loss of control happens, the racing thoughts, chaos and confusion, tumbling senses, feelings of being stuck, looping, temporary amnesia, impending sense of doom/death, and all the other negative cognitive traits associated with a bad trip. Something I wrote about LSD during one of my LSD trips:
"Doing acid is like being a kid on a carousel ride for the first time, every time. It's a very fun experience but if you psych yourself out you won't be able to stop it and you'll just have a horrible time".

It forces you to be a molecule of H2O in the large river we call eternity. Don't fight the stream, just enjoy the flow. In the words of FDR, the only thing you have to fear is fear itself.

 

[Xorkoth]

She's ruthless and if you abuse her or don't respect the experience, she takes you into the helix. That's where the loss of control happens, the racing thoughts, chaos and confusion, tumbling senses, feelings of being stuck, looping, temporary amnesia, impending sense of doom/death, and all the other negative cognitive traits associated with a bad trip. Something I wrote about LSD during one of my LSD trips:
"Doing acid is like being a kid on a carousel ride for the first time, every time. It's a very fun experience but if you psych yourself out you won't be able to stop it and you'll just have a horrible time".

The thing about "the helix" (pretty nice name for it, I call it the loop) is that it's the desired road to take sometimes. Every single time I've experienced profound ego loss, it's been after riding the loop to its conclusion. It's hard to do though, it's where you need to let go and accept annihilation. More often than not I've been unable to do that, in fact most of the time it's happened I've been unable to let go fully, but even so it's led to some of my most profound moments in life.

Though terrifying, I have never considered this experience a "bad trip". It's just the process by which ego death can happen.