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The Big and Dandy Scale Thread (First wave - archived 10-31-07)

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MagickalKat777 said:
Does nobody ever listen?

ANY scale that is that cheap is going to be off by at least 4mg in readings and may waver even more than that... is your life worth spending less when you could spend a bit more and have more peace of mind?

Ya know what, there's no need for that kind of grandstanding.

I wanted to know if anyone had any experience with the similar model from another (respected) manufacturer/dealer.

So I ASKED before I put my life on the line.

There are occasionally good deals out there. So take it easy. If you can't answer the question specifically either don't respond at all or just try a polite, general answer.
 
MagickalKat777 said:
Its full of shit.

Those things are off by about 2-6mg every time.

Its good for measuring things where the dose isn't as sensitive but I wouldn't try it for anything else.

Anything that has the word "cheap" associated with it isn't going to be any good. That's a general rule to live by.

Let me respectfully disagree. I've found that this kind of perspective works very well at emptying my pocket.

MagickalKat777 said:
Does nobody ever listen?

ANY scale that is that cheap is going to be off by at least 4mg in readings and may waver even more than that... is your life worth spending less when you could spend a bit more and have more peace of mind?


Buying something because it is more expensive absolutely won't guaruntee accuracy and several folks have stated that the chinese scales are very adequate for measuring most RC's. Until someone with decent calibration weights can show signifigant errors in the 10/20gram x.001 scales that are much improved in the 150$ models then the cheap scales are still worthy of consideration.

I'd also say that those cheapy scales are likely one of the top purchases that people can make towards an effort at harm reduction and BL'ers should really be putting them through their paces to determine just how accurate they are and what types of chems are suitable for weighing on them.
 
I'm not even going to continue with this. It isn't worth my time.

I've used many different scales and I don't trust the cheap ones. Take this as a test: measure out 10mg on the scale... Then take it off, measure it again, take it off, measure it again. Do this 5 or 6 times... then you'll see just how "adequate" they are for research chemicals.

A lot of people buy scales to measure tryptamines... they're the least forgiving with dose in my experience and taking too much could be the difference between having an enlightened night and taking a trip to the ER.

But what do I know? I've only been doing this since 2001...
 
^^ I have found with mine ($70 one) that if I put an initial weight on, like a folder square of cardboard, it will weigh out to within +-1mg every time. Usually it starts to drift and can get away, but the initial reading it always the same or 1 higher or lower. If you don't use tare, adding to the cardboard is really quite accurate. I just make about a dozen measurements and note the weight at the beginning, and I get a result of +-1mg. For things like DOX, I weigh out a large mass and put it in liquid, but for things like 2C-B, AMT, 4-AcO-DMT, and so forth, it works great and I've never had any accidents with mis-weighing doses. If you just put the chemicals on the scale when it reads 0, then it's not going to work well. So you work around that. I mean, even if the scale is wrong, and the cardboard reads 330mg when it's really 350mg, you're just measuring the difference in weight between the plain cardboard and the cardboard with crystals on it. Let's say that the scale is 20mg off with the carcboard as I mentioned, which means that each mg it measures is roughly 330/350 = .94mg. Then measuring out a 20mg dose may be off 1mg, reading 349 instead of 370. But that gives a NET weight of the chemical at 19mg, which is a small margin or error. If it's a chemical where that's an unacceptable margin of error, then use liquid measurement. But for most things, the difference between 19 and 20mg is not significant.

I mean, yeah, everyone should buy an expensive scale, really. But not everyone has that kind of money, and it's tremendously better to buy a cheaper one than to not have one at all. No matter what anyone says, I stand by my scale, the JPrecision gemological gem scale 10gx.001g.

But I do agree that scales which only measure in 10mg or greater increments, or really even ones that measure in 2mg increments, are too ineffective. As well as some brands of 1mg scales.

Sometimes harm reduction is not perfect, and it's best to talk about plan B. If most people are never going to drop hundreds of dollars on a scale, then we should accept that no matter what it's going to happen, and begin discussing $70 scales that are good enough for most purposes if used carefully.
 
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I just think its ridiculous that people that spend 700 on research chemicals turn around and cheap out on the scale, that's all.
 
I'm thinking about getting the VIC-123 (http://balance.balances.com/scales/906), which will be ~175 euro + shipping costs. However, I still live with my parents, so I have to be able to hide the scale. Will this be that big of a problem with the Acculab?

If so, what else would you recommend? Since I'll be measuring multiple doses of DOM at once (than split later), it has at least to be reliable at ~10 mg or something like that.
 
^^^^ That will be a problem in that it's a little bulky, uses only AC power, and if it's not stored properly it can be damaged. This usually occurs when too much weight is placed on the weighing plate.

It also looks like exactly what it is--it would take a lot of creativity to convince someone it's something other than a scale...
 
Alternatives?

^As I'm not quite at home in the land of the scales, could you recommend another scale that's equally precise, but somewhat easier to hide and not so easily damaged by moving/hiding?

Thanks in advance
 
^Not sure if sources of scales are allowed, but I know for a fact ebay has ample scales at good prices. Also, I've befriended the owner of a local headshop and he has extra scales(mg and above) he'll sell me at maybe half price, of course this isn't an option for everyone, but who knows?
 
There's not going to be another scale that meets the accurary of an Acculab that's priced on the same level. Some may try to argue that Tanita scales fit the bill but Tanita has stopped making their mg scales and they've also cut off all warranty support for them.

Working with DOx chemicals, even a 1mg accuracy scale isn't adequate enough IMO. You need a laboratory balance that can read in micrograms.
 
Can anybody recommend a set of calibration weights (plus a place to buy, nothing on ebay fit the bill)? I hunted around for info on the tolerance for the various classes of weights, and couldn't really find any good information. Finally I visited the ASTM and looked up the standard itself and they wanted 35 dollars for a 7 page PDF!?!?
 
I have one of the eBay made-in-China specials. They are exactly the same as the DigiWeigh and a couple of others - 10g / 0.001g (milligram) and have the Add-Up button on them. They cost about $30 US on eBay from Hong Kong. I had a look inside and they appear to use what looks like a tuning fork. I presume its resistance changes when it bends.
Anyway, it's fairly shite, but using a grain of rice and no tare I got the following readings:
0.33 0.26 0.31 0.32 0.33 0.32 0.34 0.33 0.35 0.33

Which average out to 32.3mg

So that's not too bad.
 
I would much prefer a VIC-123 though, since I like having proper tools. Just the same as I have a proper impact gun for removing wheelnuts on my car - it's not necessary and I could just use a regular breaker bar or wheelbrace but I like having better tools, and I find uses for them :)
 
hey Carlos, using a tare you will get more accurate readings (read tare as scrap of tin foil). Most low end mg scales are not as accurate in the sub 50mg range.

For safety's sake if you are measuring out chems like 2CE, then you're best measuring out 100mg and adding it to 100ml of DH2O (its pretty stable even in liquid).

Tryptamines are different, they are less stable in liquid. But, their dose response curve is usually not as sharp as phenethlamines (ie you can 'afford' to go 2-3mg over your intended dosage so long as you are planning a reasonable dosage level).

peace and safe journeys
 
Small pills of some potent medicide, like the 5-10 mg ones. Are they grossly inaccurate to use as makeshift calibration weights? Proper weights are a-coming, but a long way from me still.
 
You should rephrase your question, it does not make sense. You know if you have a pill that has 5mg of active chemical the actual pill will be much more than that (with the mass of the inert binders).

Please rephrase and ask again.
 
I think it makes sense, the answer is just n emphatic no. In fact, it'll be FAR off, probably by tens or hundreds of milligrams.

The pills contain far more than just the active ingredients.
 
Each pill is of a known weight and composition. I am just wondering how far off the actual weight would be (so a given pill is 25mg, and the scale reads 26-27mg untared and 25mg tared with a 1g weight).
 
rikki_tikki said:
Small pills of some potent medicide, like the 5-10 mg ones. Are they grossly inaccurate to use as makeshift calibration weights? Proper weights are a-coming, but a long way from me still.

but surely those 5 - 10mg pills are 5-10mg active ingredient, plus an unknown amount of binding substances & fillers etc. Not 5-10mg actual pill weight.

edit: sorry, you all already said that ;)
 
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