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Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Amanita Mushrooms Thread

It sounds like this mushroom is an asshole who draws the tap and leaves it running. ;)
 
The amanitas had some serious impact on me. I just took them a couple hours ago and will write a trip report when I feel more normal.
 
I think I definitely took them way too fast. I was sitting with my friends talking and we were smoking some weed (probably also not the best idea for a first time) and I had just figured the amanitas weren't really gonna do much because I've heard so many people say they don't do anything so often. I had eaten like 6 or 7 grams or so relatively quickly and I started to feel pretty funky. I drank a glass of water and started heading to the bathroom in case I got sick. I did not make it to the bathroom. I guess I technically did, but I can't remember actually seeing it. Before I got there I sort of blacked out into some bizarre dream and I think I saw myself in the mirror but I thought it was some kind of angel entity of light or something. I vaguely remember falling but I don't even think my eyes were open. When I started to get lucid again my friends were helping me up and I was able to get up and walk outside but I had my eyes squeezed shut and wasn't able to open them. They just talked to me to keep me grounded and I started to realize I had really fucked up my face. When I fell I had hit my teeth and nose against the counter in the bathroom really hard and split my lip and scraped up the inside of my mouth. I'm lucky I didn't lose any teeth or break my nose, I know that because they're still sore 24 hours later and super tender. A butterfly stitch helped my lip, but it was gnarly. Anyway, I felt like I wasn't as much in control of my body and kept getting weird spasms but as long as I kept reminding myself where I was and what really happened I was ok. I threw up but I was pretty lucid. I just went home and watched TV and felt pretty nice after that. Crazy shit.

When I woke up this morning, I felt like I had slept the deepest, most satisfying sleep of my life.
 
Solipsis said:
Did you have access to drinking water, or was it no use even trying to stay hydrated?

Not sure how common it is to experience the side-effects strongly like that, if it is normal people should know to expect it.

It's almost silly that mushrooms like these should exist. But to be sure, psilocybian mushrooms can also be incredibly silly.
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Not to resurrect the dead, but I feel likeiI just was unaware of how much water was going out of me in comparison to intake. I made a series of poor judgment mistakes, but I won't be ever trying them again.
 
I read a report about a group of researchers that ate Amanita and then decided to save their urine..... apparently it has been documented that whatever the chemical is that makes it a psychedelic / derilliant/ dissocosiative is not well digested, and most off it passes through our kidneys.. Through natural effects the kidneys filter the substance.


they all found the initial typical consumption to be quite a uncomfortable experience. However as gross as it may sound the saved urine was evaporated and the crystals left behind were harvested.

yup they put them in gel caps and went in for round 2 sometime later...... all of them found the experience much more settling, and less uncomfortable. Strange read for sure, but pretty scientific. If possible though I am surprised no one ever came up with a way to extract without physical human digestion involved. Must be a chemical way to simulate what happens once consumed.
 
There is ibotenic acid and muscimol in the mushrooms, the ibotenic acid is rather like a neurotoxin that converts into the deleriant substance muscimol in the human body. The muscimol isn't really metabolised quickly but the more cycles the substances have passed through a human body the more muscimol there should be, so it is a little more sophisticated than you read but that is basically it.

The ibotenic acid can also be converted by preparation through heated drying and such.
 
Doldrugs said:
I don't think it's accurate to call it a deleriant. It's a GABA agonist with sedative/hypnotic and dissociative effects like Ambien and other z-drugs.
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I believe it is more accurate to classify them as a deliriant first, then a psychedelic. Please do not compare any sort of fungus to sedative-hypnotics, what a terrible mistake that could prove...although it can be very easy to make a comparison between a mushroom trance and the hypnotic effects of sleeping medications. Both involve a loss of control over one's own mind.
 
zyrow said:
I believe it is more accurate to classify them as a deliriant first, then a psychedelic.
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Based on what? It's neither a deleriant nor a psychedelic. It's a chemical that hits GABA receptors. Do you have any science to disprove that?

Please do not compare any sort of fungus to sedative-hypnotics, what a terrible mistake that could prove...although it can be very easy to make a comparison between a mushroom trance and the hypnotic effects of sleeping medications. Both involve a loss of control over one's own mind.
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I'm just stating a scientific fact. I'm sorry that's upsetting to you?
 
Drugs like zolpidem are rarely described as dissociatives, so that is not a really satisfying categorisation to make either. Suffice it to say these GABAergic 'hallucinogens' are atypical and while they borrow from all psychedelic, dissociative and deliriant drug properties it may be uncomfortable to try and generalize and classify them as simply one of those. When I used the term I wasn't trying to do that and I suggest none of you make the mistake of trying to be more accurate than the other just using words like that.
 
Solipsis said:
Drugs like zolpidem are rarely described as dissociatives
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Probably because it happens at doses higher than the intended therapeutic dose, but these drugs definitely can have dissociative effects. Can you point me toward some kind of scholarly source that supports muscimol as a deleriant? It seems like this chemical is poorly understood and mysterious, despite its extensive history of use.
 
The effects of intoxication can be variously described as depressant, sedative-hypnotic, dissociative, and deliriant
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Ibotenic acid and muscimol are structurally related to each other and to two major neurotransmitters of the central nervous system: glutamic acid and GABA respectively. Ibotenic acid and muscimol act like these neurotransmitters, muscimol being a potent GABAA agonist, while ibotenic acid is an agonist of NMDA glutamate receptors and certain metabotropic glutamate receptors[77] which are involved in the control of neuronal activity. It is these interactions which are thought to cause the psychoactive effects found in intoxication. Muscimol is the agent responsible for the majority of the psychoactivity
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An alternative derivation proposes that the term fly- refers not to insects as such but rather the delirium resulting from consumption of the fungus.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanita_muscaria#Psychoactive_use

source = European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug Addiction, p 17.

But also feel free to dig through the many references cited as well under the wiki page

EFFECTS CLASSIFICATION
deliriant; Psychedelic
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https://www.erowid.org/plants/amanitas/amanitas.shtml

Do we really need to go look for what the PhD guys call it, you can surely find articles.

I would agree that only calling muscimol a deliriant would be wrong and that there are also hypnotic effects, and production of states somewhere in between waking and dreaming / sleep walking. Effects may not be acutely deliriant, especially if a lower dose is taken and there may be better contact with reality than is possible with anticholinergics.
So yes there is more nuance to it, but I do think that one of the effects attributed to the intoxication ought to be delirium-like.
 
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Doldrugs said:
Based on what? It's neither a deleriant nor a psychedelic. It's a chemical that hits GABA receptors. Do you have any science to disprove that?



I'm just stating a scientific fact. I'm sorry that's upsetting to you?
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Based on The Vaults of Erowid's classification for them...got a problem with Erowid bro?! Do your homework again bro, and then do it twice more. Because the bullshit you have been posting on this thread is unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. I wish I could reach through your monitor and slap you with my 7" penis envy mushroom i just picked.
 
I don't mean to bash any further, anyway yeah the fact that it indeed does hit GABA receptors may be misleading / confusing at first. We know GABA receptors most of all from downers that act on them to produce their apparently straightforward effects. And I'm personally still very unclear about what it is that makes some GABAergic drugs rather trippy like the Z-drug non-benzodiazepines and indeed the muscimol from Amanitas (I guess it's the fact that at least muscimol binds to a different binding site on the GABAa receptor complex).
But, it's not even that simple and separate... withdrawal from GABAergic drugs that normally only rarely produce hallucinations (benzo's can occasionally just produce Z-drug trips!) can actually often be pretty delirious, they don't call delirium tremens that for nothing! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens
I read that something like chloral hydrate can produce something very similar in an Oliver Sacks book. Probably others can do that, too like maybe ludes.

I have personally been through some DTs, and actually I was in Checkoslovakia at the time... fortunately went through most of it in a (kinda shitty delapidated) hostel room while my friends went out to drink even more vodka. It was not psychedelic / mind-manifesting at all, it just made me freak out, remove me from reality and made me see advanced insomnia type shit that wasn't there. Yeah I agree with the term delirium.

So, is it still that weird that other GABAergics are actually mostly deliriants?

Also, I think this thread is pretty read to be merged into the Big & Dandy Amanitas thread so I'm gonna do that now. :)
 
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I apologize for my past comment, it was unduly harsh, I really wasn't that upset, just feeling pretty goofy off this zolpidem. My condolences.

=D

And to think if I was ever going to have a reason to post in the Amanita Big & Dandy...lol only feeling goofy off zolpidem %) would have brought me to a topic as such...
 
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I'm probably more fascinated by these than any other substance that I Very much doubt I'll ever take due to not knowing what could happen.

These seem like something FAR too unpredictable to mess around with even though I'd LOVE to give them a shot.
 
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Solipsis said:
There is ibotenic acid and muscimol in the mushrooms, the ibotenic acid is rather like a neurotoxin that converts into the deleriant substance muscimol in the human body. The muscimol isn't really metabolised quickly but the more cycles the substances have passed through a human body the more muscimol there should be, so it is a little more sophisticated than you read but that is basically it.

The ibotenic acid can also be converted by preparation through heated drying and such.
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What I read is that it's ibotenic acid that passes through the kidneys into the urine unchanged. Only about 15% of the ibotenic acid is converted into muscimol with each passage through the body. So you can drink the urine several times and get effects, up to about 5. The dose you would get would gradually become lower and lower until it's just not worth the bother anymore, if it was ever really worth it in the first place.

The neurotoxic effects of ibotenic acid are apparently only produced when injected directly into the brain. Why that is, I don't know, but that seems be the case from what I read. I think I would just stick with something like DXM instead just to be on the safe side. Eating Amanitas would probably only be worth it if you lived in Siberia with no access to any better drugs.
 
jason7 said:
I think I would just stick with something like DXM instead just to be on the safe side. Eating Amanitas would probably only be worth it if you lived in Siberia with no access to any better drugs.
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DXM is a bad mix with SSRIs, though. And personally, I find entheogens with a history of spiritual use fascinating. Cough syrup isn't quite the same thing. :)

zyrow said:
I apologize for my past comment, it was unduly harsh, I really wasn't that upset, just feeling pretty goofy off this zolpidem. My condolences.
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No worries, it was too funny to be mad about. I hope you enjoy that PE, mine never got that big!
 
jason7 said:
What I read is that it's ibotenic acid that passes through the kidneys into the urine unchanged. Only about 15% of the ibotenic acid is converted into muscimol with each passage through the body. So you can drink the urine several times and get effects, up to about 5. The dose you would get would gradually become lower and lower until it's just not worth the bother anymore, if it was ever really worth it in the first place.

The neurotoxic effects of ibotenic acid are apparently only produced when injected directly into the brain. Why that is, I don't know, but that seems be the case from what I read. I think I would just stick with something like DXM instead just to be on the safe side. Eating Amanitas would probably only be worth it if you lived in Siberia with no access to any better drugs.
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Yeah still, no thanks... I'd put more money on ibotenic acid being responsible for a lot more side effects even if it produces a rather eventful intoxication and the neurotoxicity is technically not that serious (the latter is something I have read indeed). You think the prescription of 'curing' / preparing the mushrooms by drying with heat is just pointless? From all gathered evidence I personally think that muscimol is what you want - even if it requires a bigger dosis for effects than ibotenic acid.
Cause I think that while it's not a crazy assumption you are making, people involved in drinking amanita-urine might just be focusing on potency of effects dwindling rather than the side-effects profile improving. Somehow I can also imagine people living in Siberia giving less fucks about that kind of thing than someone like me (or you).

I actually had/have pure ibotenic acid, although I seem to have misplaced it. Was planning on decarboxylating it to muscimol... but yea, am not sure where to look for it. I guess it might turn up when a study is cleaned out, for example when moving homes.
 
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