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The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Four

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Very interesting thread link and I can see the importance that you read my post and responded here. I will definitely post updates of my results and issues with tolerance. Actually this was all the info I needed if not exactly what I wanted. You can't always get what you want..but if you try sometimes..you might just find..you get what you need! I always understood that one must dose at least twice as much of the initial dose if tripping more than once in a week, at least that's what I gathered from my early lsd days. But I now view tolerance much differently. I believe one is in control of it to a certain extent. With higher doses tolerance definitely builds quickly and becomes a significant issue.
 
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In mine and friends experiences tolerance is very rapid allowing a trip about once a week or two weeks..
 
Tried 4-AcO-DMT two times 2 years ago and found I didn't like at all this substance (I tried at that moment 2c-c, 2c-e, 2c-p, 4-ho-met once, 5-meo-(mipt/dipt) once, dxm, mxe, 25i-nbome, doi - so I can compare and feel what I want and what I don't want to feel). After I read this topic I decided to give 4-AD few more tries, maybe now I am ready for it.

Tries were:
1) 15-20 mg IM - was way too much sedative with kind of dysphoric come-up but it gave me great OEVs. It was so sedative I couldn't turn off the light or change the music, or even lay on the bed. I sat on chair and slowly slid to the floor through 30 minutes after plugging and remained on it for next 2-3 hours until I feel I can stand up. So I was laying on the floor and was looking on the lamp and curtains (they are nice pale-red colour) and I know that what I see is very beautiful and I didn't want to close my eyes because there will be much less beauty.
Need to add that I used at the same day prior to 4-AD few times 5/6-APB (I don't remember now what it was exactly).

2) few days later 15-20 mg per os gives me zero visuals, just dysphoria and blues, and some flat and boring psychedelia.

After that I never touch it and then gave remain to friend (who flush it in toilet at one of his psych episode after abusing some self-made d-amph). Now I understand that I needed to make larger break... but substance is gone :) Now I returned it back to TODO-list, thanks for interesting and inspiring comments in the thread.
 
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The weird thing I read about before and discovered for myself, first time I did ~15mg and was tripping very nicely. Just a little needed for first experience. Every experience after that I had to do at least 30-40mg for similar trip, even when properly spaced, but I must say I really enjoyed it, but I do agree it's very sedating.
 
I've been using this once every 6 or 7 days (weekend evenings) for ~1 month at the moment. Started at 10 mg oral (fumarate salt), and am currently at ~15 mg intranasal.

I'm pretty sure that I prefer snorting as opposed to oral consumption for a number of reasons;

1) I don't have to starve myself prior to redosing.
2) I find less stomach upset.
3) ramps up quicker and ends quicker sometimes I'm quite happy at only a 2 hour adventure).
4) redosing at the 2 hour mark extended things by 2 hours; also a nice enough amount

I'll probably go gradually to 24mg (like I did last year), until I exhaust my supply. But lower amounts (10, 12 mg) still hold much magic.

Tom
 
Would just like to warn people about dosing 40mg+

Ive had one excellent experience with 20mgs of this, and 2 good experiences with 30mgs.

So i decided to take around 45mgs one day. And i would not recommend it unless you are ready for an extremely strong experience. Ive done 8 tabs of acid before on my own and had an amazing trip. But something about this substance, at that dose, felt extremely unnatural. I had a difficult time and am usually very strong when it comes to psychadelics.

'Unnatural' is the key word i would bare in mind in my warning! Usually i feel more in touch with reality and nature on psychedelics, but something about this stuff makes things really 'still' and very wierd indeed.
 
I.M. injection of 10mgs of 4ACO-DMT was not fun at all. This was my first time experimenting with this ROA and i will not repeat this trial, although the psychedelia was intensly plesant. The comeup was VERY INTENSE and not enjoyable. Then the nausea (I puked up starburst FavoReds and the whole entire bathroom turned a delightful pink hue). Went to bed to lay down and watch a kids movie which was really cool. The itchies were prominant. 1MG xanax blotter was needed for sleep at T+4:00

In summary this compound ROCKS, but the comeup from IM injection had side effects 4x-5x worse than what I would expect from equivalant oral intoxication.

I love I.M. because I think it is the superior ROA for many compounds, but not this one :/
 
Great reliable solid psych RC, IME, however i have to dose very high to get a pleasant trip (sniffed or oral) however it floors me too much, i prefer 4-HO-MET, much "lighter" with similar visual and psych experiences, but way easier to handle IMO/IME

However interested to combo this with a clean upper....
 
Phatass have you tried 4-aco-met? How does it compare to its HO counterpart if so? My vendor for 4-aco-dmt is out >.>
 
^^ unefortunately not (yet... ;)) but tried 4-ACO-DET, another solid one in my books...
 
I was browsing the bufotenin Tihkal entry on erowid.. and i noticed Shulgin said this:

The are two structural variations of bufotenine that I feel would be interesting to explore. One deals with the ethers of the 5-hydroxyl group. The O-methyl ether is, of course, 5-MeO-DMT. It is mentioned above under the name O-methylbufotenine. What about the very obvious O-ethylbufotenine, 5-EtO-DMT? It had once been synthesized from 5-ethoxytryptophol in a physostigmine study, and had been converted to bufotenine with aluminum chloride. If the analogy from the phenethylamines applies here (MEM is as potent as TMA-2) then 5-EtO-DMT should be as potent as 5-MeO-DMT. And probably would have to be smoked for the very same reasons. Another variation deals with possible esters on that 5-hydroxyl group. Finding activity in things like the bisulfate bufoviridine would be unlikely, but perhaps an acetate ester (easily made from bufotenine and acetic anhydride) would allow it to make it into the CNS, in a manner similar to the acetate of the 4-hydroxy analogue, psilocin.

It looks like Shulgin is saying he knows 4-AcO-DMT does indeed get into the brain... (since people often say it just metabolizes into psilocin, when its pretty clear to me it is different in effect)

https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal19.shtml
 
Would just like to warn people about dosing 40mg+

Ive had one excellent experience with 20mgs of this, and 2 good experiences with 30mgs.

So i decided to take around 45mgs one day. And i would not recommend it unless you are ready for an extremely strong experience. Ive done 8 tabs of acid before on my own and had an amazing trip. But something about this substance, at that dose, felt extremely unnatural. I had a difficult time and am usually very strong when it comes to psychadelics.

'Unnatural' is the key word i would bare in mind in my warning! Usually i feel more in touch with reality and nature on psychedelics, but something about this stuff makes things really 'still' and very wierd indeed.

Geeze, I trip pretty good at 12-15mg (of the freebase so it's slightly more potent). However my trips have lacked beautiful fractals and the like, but I was still tripping as I could watch a crumpled piece of paper breathe in my hand.

Does this substance just lack them? I sure got them with 4-HO-DMT made by mother nature.

I always took it by non-oral routes therefore avoiding first pass metabolism resulting in higher plasma levels of the parent drug instead of psylocin, which the 4-acetoxy-dmt is a pro-drug for. If it is active on it's own that might explain it. I'll have to take a similar dose orally and see if it changes qualitatively.
 
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I have serious doubts that 4-AcO-DMT is simply a prodrug for psilocin. In fact I am as positive as I can possibly be that it crosses the BBB unchanged at least in some amount because for me the effects are entirely different from 4-HO-DMT (which I have tried pure as well as in mushrooms - FYI pure 4-HO-DMT is also substantially different from mushrooms though much more similar to them than it is to 4-AcO-DMT). I am 100% certain I could easily tell the two apart in a double-blind study, that's how different they are, they do not feel like the same drug whatsoever. My working theory is that depending on individual metabolic factors, different people convert different amounts of 4-AcO-DMT to 4-HO-DMT before it crosses the BBB. I believe I barely convert any, as for me, 4-AcO-DMT is shorter than 4-HO-DMT and it feels almost exactly like an oral smoked DMT experience (if that makes sense)... the feeling both mentally and physically, and visually, is exactly like a less powerful and much slower smoked DMT experience. I find 4-HO-DMT to be much deeper, and preferable. But some people report 4-AcO-DMT to be quite a bit like mushrooms but gentler and longer-lasting. For those people I speculate that much more of it gets converted to 4-HO-DMT before crossing the BBB.
 
I agree. It is more than a prodrug for sure. I'll have to take it orally and see if it changes. However I haven't taken enough to make it feel ANYTHING like DMT. I've been going easy - better safe then an accidental mindfuck :) I haven't had mushrooms in a while so I can't compare them too well. I've also had mushroom trips which differed very much - is psilocybin active and not merely a prodrug as well?
 
I too get the DMT reminiscence from 4-aco-dmt that isn't there with mushrooms. It's pretty pronounced IME.

sean107 - I just got an order of 4-aco-met after only having had 4-ho-met before, and while I haven't had a full blown trip on it yet, just mixes with MXE (and one night MXE and cocaine), it feels very similar to 4-ho. I'll be sure and post more on it once I've had a good strong experience on it, itself.

rizmatter - I don't know, man. I feel like that could have been set and/or setting. I've taken 35mg+ doses right around five times, four of them being 40-55mg, one being 95mg, and it never felt unnatural to me. In fact, quite the opposite. Very animalistic and primal. A definite connecting with the source experience.
 
I agree. It is more than a prodrug for sure. I'll have to take it orally and see if it changes. However I haven't taken enough to make it feel ANYTHING like DMT. I've been going easy - better safe then an accidental mindfuck :) I haven't had mushrooms in a while so I can't compare them too well. I've also had mushroom trips which differed very much - is psilocybin active and not merely a prodrug as well?

I often wonder that about psilocybin (4-PO-DMT). I don't know enough about how that metabolizes to say for sure but my gut feeling is it's also not a simple prodrug. But I could be wrong there as I've never taken pure 4-PO-DMT (has anyone?). Pure speculation. There are also other substances in mushrooms. In general plant psychedelics contains a cocktail of psychoactive substances even if there is generally one that is predominant (4-HO-DMT in the case of mushrooms, mescaline in the case of cactus, etc). This cocktail, even if some of them are basically inactive by themselves, produces a synergy/interaction when all are taken together which produces effects unique to the main compound when it is isolated. This is certainly true with 4-HO-DMT and mushrooms... pure 4-HO-DMT resembles mushrooms but is decidedly different (and I can say that for sure, having been lucky enough to try pure 4-HO-DMT on several occasions).
 
I was browsing the bufotenin Tihkal entry on erowid.. and i noticed Shulgin said this:



It looks like Shulgin is saying he knows 4-AcO-DMT does indeed get into the brain... (since people often say it just metabolizes into psilocin, when its pretty clear to me it is different in effect)

https://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal19.shtml


i think you are on to something here, since people report very unfamiliar stories with ROAs like IM ... i've only used the 4 ester analogues oral and to me they pretty much seem to be exactly like mushrooms. never tried to IM tho, since the availability with oral is good enough i think.

so 4-aco-dmt might be more of a pro-drug if the compound itself crosses BBB and produces different effects?
 
Man... Shulgin was a compassionate person who had much legitimate criticism about psychedelic research before the Schedule 1 days.

But that is the politics of the drug. I cannot help but comment on some aspects of the medical ethics that accompanied these studies. Here were a collection of 14 schizophrenic patients, experimental cattle is the analogy that comes to mind, into which the researching physicians injected their drug. Listen to the account of one lady, following a rapid intravenous injection of bufotenine. "There was intense salivation. She could easily have drowned in her own saliva, and she had to be turned on her side. The pulse rate rose slightly during the period extending from the end of the injection until some 10 minutes later, but without much change in blood pressure. Responsiveness returned in about 23 minutes, at which time the patient was entirely lucid and, in response to a query related to a preinjection suggestion, spoke of a long repressed memory from the age of three years, when she came into the bathroom and saw her mother dying of a uterine hemorrhage. This was told without affect and had no therapeutic consequences." HOLY COW! A schizophrenic victim volunteers a long-repressed memory of her mother's traumatic death. And with the state of the healing art in the mental hospitals of that time, two physicians effectively ignore what today would be considered a dramatic break-through in therapy. Another of their trials was acknowledged as being nearly fatal, requiring artificial respiration as intervention. This is research in the healing art of medicine?

Ignoring breakthroughs, causing pain, and focusing on the latter due to the ignorance of the researchers. There has been a BUNCH of fucked up research in the United States; this article will piss you off: wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States
 
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