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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

The EADD Nicotine Vaping & E-Cigs Thread

My post was deleted so... Charlie's Chalk Dust is very very good. Loads of flavours and all tasty. But, make your own for seriously cheap juice, like 2-3 quid a 30ml bottle cheap. Doesn't take a lot of research to find out how and you'll be making your favourite flavours whenever you want to.
 
Came across these yesterday, I took a sample but not knowing how to do it & how much to spray I did 6 quick sprays & my mouth got a lot of actual liquid inside let alone a light mist. 1 spray is equal to 1mg of pure nicotine so you can figure what it did to me but I learn fast.

Well yeah apart from that mistake I swear by these things, oh before I forget F.U.B.A.R. I can see you breaking the thing open & using the liquid like mouthwash =D

61hT3F1pC%2BL._SL1000_.jpg
 
I use them (actually I've gone through, and my old man has,through so many batteries (all but the very very high-end kinds seem to have an extremely high attrition rate. I've just started viewing them as a source of free lithium metal with a high surface area (its essentially a rolled up bi-phasic electrode, with part of it Li metal and part IIRC MnO2, both backed onto a roll, after one part ends, the region of the other material begins without any separation, although its easy enough to tell which is which. And although I have a decent quantity of lab grade Li metal [plus a 100g brick of sodium] there is one rather specialized reaction I much prefer to use lithium mined from batteries for over the lab grade stuff, because it is really, really thin foil and as such as a high surface area, which makes it ideal for the hybrid liquid-gas phase reaction (no NOT the infamous 'shake and bake' meth cook, not that I couldn't perform a birch reaction if I wanted to, indeed I have, for other reasons, and have successfully formed the solvated electron solution with ammonia, although the first few times, simply as an experiment, it being formed and then quenched with alcohol rather than actually used to reduce any sort of substrate. I might be more interested if say, somebody just randomly posted the corresponding norephedrines/norpseudoephedrines) for various more exotic substituted amphetamines through my letterbox, but there are a LOT of ways of skinning an amphetamine-shaped cat), but for one very specific use, that thin foil does come in useful,and e-fag batteries seem to die at a rate enough to provide more than I need for that specific purpose)

I use homemade juice, as far as the diluent goes, its best by FAR to AVOID the use of glycerin/VG altogether, and just to use propylene glycol. Glycerine is prone to dehydration to the enal, prop-2-ene-al, the simplest possible member of the unsaturated aldehydes. Aldehydes generally aren't really things that one wants to be inhaling, enals even less so. Acrolein is truly evil fucking stuff. I won't forget, ever, the first time I made some as a kid, via dehydration of glycerin, although in that case using chemical means to do it, namely heating it with anhydrous sodium bisulfate, distilling off the acrolein as it formed, the stench was AWFUL, and the caustic, choking, lachrymatory (I.e teargas) fumes were even worse. Made the mistake of pouring a tiny bit that ended up not being needed down the sink (don't be too hard on me for that, at the time I was only just starting out in chemistry and was not yet in double figures as far as age goes. And virulent isn't the word. I flushed it with water, and made the mistake of turning the tap (it was a dual function single tap, turn it one way you get cold water, the other you get hot water) with the result that what was left was vaporized and sent back up the pipes like a satanic belch straight from the blackest, foulest pit in all hell, and sending me reeling, clutching my face, coughing and choking and tearing up like crazy.

Acrolein is violently irritant, and most likely carcinogenic, mutagenic and a lot of other nasty -genic things, take your pick, it probably is. World health authority recommendation is a tolerable maximum daily intake of 7.5ug/kg, and in glycerine containing liquids, average yield per puff in 'normal usage' being 10ug. Which IMO is very easily going to equal the kind of use most E-cig users are going to use. This stuff is fucking nasty as hell. Its one of those things that I'll only work with in the lab if there are no alternatives, and if I do need acrolein for anything then I'll be doing whatever it is outside, in full protective gear, elbow-length doubled-up gloves, respirator, goggles, blast shield over my face, thick old leather trenchcoat over the top of an inner, tight fitting zip-up leather, and the gas mask cartridges changed for fresh ones immediately before starting.

There is a way around it, that circumvents entirely the acrolein problem. Use propylene glycol as the sole base liquid. I can't stand the off the shelf liquids, I find its impossible to use them with variable output E-fags because the result is inhaling a cloud of teargas. Same goes for, even more so, when the liquid is almost running out and only a small amount wicks up to the heating element then any glycerin gets pyrolyzed a lot easier when there is so little of it, making for an intensely acrid, unbreathable choking poison gas cloud.

Just use nicotine, flavoring and propylene glycol. Glycerin is a really bad idea in anything that is meant to be heated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrolein
 
And those nicorette mouth sprays are nasty. Have had them before and they burn like fury.

Had a really bad experience once the very first time, when I was prescribed a couple of them in an effort to stop smoking.
Only problem being, the nurse handing the things out told me it was a fucking nasal spray! They are bad enough sprayed in the mouth, you can just imagine my reaction in the next couple of seconds after spraying it twice up my nose as I was told it should be used.
 
I use them (actually I've gone through, and my old man has,through so many batteries (all but the very very high-end kinds seem to have an extremely high attrition rate. I've just started viewing them as a source of free lithium metal with a high surface area (its essentially a rolled up bi-phasic electrode, with part of it Li metal and part IIRC MnO2, both backed onto a roll, after one part ends, the region of the other material begins without any separation, although its easy enough to tell which is which. And although I have a decent quantity of lab grade Li metal [plus a 100g brick of sodium] there is one rather specialized reaction I much prefer to use lithium mined from batteries for over the lab grade stuff, because it is really, really thin foil and as such as a high surface area, which makes it ideal for the hybrid liquid-gas phase reaction (no NOT the infamous 'shake and bake' meth cook, not that I couldn't perform a birch reaction if I wanted to, indeed I have, for other reasons, and have successfully formed the solvated electron solution with ammonia, although the first few times, simply as an experiment, it being formed and then quenched with alcohol rather than actually used to reduce any sort of substrate. I might be more interested if say, somebody just randomly posted the corresponding norephedrines/norpseudoephedrines) for various more exotic substituted amphetamines through my letterbox, but there are a LOT of ways of skinning an amphetamine-shaped cat), but for one very specific use, that thin foil does come in useful,and e-fag batteries seem to die at a rate enough to provide more than I need for that specific purpose)

I use homemade juice, as far as the diluent goes, its best by FAR to AVOID the use of glycerin/VG altogether, and just to use propylene glycol. Glycerine is prone to dehydration to the enal, prop-2-ene-al, the simplest possible member of the unsaturated aldehydes. Aldehydes generally aren't really things that one wants to be inhaling, enals even less so. Acrolein is truly evil fucking stuff. I won't forget, ever, the first time I made some as a kid, via dehydration of glycerin, although in that case using chemical means to do it, namely heating it with anhydrous sodium bisulfate, distilling off the acrolein as it formed, the stench was AWFUL, and the caustic, choking, lachrymatory (I.e teargas) fumes were even worse. Made the mistake of pouring a tiny bit that ended up not being needed down the sink (don't be too hard on me for that, at the time I was only just starting out in chemistry and was not yet in double figures as far as age goes. And virulent isn't the word. I flushed it with water, and made the mistake of turning the tap (it was a dual function single tap, turn it one way you get cold water, the other you get hot water) with the result that what was left was vaporized and sent back up the pipes like a satanic belch straight from the blackest, foulest pit in all hell, and sending me reeling, clutching my face, coughing and choking and tearing up like crazy.

Acrolein is violently irritant, and most likely carcinogenic, mutagenic and a lot of other nasty -genic things, take your pick, it probably is. World health authority recommendation is a tolerable maximum daily intake of 7.5ug/kg, and in glycerine containing liquids, average yield per puff in 'normal usage' being 10ug. Which IMO is very easily going to equal the kind of use most E-cig users are going to use. This stuff is fucking nasty as hell. Its one of those things that I'll only work with in the lab if there are no alternatives, and if I do need acrolein for anything then I'll be doing whatever it is outside, in full protective gear, elbow-length doubled-up gloves, respirator, goggles, blast shield over my face, thick old leather trenchcoat over the top of an inner, tight fitting zip-up leather, and the gas mask cartridges changed for fresh ones immediately before starting.

There is a way around it, that circumvents entirely the acrolein problem. Use propylene glycol as the sole base liquid. I can't stand the off the shelf liquids, I find its impossible to use them with variable output E-fags because the result is inhaling a cloud of teargas. Same goes for, even more so, when the liquid is almost running out and only a small amount wicks up to the heating element then any glycerin gets pyrolyzed a lot easier when there is so little of it, making for an intensely acrid, unbreathable choking poison gas cloud.

Just use nicotine, flavoring and propylene glycol. Glycerin is a really bad idea in anything that is meant to be heated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrolein

That's a very interesting post LC, which seems to go against the grain of popular 'wisdom'. So PG is actually 'safer' than VG then? So why are all the high end expensive juices so VG heavy? Does VG produce those voluminous plumes of vapour - much sought after by hipsters who can't handle proper fags - better than PG?
 
Some people say it gives a better cloud. I haven't noticed any difference. PG is DEFINITELY healthier IMO than anything with glycerin in there. At least it won't produce acrolein. Don't know if you've ever actually been around the pure stuff, (acrolein that is) but if you have or if you ever do, you won't forget it in a hurry.

As for why the expensive ones are glycerin-heavy, beats me, unless it is about the cloud of exhaled vapor. IMO it shouldn't be in any of them.
 
Some people say it gives a better cloud. I haven't noticed any difference. PG is DEFINITELY healthier IMO than anything with glycerin in there. At least it won't produce acrolein. Don't know if you've ever actually been around the pure stuff, (acrolein that is) but if you have or if you ever do, you won't forget it in a hurry.

As for why the expensive ones are glycerin-heavy, beats me, unless it is about the cloud of exhaled vapor. IMO it shouldn't be in any of them.

Hmm, thanks for that. This may explain why I can't get on with vapes - they tend to cause a lot of discomfort in my eustachian tubes and the surrounding areas, which is why I usually end up sacking them. Do you know if pure PG juices are available, or is it a case of having to make your own?
 
If you want to experiment with lithium batteries, Poundland sell under the "88Vape" brand name, "disposable" e-cig batteries. These contain basically a rechargeable lithium cell, just without any protection circuitry -- the charging can be limited by a protection circuit in the machine that charges the cell, and it doesn't matter if the cell gets so deeply discharged that it won't take another charge because it's never going to get one.

With a proper smart charger (or just a standard bench power supply with current limiting, and a diminished personal survival instinct), they can be recharged like any other rechargeable lithium cell. And the toke button is just a simple push-to-make switch, with no timer or lock-out device. A nice bit of phun to be had, if you're into that sort of thing. bigclivedotcom explains more, in his gorgeous, mellifluous voice ..... *drool*

WARNING: Lithium cells can be dangerous. Improper charging can create a fire and explosion hazard. Experiment at your own risk.
 
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^ I've recently bought one of those 88vape pens and for the price it's not too bad at all. It doesn't leak (as long as the clearomiser is kept slightly above horizontal), it can be refilled from the top which makes things less messy and the heating element is integral to the clearomiser, which costs 99p to replace. The charger's a bit crap mind you - I'm never sure whether it's actually charging or not.

Previously I've experimented with the Pioneer starter pen from Vape Direct - https://www.vapedirect.com/vape-direct-pioneer-kit.html

These are fuckin wank! They arrive in a lovely presentation box which is better quality than the pen itself. The coil and clearomiser are separate parts which makes changing awkward, to refill you have to unscrew the clearomiser and turn it upside down to fill from the bottom and the seal between the plastic part of the clearomiser and the metal threaded piece is so poor that the slightest knock causes a leak from the seal. NOT recommended.
 
Try vaping pure PG & then come back to tell me what happened to you =D;)

Jesus Limpet_Chicken any vape fan knows damn well about PG/VG, I am not one to question your chemical wisdom but I can speak from experience of being a vaper since the only tanks were CE4 & CE5's the Kanger Protank was a mere glint in the China mans eye & PG sucks.

And those nicorette mouth sprays are nasty. Have had them before and they burn like fury.

Had a really bad experience once the very first time, when I was prescribed a couple of them in an effort to stop smoking.
Only problem being, the nurse handing the things out told me it was a fucking nasal spray! They are bad enough sprayed in the mouth, you can just imagine my reaction in the next couple of seconds after spraying it twice up my nose as I was told it should be used.

No burning for me & I sure have had nobody tell me to spray it up my nose also.

Have a nice day btw ;)
 
Pure PG, as in without nicotine added? never tried doing that, but all the juice I use is an exclusively PG base, just flavouring, avoiding those flavors likely to contain aldehydes (E.g the likes of cinnamon, which has reportedly even been pretty harsh on plastic tanks, not that I like cinnamon to begin with, although too bad, because I just bet a benzaldehyde-flavoured juice would taste great, I love the way it smells up the whole room opening a bottle if its something being done that doesn't need breathing gear. The smell makes me hungry, the way it smells like sweet, freshly cooked cherry bakewell tarts and marzipan=D)

But PG has never been unpleasant, not like liquids with any glycerin in them, before I switched to using PG, I was finding myself often having to throw out half a tank or so of juice because it had been slowly getting more and more contaminated with acrolein, stinking like acrid, burning rancid fat. No doubt whatsoever about it, nothing else it could have been, since not only are the ingredients to create it (I.e thermal dehydration-elimination of glycerin) all there, and I know it when I smell it, worse stinking luck for me. You don't forget something quite that vile in a hurry....theresa may could use the stuff for cunt flap deodorant.=D

I've had the sprays the way they were meant to be used and they still burn and sting. Only made the mistake of taking the smoking cessation nurse's advice the once. But it still has a burn to it oromucosally.

Hey Julie-Thanks for that tip regarding pound-store lithium batteries. Actually going for a quid a pop? how big are they? not those tiny fag-a-like things are they? (if you are wondering where I'm going with this, what I'm thinking is 'big enough to be worth bulk buying and stripping them down??'). They won't need to take any recharging with what I have in mind for them, or a tank for that matter. Just to be better value for money in terms of Li foil than regular off the shelf AA Li batteries once somebody dunks them under a tub full of heptane, isohexane or similar (n-hexane is actually rather unusually toxic for an unsubstituted saturated hydrocarbon, as it forms a diketone metabolite, 2,5-hexanedione, thats neurotoxic, crosslinking lysine residues in neurons and buggering up axonal transport, but the other isomers of hexane don't.) and its only to exclude the atmospheric oxygen, nitrogen and moisture (Li reacts nitrogen, unlike the other alkali metals, forming a very, very strongly basic nitride) and to provide something to stick the batteries in and fillet them under the surface to prevent a fire.

(admittedly it does sound a little strange, using whats basically petrol to cover something and stop it heating up and possibly either sparking, shorting and beginning to glow red hot, or hotter, and at worst, igniting, but it works.)

Nice one for that little tip julie, I might have to make a trip down to the nearest pound shop once my wounded foot heals up and I'm able to walk again, and scope the place out, see if I can get any good deals on them in bulk. And whilst I appreciate the warning julie, don't worry about it on my part at least, I've disemboweled more than my fair share of Li batteries, and batteries in general come to think of it.

There are just so many useful things to be had from them. Nickel gauzes, sources of cadmium if one gets lucky, and mercury if even luckier. Silver oxide which is rather useful stuff. Lithium metal as fine, thin metal foil with a high surface area that makes it usefully reactive, even thionyl chloride, as SOCl2/Li cells which are a real treasure-trove. And of course carbon electrodes, can never have enough of those, manganese dioxide, that can be leached out as soluble Mn salts, zinc scrap (have plenty Zn dust, but when I go in for recycling I figure I might as well have everything, down to the last scrap of resources, with bits of plastic and ferrous garbage being about the only things I don't take, although semipermeable plastic membranes are an exception, things like capacitor dielectrics)

But most everything ends up either extracted, distilled off, boiled in acid and crystallized, stripped for metals, metal oxides, electrodes. The only rubbish is the outer layer of batteries with steel cases, since they have next to no scrap value financially and I certainly don't need bits of mangled steel that are good for making sod all.

You've no need to worry about my blowing myself up anyhow julie. Already have plenty of lithium, but as bulk pieces of metal under argon. The thin, fine tape form from batteries has its specific uses though for which it is more suitable than solid pieces or chips.
 
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Judging by the size of the cell in the linked video, it's probably about 200 - 300mAh. Which is more than an hour of light from a 0.5W LED (= 140mA @ 3.6V).

@Limpet Chicken, I'm sure you have a pretty good idea of the precautions to take when handling densely-packed potential energy that is just desperate to turn itself into kinetic energy; but I'm thinking of future readers finding this thread in a search and getting ideas about trying things out for themselves.
 
Yeah, I figured. I myself don't have the slightest intent of even DIScharging pound store batteries. Nevermind charging them. Maybe once, just to make sure they are full before gutting them. But as for Li metal, I've a jar of about 25-30g under argon, packed in a jar in a plastic over-sheath (opened after some of the original weight was used a few times), the jar itself contains also some magnesium dust and anhydrous calcium chloride, along with an argon purge. Although the CaCl2 will be replaced next time its opened with CaO to avoid the hygroscopic issues of CaCl2. Its just that the foil form is useful in particular for a solvent-based Birch-Benkeser type reduction (no, not 'shake and bake' meth cooking, and its a non-pressurized system) of aromatics and of benzylic alcohols that avoids having to condense NH3 or handle it as a liquid cryogen, takes a little longer but the safety of the process, conducted under a pad of argon is improved.

And as for alkali metals, there's a 100g brick of sodium metal on my shelves too, stored in a double-layered package, an inner vacuum-evacuated and heatsealed thick plastic liner covered inside with oil, and that stored in a hermetically sealed inert gas filled heat-sealed thick plastic outer liner. And if that, or K, or making NaK via electrolysis (now that stuff has a temper like you wouldn't bloody believe. Potassium I've seen go up in water with a loud bang such as when I was in school and they were wasting theirs doing demos etc., but NaK alloy is just fiery, good luck GETTING it to water without it bursting violently into flames. Never chucked any in water for the hell of it, but it is tempting. Would have to make the potassium first, well, isolate it, rather than make it of course, given I'm not attempting to prepare it via nucleosynthesis -+ radioactive decay of a parent with an accelerator. Since I haven't any K in my stores atm, it wouldn't be difficult to do. At least once a wound thats stopping me from walking heals (no, its completely unconnected to my chemistry and biotech hobby) and I can get to making some 1,4-dioxane by ye olde sulfuric acid dehydration-elimination ether synthesis from ethylene glycol, and get myself some more big crucibles (my last large graphite crucible met a nasty fate and got dissolved by something) for magnesiothermic reduction of dry KOH [then grinding the resultant slag in a blender full of argon, and boiling it under dry 1,4-dioxane, that as one Nurdrage discovered, appears to have just the right physicochemical properties to allow the effective melting-out of good yields of alkali metals from these MgO-metal 'thermite' slags which then coalesces into large blobs of molten alkali metals. Often so large that they need to be remelted in the wide-necked erlenmeyer flask and divided with a knife while molten so that they can be removed from the flask and dunked under argon-sparged mineral oil)

So don't you worry about me Julie, I've FAR less friendly things than alkali metals in the lab, actually they are the tamer inhabitants of my shelves, cabinets and fridge. Try some ICl, or CrO2Cl2, or SOCl2 for size if you want nasty, or divalent mercury salts, or phosphorus halides, white phosphorus etc. then you can warn me if you must :p
 
Some ?1 stuff from the local vape shop earlier & I was sure it would be horrible, turns out it's really nice.
Oasis bubble gum, it's a 50/50 mix too which I wasn't happy about but it vapes really nice & why it was in the "sin bin of vape doom" is beyond me.
 
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