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The Big & Dandy Psychedelics & Schizophrenia Thread

Hard to say. He could end up taking it and being fine. t could go either one of three ways, one is that he takes it and it creates a massive psychotic episode (flailing around screaming at things that aren't even there, talking to imaginary people, thinking he can fly, just lying on the floor screaming in utter terror, speaking gibberish, etc.) He could also take it and the trip could be largely like you would expect from anyone else tripping. Also, he could find that it helped his illness in some way, who knows? The first and second options are fairly likely if he largely has gained control over his illness and functions well in society. The former is very likely if he is someone who is dependent on medications and has little to no control over his psychosis. Still though, it is very difficult to say. Someone could act schizophrenic during a bad trip who doesn't even have it. So, seriously who knows what will happen?
 
^^^^ I agree, the effects of psychedelics can be so drastic and unpredictable, for many reasons, with many different effects. It could go so many different directions. Either way if he chooses to trip, better be safe-minded
 
In the 50's and 60's research trials, they attempted to cure schizophrenics with LSD. What they found was, they were less responsive to the drug in general, but that under therapeutic circumstances with sufficient staff, it can really help. But, it can also be a really bad idea.

LSD is a seratonin-binding drug, and schizophrenia deals with the means of production and absorption of seratonin, so proceed with caution knowing that. Speaking from personal experience, you would NOT want to be hearing voices on acid, it would totally kill your vibe. If they have an episode during the trip they could potentially never fully come back, and acid tends to cause some anxiety on your first couple of trips.
 
2002Tii said:
Wouldn't LSD's "dirty" binding profile make this more risky than with other compounds?
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LSD binds to a lot of receptors, but certainly not significantly to all of them. And other psychedelics are really not *that* selective. If anything the dopaminergic agonism of LSD maybe is not ideal, but please do not think that other psychedelics are safe to take with schizophrenia.
None of them are, they trick our minds and show us suggestive and unreal things. Not saying that every psychedelic effect is a lie, but a lot of it is distortion and warping. Which is fine for people who are mentally stable, but extremely risky for people liable to psychosis like schizophrenics. They are much less able to separate fantasy from reality and are much more likely to believe projections of their own mind to be things that are really happening independent of them.

Tell me, how is doing psychedelics recreationally worth such serious risks of psychosis?
 
Penthos said:
I have absolutely NO data to back this theory up but I'd say that LSD has a higher affinity for messing with latent (and active) physiological conditions than other psychedelics.
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this!

lsd gave me a manic episode when combined with mdma. but ive tripped lots without any problems and i've definitely had real intense mania

mescaline, 2cb,2ci, no problems, lsd bad issues, al-lad no problems, mushrooms and tryptamines bit iffy

the harder it is to remember that it is a drug making you think crazy shit the more likely you go nuts. some trips have more "i remember i'm on something" than others e.g. mescaline
 
He shouldn't try it but it's still his choice.
People with disabilities are free to make their own mistakes, it would be wrong for us to deny them the right to try something that we ourselves get to enjoy.
 
That is so up in the air, it could help it could be weird...
Main question would be how bad and is your friend clinically diagnosed.
With proper set and setting your friend will be safe...but I could not tell you the parameters there.
 
Please everyone, be aware that we now discuss this topic centrally - see OP.
 
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130819185302.htm
"The researchers found no link between the use of psychedelic drugs and a range of mental health problems. [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Instead they found some significant associations between the use of psychedelic drugs and fewer mental health problems."[/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]No to suggest that taking psychedleic while suffering from schizophrenia is a good idea, I'd like to point out the findings of this study[/FONT]
 
Catcus said:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130819185302.htm
"The researchers found no link between the use of psychedelic drugs and a range of mental health problems. Instead they found some significant associations between the use of psychedelic drugs and fewer mental health problems."

No to suggest that taking psychedleic while suffering from schizophrenia is a good idea, I'd like to point out the findings of this study
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Sorry but that study means sod all. They didn't actually test the effects of psychedelic drugs on people diagnosed with psychosis or schizophrenia. Correlation doesn't equal causation.
Don't get me wrong... I LOVE to trip. Probably way more than anybody else on here. Tonight's 25mg 2C-E trip is gonna be my 5th in less than a week. Psychedelics are great but let's not romanticize things - they are not for everybody.
 
Wikipedia said:
The mirror test, sometimes called the mark test or the mirror self-recognition test (MSR), is a behavioural technique developed in 1970 by psychologist Gordon Gallup Jr. to determine whether a non-human animal possesses the ability of self-recognition.[1] Similar observations are used as an indicator of entrance to the mirror stage by human children in developmental psychology.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test
 
AA357 said:
Sorry but that study means sod all. They didn't actually test the effects of psychedelic drugs on people diagnosed with psychosis or schizophrenia. Correlation doesn't equal causation.
Don't get me wrong... I LOVE to trip. Probably way more than anybody else on here. Tonight's 25mg 2C-E trip is gonna be my 5th in less than a week. Psychedelics are great but let's not romanticize things - they are not for everybody.
Click to expand...

Agreed, you can't just lay out something suggestive like that and not mean anything by it. And it's very tricky to take anything away from the study. They can arrive at this if netto more people have beneficial effects from psychedelics on the long term on average, than negative effects or precipitated (previously more latent) mental illness... which I bet is true indeed, most people do seem to have positive / beneficial experiences - do you think they would be any popular if not?
But you cannot do arithmatics with the effects of psychedelics, let alone account for the many different mental illnesses and different effects psychedelics can have on them.
 
I would VERY much recommend against him taking it. I have heard that when schizophrenics in psychosis take psychedelics, their schizophrenia symptoms are completely absent during the trip. However, if the trip is a traumatic experience, which it often would be for someone with schizophrenic fears and delusions, it would likely worsen his condition and possibly trigger an episode. Also, acid would be the worst choice of psychedelic, because it tends to be the most dangerous for schizophrenics. Mushrooms and DMT are less damaging to schizophrenics, but they still do have the potential to cause harm for some people with the illness. Other people with schizophrenia do say that mushrooms and DMT have helped them with their illness, but it's still very much not recommended due to the risk of it worsening their illness.
 
I figured I would comment as I have been diagnosed with Schizoaffective depressive type in the past, although it has changed a few times too. I was hesitant to try anything beyond MDMA, as there seems to be a stigma already attached(this thread) to people with that label trying hallucinogens. All I'm going to say is since my first trip in February, my life has drastically improved. My voices have dissipated to zilch now. I am currently enrolled in community college and just passed both my summer classes. B- Introduction to Psychology and C in English 100. Although I'm not quite sure I really have sza, not so sure my psych doctor think that either. Problem I think being is I used crystal meth for a 2 month period in 2007, which I'm still very embarrassed about. I was 22 at the time and I started developing minor psychosis a couple months after stopping that horrid drug. I know that meth psychosis can be indistinguishable from sz/sza sometimes and can last for years. That's another story though too.

I think the most recent studies have suggested that LSD actually helps in the mid to long term mental health benefits. I think it can definitely help, possibly hinder a person too. I think it depends on how well someone is versed in the effects of the drugs, dosage of the drug, and severity of the mental illness. Schizoaffective is not schizophrenia, has a better prognosis etc. I think you have to really know yourself before you use a drug like LSD. I found that weed always has mixed well for some really fun trips. I've had a couple bad trips too, but I found that there was not one trip that did not help me learn something in some way. I believe this is the interconnections, what I mean is LSD connecting different parts of the brain that normally don't communicate in such a fluid way. Hs anyone seen the recent MRI of someone under the influence? Your brain is operating at a higher level of functioning.

I would say that it's up to that person, ultimately as long as they are not inherently a danger to themselves and others at the time. If they have a very mild condition, I would say start with a low dose maybe half a tab, increase after an hour if all is good. Half a tab, 1:00-1:15 the other half tab. Myself I'm not willing to go beyond two tabs, as I did about 230 ug and that was about the only bad trip I really had, but I also was not really in a good set or setting at that time. If I had a little weed, I think the trip would have improved.

All I'm going to say is it's not all or nothing with this issue. I think that if someone is very severely schizophrenic (talking about angels and demons, etc.), probably not the best of ideas, at least not until they are more stable. Sz/sza does improve with time for a number of people, John Nash being an example.

I think there is a doorway and potential with LSD/MDMA/Magic Mushrooms, is there anyone else who has improved from these substances?
 
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