Phenethylamines The Big & Dandy Methallylescaline (MAL) Thread

[FrenchAlps]

From my understanding - I read as much as I can here and on other forums - there's not a huge gap between oral and plugged. I'm not 100% sure about it, but I remember reports mentionning it was quite equal. Plugging seems to be easier nausea wise though, the one time I did it, even though I can't tell how much I took because of the malfunctionning scale, I only threw up once and was immediately relieved. The experience was surprinsigly strong as I was expecting a 20mg medium trip. It turned out to be overwhelmingly intense at times, yet I can say it was the most bewildering experience I've had with any psychedelic, leaning into entities territory ; I have clouded recollections of it, I was very disoriented, but some of them are very strong. I still have vivid images in my head. To cut it short, some kind of elvish looking entities inspecting the threads of Existence, which were flowing from some kind of everflowing fountain, they would lift these threads with their long and pointy fingers. I was a mere spectator, not interacting but hearing the entities comment on what they would see in these threads, as if they were reporting what they saw. I could hear their voice in my heads, like in telepathy, but I couldn't interact or reply. Their speeches were a constant syllabic flow, no pause between words, I couldn't understand the meaning but it still made sense on an intuitive level. It was so strong and chaotic I never managed up until now to make some kinf of trip report. I was awfully overheating but had many water bottles, no kidney pain or distrubances.

Back to my question of mixing it with LSD, reading reports on psychedelics or other drugs reminds me of film reviews ... there are so many contrasted reviews you don't even know if what you'd like to watch will be good or terrible. You have to try it for yourself to make your own opinion in the end. My question was broader than my intent in using MAL next week. I'll try it safely after a failed attempt, without adding LSD or anything else, but am still interested in knowing if anyone did it before and if it gave the trip a different state, or color, whatever you name it

If anyone has recommandations on the MAL dose, I'd appreciate too ... 40mg seemed to be a safe dose for a strong trip, but maybe some of you have tried it or gone higher up to 65mg

Anyway, thank you all for your answers

 

[Xorkoth]

Wait, surely there's not that much of a difference for MAL right? Never got that impression from experiences I've read, I'd think it's about the same potency otherwise people have been tripping hard on this drug but I don't know for sure, I guess it varies from person to person as well.

I took 45mg my only time and found it to be a great level, wouldn't have wanted to have taken more though, that's what I thought at the time at least.

Well I guess I just assumed given that most phens I've tried seem to be about double potency plugged vs oral. I actually have no idea.

 

[Innerpeace]

From my understanding - I read as much as I can here and on other forums - there's not a huge gap between oral and plugged. I'm not 100% sure about it, but I remember reports mentionning it was quite equal. Plugging seems to be easier nausea wise though, the one time I did it, even though I can't tell how much I took because of the malfunctionning scale, I only threw up once and was immediately relieved. The experience was surprinsigly strong as I was expecting a 20mg medium trip. It turned out to be overwhelmingly intense at times, yet I can say it was the most bewildering experience I've had with any psychedelic, leaning into entities territory ; I have clouded recollections of it, I was very disoriented, but some of them are very strong. I still have vivid images in my head. To cut it short, some kind of elvish looking entities inspecting the threads of Existence, which were flowing from some kind of everflowing fountain, they would lift these threads with their long and pointy fingers. I was a mere spectator, not interacting but hearing the entities comment on what they would see in these threads, as if they were reporting what they saw. I could hear their voice in my heads, like in telepathy, but I couldn't interact or reply. Their speeches were a constant syllabic flow, no pause between words, I couldn't understand the meaning but it still made sense on an intuitive level. It was so strong and chaotic I never managed up until now to make some kinf of trip report. I was awfully overheating but had many water bottles, no kidney pain or distrubances.

Back to my question of mixing it with LSD, reading reports on psychedelics or other drugs reminds me of film reviews ... there are so many contrasted reviews you don't even know if what you'd like to watch will be good or terrible. You have to try it for yourself to make your own opinion in the end. My question was broader than my intent in using MAL next week. I'll try it safely after a failed attempt, without adding LSD or anything else, but am still interested in knowing if anyone did it before and if it gave the trip a different state, or color, whatever you name it

If anyone has recommandations on the MAL dose, I'd appreciate too ... 40mg seemed to be a safe dose for a strong trip, but maybe some of you have tried it or gone higher up to 65mg

Anyway, thank you all for your answers

You had a surprising strong experience with 20 mgs mal plugged? And you're scale was off, correct? And saw elves with long fingers?

In Shulgins writeup he mentioned first time doing it was surrounded by unreality and was too much. He did oral dosing. He went higher and sometimes said it was okay and sometimes said, too much.

 

[FrenchAlps]

You had a surprising strong experience with 20 mgs mal plugged? And you're scale was off, correct? And saw elves with long fingers?

In Shulgins writeup he mentioned first time doing it was surrounded by unreality and was too much. He did oral dosing. He went higher and sometimes said it was okay and sometimes said, too much.

Yes, I was already suspecting my scale was about to let me down but decided to trip that night on an impulse which is the worst thing to do ... I understood that night that being somewhat experienced could lead to unreasonable behaviors. Lesson learned I guess but you never know ...

So I went whit this 20mg trip, which I thought would be a way to feel what MAL was all about without pushing it too much. Impulsive trip as I said, setting was far from being ideal as I had to stay in my bedroom, another big mistake. In a way I was glad I could lay on my bed, unfortunately all I had to do was closing my eyes, which led me to this dreamy state and these incredible visions. The bodyload was intense but I didn't mind as I was in bed. My poor wife had to endure me talking for some time, trying to describe what I was living without being able to to speak rationnaly Speaking was difficult mechanically, both in french (my mother tongue) and in english (it's often easier when I'm high - few words to use, simple sentence structure).

As for Schulgin's comments, I have both Pikhal and Tikhal but did not finished reading, I know there a few lines on MAL but don't remember anything about unreality surrounding the trip. I'll go back to the book and dig it, thanks for the tip

If it were to happen again next time, the better setting should ease it a lot and even make it en enjoyable moment as I will be surrounded by nature, eyes opened most probably as being in bed made me close them as a reflex, the campfire and starlight should give it a nice touch too !

 

[FrenchAlps]

I did it !

Yesterday, back from a 12h long workday, this session was programmed days ago, until I felt very tired once back home. I took some time to think about it, almost resigned but went to take a nap and see how I felt after waking up, I finally decided this was the night. I ate llightly, rice and fish, more than 2 hours before the trip (I can't seem to be comfortable while tripping if I'm really hungry so I keep a security margin without being starved) and got all my stuff prepared : tent with matress and blankets, chopped some wood for the firecamp and woodstove inside the tent, gathered phone and headphones for some music and of course, some water and even some cans of coke if I felt weak or nauseous. Toothbrush and paste too if I was to vomit. I recalibrated my scale before weighing 40mg MAL fumarate and plugged the whole mixture, I had thought about making two shots but went for one as I was late on my schedule, my step son needed to talk after a shitty day at work so I took some time with him.

I can definitely confirm my first experience with MAL was way, way overdosed. That time, within 10 minutes, everything became wavy and blurry with a strong bodyload starting to kick in. Yesterday, it was just a smooth come up, I felt the psychedelic feeling withing minutes but nothing too strong or uncomfortable. I played some guitar while lying on the grass until it became too dark, I got the guitar back in my house without trouble and lit the fire. It all came up gradually, taking its time, I was around the fire, feeding it to have some light, and felt the need to walk in the grass barefooted, observing trees dancing with the wind. I can't tell how much time passed, something between an hour or two when slight visuals starting to kick in, the grass was breathing, and the stars were connecting, it seemed like the sky was alive and constellations were dancing, I happened to meet a glow worm, fascinating green light in the shadow of the trees. I went in my tent as it was windy and a little too cold for my taste,lit the woodstove for some heat and lied down in the dark with music. I spent hours enjoying all kinds of sounds. My body was also very sensitive, great erotic feeling just with my hand gliding on my skin. Headspace was very nice yet lucid, never overwhelming, bodyload minimal which was surprising. I never felt really nauseous, the few times I felt discomfort, it went away with drinking as I was very dry in the throat. I vaporized a little weed while listening to music, one hit boosted the visuals and that was enough. I took another one a few hours later but didn't feel the need to do more.

All in all, very pleasant trip, different from LSD or shrooms pace wise, visuals were different too, not the same patterns, less geometric but very influenced by music in a dark setting. At some point, having my eyes closed or not didn't make a big difference except it was easier to let my mind flow when closed. At that dose, it seems I found a sweet spot as I could still be functionnal while having a trippy headspace and some nice visuals. I ended up the night at home, took some etizolam to sleep, ate something as I was really hungry and went to bed quietly with a smile on my face. Now I'm going through the day lightheaded but feeling good, nice afterglow and nothing to do except taking care of me.

Thank you all posters for your precious informations, I revisited the whole thread yesterday and it helped a lot ! I'll definitely use MAL in the future, maybe I'll up the dose a little but I'm not sure ... sometimes less is more and I had a very pleasant night.

 

[Innerpeace]

I think I went too high or a dose or too frequent for myself. Either that or something else caused severe depression.

I haven't felt this low in a long time. That said, it's not about the feelings that produce results. Further, if it's something else, like cannabis tolerance can cause depression, from what I understand from a new podcast by Andrew Huberman.

I haven't done a psychedelic in a month. Dosed 27 mgs fumurate. The next few days afterwards, And when it mostly left my system or fully left, I seemed to be having mood issues.

Not saying that it was Mal but it's possible. I've used Mal, maybe seven times this year and 5 mapb a couple times, this year.

 

[Achten]

I think I went too high or a dose or too frequent for myself. Either that or something else caused severe depression.

I haven't felt this low in a long time. That said, it's not about the feelings that produce results. Further, if it's something else, like cannabis tolerance can cause depression, from what I understand from a new podcast by Andrew Huberman.

I haven't done a psychedelic in a month. Dosed 27 mgs fumurate. The next few days afterwards, And when it mostly left my system or fully left, I seemed to be having mood issues.

Not saying that it was Mal but it's possible. I've used Mal, maybe seven times this year and 5 mapb a couple times, this year.

the older I get, the less cannabis I can use. Im making the switch to CBD weed now. No more mood swings and hangovers. If I use weed its at the comedown of a trip, but the doses are mere micro/mini-doses actually.

Have you tried micrododing MAL? I find 1,5mg acts like a motivator/anti-depressant.

get well soon, but give yourself time !

 

[Xorkoth]

Same here... a lot of people I know experience the same thing, though I also know people who are in their 60s and 70s who still love weed and use it daily without it ever switching to giving them problems. I started getting anxiety from weed a few years ago... actually it started even longer ago than that, but it switched to the point that I can't relx on weed a few years ago. I still use it from time to time, mostly if I'm out to see live music or if the right social situation pops up. I can tell when it will be good for me, and then it's really good because I have zero tolerance, and I get really high, it's a strong drug again for me, that alters my perception substantially and is psychedelic-esque (but obviously different in character from serotonergic psychedelics). When delta-8 THC came out, I loved it because I got no anxiety from it. But after a while I started getting anxiety from it, too, albeit less than delta-9.

I'm glad it happened though, because I rarely even think about weed anymore, which is nice because it gets to be a special drg for me again, and I probably will never spend a penny on it again (I bought 100 grams of delta-8 THC distillate some time ago and I tend to prefer delta-8 anyway, especially taken orally, and it will last me the rest of my life, easily). And chronic use of weed really substantially alters you, in ways you can't even tell if you're used to it . It affects my motivation and mood to the extent that when I stopped, I was shocked, I had thought it was normal for me to be a tiny bit high (because you don't really get more than a tiny bi high when you smoke all the time), and that I was unaffected... but in fact, it was having a large effect on me, and it was not positive like I had thought it was.

 

[Innerpeace]

the older I get, the less cannabis I can use. Im making the switch to CBD weed now. No more mood swings and hangovers. If I use weed its at the comedown of a trip, but the doses are mere micro/mini-doses actually.

Have you tried micrododing MAL? I find 1,5mg acts like a motivator/anti-depressant.

get well soon, but give yourself time !

I have . Did 4 mgs and it was terrific. I've never seen much of any visual on of mal. Only visuals ever seen were on microprin.
I saw a bit maybe re than floaters moving looking at ceiling ,in my brother's room lying down. When outside, trees forest and rocks were moving a bit.

Twenty seven mgs was highest dose done of mal And maybe some brightened colors. Maybe on par with an ecstacy capsule I've done before. But definitely not getting into the realm of too much psychedelic, which I experienced super bright colors on 107 mgs 5 mapb , and severe serotonin syndrome afterwards for over a week.

 

[Innerpeace]

Wanted to update everyone on the possible Mal burnout for lack of a better word. I would compare it when I did ecstasy only this is different and it's more depressing that was just that was totally different this is hard to put a word on it. If anyone didn't know I've done Mal maybe six times this year I've started out at 11 mg and my list maybe two or two three weeks ago was 27 mg. In that time I did five mapb twice what is also a phethylamine, 20 mgs so low dosed.

Now this could have been something else or a combination of this but every time I seem to do a lot of peneifa means and I go through some severe stress this time it was a relationship I seem to get very depressed and emotional overwhelmed not anxious so much but sometimes maybe but yeah like super down which has happened before with ecstasy abuse and all Phenethylamine drugs.

I did micro dose a week or so ago 4 mg and I wonder if that causes delayed healing. Because last night I broke down and cried like I have it in a long time. Imagine killing myself which is rare for me I've done this twice recently since I'm now experience and before this I've thought about it but I've never actually imagined it like this I'm not saying this is a cause of it, because I have come across some information to instead of visualizing what you want visualizing what you don't want and that can motivate you the fear of getting what you want if that makes any sense?

Anyways just being cautious and I've also heard that doing another substance that works on different receptors you can use them as long as not this substance better safe than sorry but if you think you can help you then maybe experiment with it. I'm extremely open-minded I'm up there on the 9 and 10 scale of open-mindedness , as I think many people that are consistent on this forum are more than likely on the scale of at least a seven or higher , in the openness scale of one to ten.

 

[Innerpeace]

Is it a bad idea to mix this with 5 map?

Or mix with 6 apb?

 

[Pfafffed]

Unknown. People have mixed it with MDMA without experiencing harm, but that's not a reliable indication of safety. Plenty of drugs that can be harmful or fatal when combined are only harmful or fatal when combined by some people, some of the time.

I think there are reasons to be cautious regarding this combination. MAL is very safe, but the few hospitalizations have involved urinary or kidney issues iirc. MDMA can also impact antidiuretic hormone and fluid retention iirc, which is enough to make me hesitate in saying that combining methallylescaline with 5/6-(M)APB would be fine.

I'm not aware of any reports of adverse reactions. That said, neither benzofurans nor the mescaline analogs are super commonly used, let alone combined.

If I were to combine them, I would take less than usual of both, as the two are sure to synergize. If they were known to be safe in combination, then I would imagine it to be an enjoyable combination, if maybe a little heavy on some of the side effects. @simstim might have some more insight.

 

[simstim]

Is it a bad idea to mix this with 5 map?

Or mix with 6 apb?

I think it's possibly a good combo. I've combined it with mdma successfully.

If you've been having suicidal ideation I have to caution you about tripping or rolling. Both could potentially put you in a frame of mind where you might try something dumb if you know what I mean.

I know two people who have attempted suicide after ingesting empathogens so I always caution anyone who is feeling depressed not to roll. That goes for psychedelics too.

Please be careful and know yourself.

 

[Innerpeace]

Old batch lasted a year, stored in , 70-75degrees in dark closest, in container. New bad h, friend tried 23 mgs said git nothing. Haven't done it myself bc I feel burnout from dosing too much of it , past year.

That said, is this best stored like LSD, shrooms, or sub 4 typtamines, in a freezer?

It is a phenylamine, and from what Is know aren't this okay to be store in dark, 70-75 degrees and container?

 

[Innerpeace]

Bump to last question and

Has anyone combined this with a dopamine and noradrenaline,ne, booster like ephedrine or dmaa, or 2 fma, or 3 fmp, and does it make it more like MDMA?

 

[Boognish]

Holy shit combod with a solid dose of L and I’m in fuggin space! I’ve been sleeping on this combo fuck!! Amazing textures! adds a spacial, layered depth to the overall lsd experience! the mal really brings out the edges of the L visuals if you follow me. Like the old 70’s yellow submarine style animation - fully immersed in 60-70’s cartoons. ! I’ll take this over a candy flip any day wow! that is all have to say for now. good day amigos

 

[perpetualdawn]

What was your dosage @Boognish ?

 

[Innerpeace]

Remember lower doses up to a point are more like MDMA after a certain point and there's a transition phase of course it becomes more like LSD.

How is rectal compared to oral dosing,? Does it cause a person to administer less milligrams?

 

[SuperPsych]

I think it's possibly a good combo. I've combined it with mdma successfully.

If you've been having suicidal ideation I have to caution you about tripping or rolling. Both could potentially put you in a frame of mind where you might try something dumb if you know what I mean.

I know two people who have attempted suicide after ingesting empathogens so I always caution anyone who is feeling depressed not to roll. That goes for psychedelics too.

Please be careful and know yourself.

I'm responding to an old post but I want to back this up. I don't think it's a good idea to roll if you're suicidal. I have used psychedelics to pull myself out of suicidal depression but that's not me saying that it'd be fine for everyone. There are certain times in life where it's probably not a good idea to consume anything that can affect mood or behavior.

I've attempted suicide twice. The first time was while I was on 5-MAPB. I always thought if someone would kill themselves because of an empathogen it'd be because of the comedown or recovery week afterwards. I did it during the peak though. Serotonin plays a role in how we experience fear, so it makes sense that taking something that makes you not feel fear might not be a good idea if you've been having suicidal thoughts, as fear and self-preservation are the main reasons people don't attempt suicide.

The second time was while I was in the middle of a meth bender. Don't think I need to explain that one

 

[perpetualdawn]

One of the characteristics of empathogens like MDMA is that they amplify acceptance, to an extreme. It makes sense that if someone is suicidal it could potentially amplify the idea of accepting one's own suicide, having less mental barriers and less fear coming from that self-preservation instinct.

I remember taking MDMA once and finding that it was no problem to walk barefoot on some very sharp gravel that I normally could not. It wasn't that it was working as an analgesic, but because it made it so easy to accept the feeling of the sharp gravel on my feet. Another anecdote was watching a friend sit himself in a rushing glacial stream, and just sit there easily for about 20 minutes, relaxed, holding conversation, with his body tapping into some kind of Wim Hof mode (this was before the Wim Hof phenomenon), accepting the coldness of the water enabled by the MDMA. So I can see how MDMA could potentially be dangerous for someone who is suicidal because it might make it too easy to resolve that second voice holding a person back from taking the leap etc.

I think SSRIs can counter-intuitively trigger suicide, I wonder if it's basically for the same reason or something else.

Thanks for sharing your insight and experience @SuperPsych