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Lysergamides The Big & Dandy Non-LSD Ergoloids Blotter Thread

Although a part of Erowid that most of us are likely to have read, it may actually be in this thread. This discusses Sandoz quality/purity LSD being no different to an other batch of LSD out there from a variety of people each with different experiences with acid:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_article2.shtml

"I took approximately 100 µg and found it to be exactly what I'd expect from a solid single hit of good quality blotter. In terms of body load, the effects felt comparable to almost all batches of acid I've taken before. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It was a great experience, and for me helped answer the question of whether the acid I've had before was good material, and the answer is yes." - R

While they aren't here on BL to comment, regarding LSD purity there shouldn't really be too much f a difference, I wonder if its a mistake in the synth that could possibly lead to this, one that is simple to make but difficult to identify. However that would be starting to break the rules and going completely off-topic...What about these non-ergoloids? ;)
 
To be honest, after reading this, I'm now very much leaning towards impure LSD being a myth. Could be wrong.

I actually suspect my own strange and uncomfortable experience, just maybe, had something to do with taking Vitamin C tablets during the experience. Reasoning is, I've taken this acid several times before and never had anything like that, though I never dosed that highly either. And the nasty effects kicked in after I took the Vitamin C tablets. Each tablet contains 500mg Vitamin C derived from absorbic acid 250mg and 281.23mg of sodium ascorbate. Could this be possible? I would be hugely relieved.
 
I came across some WoW recently on the east coast, and i am becoming more and more convinced that is was LSx and not -25.

The effects were going strong until the 6 hour mark when all of the sudden there was a sharp and sudden drop-off. The effects for the next three hours were very mild, i had a lingering body load and minor visuals that only became apparent when i concentrated on them.

The come up was normal (around 30-40 minutes) and the visuals were spectacular, yet I remained relatively clear headed throughout the entire trip.
 
I wonder if when drying the blotters the LSD and impurities might migrate to other parts of the sheet, kind of like paper chromatography. This could explain why the same sheet gives different effects.
Ismene said:
But the alleged impurities would have to be far more powerful than LSD - remember you're noticing them above an immensely powerful drug like LSD in far lower doses.

It's kina like sitting in a lake that a 2 year old has urinated in and saying "I can tell there's urine in here..."
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It's not like piss in a pool, it's more like half the pool is piss.You could swim in both, though one might feel dirty. I think the average purity of street acid is like 60%. It's not that the impurities are stronger than LSD, it's that together they produce a synergic effect with LSD. The sober mind might not notice anything, but on acid it's very noticeable.The impurities still bind to the receptors in sub-active doses, this might alter LSD's binding profile. Or maybe just tripping makes one more perceptive to slight changes in the body and the environment. I think Hoffmann compared it to a key, changing the notches could change the locks it unlocks. You can still have good trips on dirty acid, it's just got an edge. It's not like full-blown ergotism, just annoying and seems to be a little more unpredicable. I just don't agree that it's all in everyone's head all the time with all acid, sometimes it is.
 
psood0nym said:
In my view, the stories on Erowid about chemists laying different blotter prints with the exact same LSD solution where their customers come back and emphatically exclaim "print X was so much more lucid man" or "print Y had such a body load" but they're in fact talking about the exact same synth laid on different prints without knowing it tells a huge chunk of this story with LSD (psychological/environmental factors play a big role).
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The active word here being "stories." Who's to say conclusively these claims of the "underground experiment" were not themselves total BS? A tall tale made up by some lousy chemist to distract people from saying his product was crap. "Oh, look, here's proof it's all the same." RIIIIIIIGHT, buddy, sure, and I'll buy that land you have for sale too.
 
DwayneHoover said:
The active word here being "stories." Who's to say conclusively these claims of the "underground experiment" were not themselves total BS?
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Can't see any reason why Owsley would lie about it tho. He said he simply put different coloured food dyes on the same sheet and people were coming back saying "The red is righteously mellow, the yellow is a bummer and the green is sooo clean".

I can easily believe it happening. You saw it happening when mushrooms were legal in the uk, people were selling the columbian cubensis as "heavy" while the mexican cubensis were "giggly". People believed it when it was utter bullshit.
 
SpecialK_ said:
Although a part of Erowid that most of us are likely to have read, it may actually be in this thread. This discusses Sandoz quality/purity LSD being no different to an other batch of LSD out there from a variety of people each with different experiences with acid:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_article2.shtml

"I took approximately 100 µg and found it to be exactly what I'd expect from a solid single hit of good quality blotter. In terms of body load, the effects felt comparable to almost all batches of acid I've taken before. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. It was a great experience, and for me helped answer the question of whether the acid I've had before was good material, and the answer is yes." - R

While they aren't here on BL to comment, regarding LSD purity there shouldn't really be too much f a difference, I wonder if its a mistake in the synth that could possibly lead to this, one that is simple to make but difficult to identify. However that would be starting to break the rules and going completely off-topic...What about these non-ergoloids? ;)
Click to expand...

AFAIK, no one tested Sandoz's acid. Anectodal reports indicate that various underground chemists have surpassed their quality.

DwayneHoover, while we have only Owsley's word, do you not believe in the hypothesis that visual perception of the medium can a play a role ? While I yearn for the scientific method, "stories" are pretty much all we have, and to me, this one sounds plausible.

THC2LSD, do you have any references for the impuritis found in street LSD ?
 
Ismene said:
Can't see any reason why Owsley would lie about it tho. He said he simply put different coloured food dyes on the same sheet and people were coming back saying "The red is righteously mellow, the yellow is a bummer and the green is sooo clean".

I can easily believe it happening. You saw it happening when mushrooms were legal in the uk, people were selling the columbian cubensis as "heavy" while the mexican cubensis were "giggly". People believed it when it was utter bullshit.
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^ I'm highly behind this, as peoples expectations play a huge role in how their trips play out. I'll give a personal example of my own. I've shared 2C-E with.. 10 or 11 people now who'd never tried it before? We all know how a good percentage of people have uncomfortable bodyloads and nausea with 2C-E right? Of those people, 1 person had nausea and threw up - he had previously read plenty about 2C-E on sites like BL and heard all the horror stories, another 1 person had some difficulty on the come up because I warned him he might experience this. The other 8-9 I did not mention anything about any bodyload to, just explained it was a clean visual creative trip - and that's exactly what all of them experienced, no problems at all.

The mind is a very powerful thing, especially when it comes to psychedelics ;)
 
Seen the exact same thing Jesusgreen with 2C-E and have to agree. Unfortunately I was one of the people who read up too much and boked everywhere, but I did sniff it. Same with the shrooms and even acid round here, people comment that certain tabs are real giggly ones, etc. It's not, it's just the setting although I'd happily discuss what blotter I felt I laughed more on. But the same blotter I've had my most laughter filled trips on I've also had bad trips, filled with panic on too.

Thecian said:
AFAIK, no one tested Sandoz's acid. Anectodal reports indicate that various underground chemists have surpassed their quality.
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Never considered that, but it's likely the people who tried this in the report above would have only taken underground chemist's LSD before hand, which could potentially be 'better quality'. In fact it's probably the only way (except the quality)? And they've reported it to be the same.
 
Thecian said:
DwayneHoover, while we have only Owsley's word, do you not believe in the hypothesis that visual perception of the medium can a play a role ? While I yearn for the scientific method, "stories" are pretty much all we have, and to me, this one sounds plausible.
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What pisses me off is people citing it as some kind of "proof" or "scientific evidence" when claiming "all 'LSD' is necessarily 100 real pure perfect LSD". BULLSHIT.

It's an ANCIENT verbal anecdotal here-say word-of-mouth tall-tale apocryphal story from a wild & crazy drug using drug maker, nothing more.

It should be given ZERO veracity in these discussions. Please, people stop regurgitating it, it is MEANINGLESS!!!
 
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IamMe90 said:
I don't think any "foreign contaminants" are going to be active in LSD-like doses. In which case, impure LSD would simply mean less LSD. I don't think that's the cause of your physical oddities.
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Bullshit. There are things that are active at similar levels. Ditch your religious belief that "All 'LSD' is real pure perfect LSD".

Did you read the OP of this topic? Or any of the DOZEN or so other posts documenting chems active in similar ways at similar levels?
 
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I was reading through this thread and saw there was some confusion about the GC/MS posted. The mass spec shown is actually exactly what you would expect to see for the trimethylsilyl derivative of LSD (or perhaps LSB). Attaching the trimethylsilyl group is a common way of granting compounds greater volatility for GC. That peak at 398m/z is likely the molecular ion for trimethylsilyl LSD or LSB - both of which have the same molecular weight, and would be difficult to distinguish by mass spec.

I am by no means an expert in this area, but one should be able to distinguish between LSB and LSD based on the fragmentation pattern. Given the anecdotal reports claiming this compound to have a significantly shorter duration (did Nichols report a shorter half-life for LSB in-vivo?) and decreased anxiety (consistent with the increased 5ht1a affinity of LSB), I would say it's fairly likely that this compound is indeed lysergic acid sec-butylamide.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MLD-41

Mld41

Turns into LSD as a metabolite. I think I have come across it in liquid. Took 3 hours to take effect. Lasted 8 hours. Took two of the tiniest drops ever, effects took a while but were identical to LSD.
I'm wondering if anyone knows whether this would be theoretically easier or harder to produce.
 
The only difference between this and LSD is a methyl group at the indole nitrogen. This would be, theoretically, slightly more difficult to produce - but not very. If someone had a means for acquiring 1-methyl ergoloids as starting material for such a procedure it would be exactly the same procedures as producing LSD itself - its quite possible that these compounds would be easier to procure especially for small scale synthesis (sansert).

Anyways, I don't want to get in trouble with one of my first posts here by leading this into synthesis discussion territory, but the moral of the story is that anyone inclined to make LSD could very easily make quite a number of closely related compounds, and probably more just for fun than for any sort of conspicuous business or legality reasons.
 
Interesting posts :) some of the enterprising chemists of the psychedelic counterculture certainly played around & produced some similar things. A couple things I'm curious about that I don't have an answer for though are 1) Mass production could be an economic liability for such an organization if a chemical turned out to be less desirable or there was an issue with scaling up from the initial tests. This would be a disincentive. 2) Knowing there's a substantial niche market for such things, why not make some available via already existing channels to intrepid psychonauts who would probably pay well above lsd's market retail value?

I'm sure your more creative LSD chemists & their friends have taken a variety of ergoloids, there just seems scant evidence that its made it much beyond those circles. Not saying it couldn't have happened, just that there's a lack of evidence for it.

Hopefully at some point a nerd who ends up with some funky acid & has access to GC/MS or something similar will post the resulting readouts in this thread. Until then I kinda think of this like I do Bigfoot ;)
 
Major Dude, I suspect the niche market for alternate ergoloids is fairly difficult to exploit.

Chemist would first have to prove that LSD-XYZ is a desireable experience (in some or all ways more desireable than LSD-25) and that it is sufficiently potent compared to LSD-25 as well. Then said chemist or the chemist's salesman will have to convince buyers that they will be glad to invest $100,000+ on something that is not LSD-25 but "probably better". I just don't see a lot of people lining up for the alternative when they are looking to buy a 10-pack or 100-pack of grams. That's a huge investment and it's all about the money contrary what some people would like to believe. Sure it's about the love for LSD too, but when you're spending that much money to make twice that much money, it's definitely about the money.

This, along with other evidence both real and anecdotal, is why I believe whenever these LSD-XYZ are made, they are just sold as "LSD". There are already people lining up to buy LSD. Also the alternative ergoloids being produced have to be made because they are for some reason easier or cheaper for the chemist. There is no motive to create something potentially more interesting which is any more expensive or difficult than LSD already is.

Because when Johnny Trips flys out to Oregon to pick up his 100 grams for let's say $700,000, do you really think he's going to spend another $350,000 on some mystery chemical?

Then again if you have some cheaper equally potent ergoloid and sell it to him as LSD... as long as everyone likes it and it seems strong enough he's probably never going to question it.
 
Non-LSD Ergoloids

I tried a blotter in white paper non perforated written with pencil and I got sickening effects at +4h, numbing tongue, etc, I feel very identified with the effects described in the first post. Visuals had ergoloid nature, but somewhat different, no "holiness" and the sickening effect lasted some weeks, with much anxiety, this never happened to me with real LSD at low-medium/high doses. I took this tabs convinced that they were LSD.

No enlightenment at all, no "LSD headspace", I won't take this tabs again.

Energy Control has tested this checking that it has LSD and a considerable quantity of iso-lsd. I attach the lab results.

I can't find the attachment button :S http://www.sendspace.com/file/rxwz4m
 
This thread has been an enlightening read. I'm about to have access to AL-LAD and am excited to leave a trip report for it, as this is a very rare chemical. Dwayne must be a 14 year old when he gets on the forums here. There's no need to be obnoxious, we can all read what you're saying whether it's in caps or not. NAHMEAN?

I've always been on the side that set and setting are largely under appreciated when comparing separate experiences, but it's very possible that other things were made, especially in light of precursors becoming so difficult to get. If you guys want a laugh, go read the Avenger's thread over on the SR forums. Bunch of hippies over there always spitting nonsense. They all believe in the amber/silver/whatever shit and don't see it's their minds playing tricks on them :)
 
I don't know if this has been covered as I tried to read this whole thread, but ended up skimming halfway through (so sorry if this is repetitive). I know that a lot of drug users are naïve when I comes to psyches. I also know that everyone has heard of lsd. lsd is not super hard to make, but is not easy either and requires illegal precursors. so unless you know some old hippies or advanced chemists its hard to come by a super steady supply of acid (especially if you live in an area with not much of a psychedelic society or you live in a small town ect.). I used to sell drugs including 2c's because there was a small demand (mostly just sold weed, 4 aco, and mdma and I never lied about my product). you would not believe the demand for lsd among young people who had never tried it but tried other psyches. I knew where to get DOx's and NBOMe's and could have easily made a fortune LEGALLY selling them as lsd (most people never hear of these rc's).. and they wouldn't even know... anyone who is less moral about selling (aka most dealers) would just sell them whatever was cheap on blotters or even easier on sugar cubes to mask the taste. so even though I think there is a lot of real lsd out there, I think it is in the same state as ecstasy is today where half (or more!) lsd is just some rc.
just my two cents
 
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