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The 2018/2019 NFL Discussion Thread

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I've never used this word in my life but I'm sorry this shit was RIGGED.

half the shit I listed above was corroborated as it happened by Joe Buck and Aikman. Yet, oddly, never mentioned again afterwards.

It's ALL on camera folks, take a look for yourself. A 6-2 team with an MVP quarterback and elite defense doesn't just give up 60 fucking points.

Take Cam off the field, coach, you fucking moron! Unfucking believable.

Rivera you pussy, if I were coach I'd get ejected or walk out of the game before I let my team take this shit.

FIRST PENALTY OF THE GAME against the Steelers TEN MINUTES into the FOURTH quarter.
 
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Coach, put me in.

Why number 00 coach?

You see me in the gym.

Maybe you don't, but I see you coach.
 
Guess that'll teach us to hire Eric Reid, eh, NFL?

Same old shit. The excuse for why Cam never gets the calls other White qbs do is usually, oh, well he's a big physical player who likes to scramble. He puts himself in those situations. This year he's turned into way more of a pocket passer, so where are the calls? Ben gave himself up on that play but he did it like 2 seconds too late. Reid was already starting his tackle. You can see him trying to pull up in mid air to avoid making contact. Then the entire team overreacts and gangs up on him like he's just done something terrible. Still he apologizes repeatedly as he's ejected. Still they talk shit.

I guess Cam and Eric's personalites and black skin just don't command the same respect.
 
that sure was a blow out but i'm not sure i agree that this was rigged. the steelers were clearly the more dominant team on the night (and this coming from a guy who really dislikes the steelers)

cam's pick 6 early on was totally avoidable - he should never have thrown that ball. you play the race card with cam a lot. that was nothing to do with his being black. it was just a poor decision and he got punished for it.

the first td (smith-schuster) was a peach - he got easily open. great throw and solid td. far from elite d.

then connor just ran through a hole in the line for his td. far from elite d.

the antonio brown td was vintage ab/big ben stuff - great throw, catch and td. your man #26 just fell down... far from elite d.

3rd down td pass INCOMPLETE ruled COMPLETE. Factually incorrect call upheld upon review.
the vance macdonald td with about 8:20 remaining in the 3rd quarter? definitely a catch and td.

i agree the eric reid penalty was b.s.

sometimes good teams have bad nights. in week 9 of the 2013 season, the patriots beat the steelers 55-31 handing the steelers their biggest point loss defeat in franchise history. in week 1 last season the chiefs torched the patriots 42-27 at home.

it happens :)

alasdair
 
I play the race card a lot with Cam because it has unfortunately been played on him countless times. Do you want to go back through, and review these incidents? You challenged me on this so I'm assuming you might. Let me know.

When did I say that Cams pick six was because he's black? I'm pretty sure I never said that. I also never said Cam didn't make mistakes. That was clearly one of the mistakes last night that falls totally on him. If you see the angle though, from his perspective, it actually was a pretty good attempt to Olsen. Still a fuck up, but not hardly as terrible as it seemed.

Other than that, I think he played well under the circumstances. Our offensive line was terrible.

Pit's first TD was clean. Never said otherwise. The "elite d" thing, again, you are being a little trollish. When I used that term, it was to make the overall point that coming into this game (and in general for the past few years) our defense has been seen as elite to many. You can agree or disagree, but it's factually true that has been the consensus. By bringing up a bad defensive play in this one singular game, then repeating my "elite d" comment, it doesn't really make sense contextually.

the AB offensive pass interference TD. No. Donte Jackson didn't "just fall down". You either didn't see the play well enough, or you don't know what you're talking about. He grabbed his arm, held on to it, and pushed off. There were no flags, despite the ref being right there on the sideline, because no one had the balls to throw it. To take that huge play away from Ben and AB in front of that crowd. Joe and Troy basically admitted as much.

The incomplete pass ruled a TD...you say "definitely a catch". PFT and common sense disagrees with you. As well as both commentators as it happened. As well as the official on call, Mike Periera or whichever one it was. It was not a catch. There are dozens of examples of plays less obvious than this being overturned upon review.

I'm glad you agree on the Eric Reid ejection. Do you also agree on the atrocious non call on Watt who lowered his helmet and targeted Cams injured shoulder? That was a dirty, dirty play and SVP interviewed him on Sportcenter like he was a Boy Scout.

Good teams have bad nights. That's true. Maybe if every single terrible call had been called correctly, maybe the Panthers still lose. Definitely a possibility. Unfortunately, we will never know. Because the calls / no calls were so plentiful, and so extremely bad, they started to affect Carolina's morale. Cam was getting beat up. That affected his performance. There's no way to accurately predict how a fair game would have played out.

I think the NFL has plenty of reasons to want Pitt to do well over Carolina. The most obvious being our new owner is supportive of Reid who has an open grievance against the League. He hired him and is not pushing back against his demonstrations. Every football game ever played has had a few bad calls. That's to be expected. However, the quantity and severity of the bad calls. The blatant disregard for reality, the underutilization of replay, etc, etc, etc. I think I've made a much better supported argument than you.

edit : but seriously Ali, thanks for your input. I really do enjoy reading your takes on things
 
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the nfl catch rules are so convoluted and open to interpretation that these kinds of disagreements are guaranteed. looked like a catch to me but i don't make the decision.

on the elite d comments, i was just reflecting your comments. you stated "A 6-2 team with...elite defense doesn't just give up 60 fucking points". the fact that it wasn't 60 but 52 aside, i gave 3 examples of how your team d blew it 3 times. they may be elite but they weren't last night. that's how an elite defense just gives up 52 points - they don't play like an elite defense.

you believe the nfl rigged the game so carolina would lose. fair enough - that's an opinion to which you are entitled. i know momentum is a factor, but if you take away the ab td, the macdonald td and another just for good measure, you still lose 31-21.

alasdair
 
Yes, but you aren't accounting for the extra offensive time on the field we would have gained. Besides, I'm not trying to argue we should have won. I'm saying that game, with the officiating, was not an accurate or fair representation of the Panthers, or the Steelers actually. We might have lost, but it would have been in no way an embarrassing loss.

When I wrote the 60 number, the game wasn't quite over. We had subs in. I assumed they might score again.

that's how an elite defense just gives up 52 points - they don't play like an elite defense.

that and the refs fail to call A SINGLE foul against the Steelers until the end of the 4th quarter. Not one. Really? Wow so Bens Qbr was perfect, the played a perfect flag free game...wow.
 
I thought the roughing call on Reid was warranted under the current rules. He led with his shoulder straight to the head. That's going to get called. The ejection was BS but it had zero effect on the outcome of the game.

I didn't think the long TD pass was interference. It was a great throw and catch. The receiver gets the benefit of the doubt everytime on that call these days. You only see offensive interference on really obvious fouls these days.

I thought the game was officiated reasonably well until it was a blowout then you got some lazy calls but Carolina could of challenged.

Carolina just had no answer last night. I really thought Can was going to get knocked out of the game. He got hit on 10 of 25 dropbacks with 5 sacks. McCaffrey got exposed as a poor pass blocker on blitz pickups. That's something that everyone will try to exploit now that it is on tape.

Even if half the calls you mentioned went Carolinas way it's still a blowout. You guys got outplayed in every phase of the game.

I wouldn't read too much into it though Thursday night games on the road are really tough to win. You get basically no time to prepare.
 
I thought the roughing call on Reid was warranted under the current rules. He led with his shoulder straight to the head. That's going to get called. The ejection was BS but it had zero effect on the outcome of the game.

I didn't think the long TD pass was interference. It was a great throw and catch. The receiver gets the benefit of the doubt everytime on that call these days. You only see offensive interference on really obvious fouls these days.

I thought the game was officiated reasonably well until it was a blowout then you got some lazy calls but Carolina could of challenged.

Carolina just had no answer last night. I really thought Can was going to get knocked out of the game. He got hit on 10 of 25 dropbacks with 5 sacks. McCaffrey got exposed as a poor pass blocker on blitz pickups. That's something that everyone will try to exploit now that it is on tape.

Even if half the calls you mentioned went Carolinas way it's still a blowout. You guys got outplayed in every phase of the game.

I wouldn't read too much into it though Thursday night games on the road are really tough to win. You get basically no time to prepare.

did you watch the game? Just curious.

"Roughing call warranted...going to get called"

so...if that was warranted and going to get called? What do you call the 1000x more vicious hit to Cam that didn't get called? The one where Watt lowered his helmet and targeted Cam's neck/shoulder area? Point is, a minor accidental hit was used as grounds to eject a black player with a grievance against the NFL. A much, much, worse hit by a white player on a black qb was flat out ignored. No one cared. These points have nothing to do with the outcome of the game. They go to the credibility and character of the officials.

"No pass interference...great throw and catch...receiver gets the benefit of the doubt"

I agree it was a great throw and catch. Unfortunately, in order for AB to make the catch, he had to grab Jackson's arm, hold, and push off. That was enough for him to lose his footing, and for AB to make the catch. I've seen offensive PI called in much less convincing scenarios. It's not that the receiver gets the benefit of the doubt...the star player simply gets away with it because that's the easier thing to do if you're a ref. Doesn't make it right.

"Good officiating until it was a blowout"

This is why I asked if you actually watched the game. Did you happen to see when the ref just gave the guy like 2 extra yards to get the first down? It was. Not. Close. I've never seen something like that. In all my years of watching sports. And the ref was like running to hurry and get the ball placed in the wrong spot so they could hurry and get the ball snapped again. It was unbelievable. I've NEVER seen that. They showed the replay once, then never again.

That was another interesting tactic. They pretty much just stopped showing replays. They showed the targeting on cam once, then never again. The catch that wasn't a catch in the end zone...in a normal game, they would have stopped everything, reviewed it for five minutes, then made a call. All scoring plays are reviewed.

"Carolina had no answer, got outplayed, blah blah etc"

again, maybe they did. Maybe they lose the game anyway. That's not the point. The Steelers score was inflated by the refs, pure and simple. It would have been close in the fourth quarter. Remember when the Panthers came back 17 points in the fourth quarter in philly Cj? The games not over til it's over.
 
Did you happen to see when the ref just gave the guy like 2 extra yards to get the first down? It was. Not. Close. I've never seen something like that. In all my years of watching sports. And the ref was like running to hurry and get the ball placed in the wrong spot so they could hurry and get the ball snapped again. It was unbelievable. I've NEVER seen that. They showed the replay once, then never again.
i did not see this but would like to check it out. do you have a link? if not, when was it (quarter and time remaining)?

if it was such an egregiously bad spot - and two yards is absolutely huge - why did rivera not challenge it?

alasdair
 
I'll try to find it.

Because they knew it was a bogus spot and they hurried and got the ball snapped.
 
how long does it take, minimum, from spot to snap? even if a team hurries, gets set and snaps it's got to be at least 10 seconds right? again, if it was as egregious as you say it was, it takes 1 second to throw the challenge flag.

i get it - it sucks when your team gets thrashed and it's natural to look at officiating and the other team to place blame. i'm going to go ahead and agree with this guy:

"We just got whooped, man." (cam newton after the game)

alasdair
 
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how long does it take, minimum, from spot to snap? even if a team hurries, gets set and snaps it's got to be at least 10 seconds right? again, if it was as egregious as you say it was, it takes 1 second to throw the challenge flag.

i get it - it sucks when your team gets thrashed and it's natural to look at officiating and the other team to place blame. i'm going to go ahead and agree with this guy:

"We just got whooped, man." (cam newton after the game)

alasdair

look, I'm familiar with your arguing style by now. I've put a lot of effort into my posts and I'm quite serious about it. I'd appreciate it if you would attempt to do the same, or just not respond to me at all. Cam can't say anything negative in his press conferences because if he does he will be attacked relentlessly for it for weeks. Everyone's been telling him to mature as a leader. Part of that is accepting responsibility and trying to move your team forward. He can't dwell on bad calls in public. I'm not the leader of the Panthers, so it's fair game to me.

Rivera had an official beside him. Joe Buck said something to the effect of..."no challenge...no time..." so maybe you know more than them? Maybe coach didn't have a good view of it, and was wanting to save his timeouts to stop the clock when his offense got the ball back? Did you think about that? Just because it was obvious to the TV viewer doesn't necessarily mean it was obvious to someone on the sideline.
 
[video]https://i.imgur.com/wV7zuoG.mp4[/video]

yep. looks like a bad spot. surprised rivera didn't challenge it but, of course, there are other factors. that said, it's not just him. he has guys with banks of tvs, guys in the box, etc. who can tell him in seconds to challenge.

i was looking for that clip and came across this: Giants players rip officiating, NFL delivers official response

i guess sometimes it goes your way and sometimes it doesn't :)

alasdair
 
yep. looks like a bad spot. surprised rivera didn't challenge it but, of course, there are other factors. that said, it's not just him. he has guys with banks of tvs, guys in the box, etc. who can tell him in seconds to challenge.

i was looking for that clip and came across this: Giants players rip officiating, NFL delivers official response

i guess sometimes it goes your way and sometimes it doesn't :)

alasdair

im not seeing any video of whatever it is they are complaining about. Just a nyg fan talking. I did see where an official said that the spot was reviewed in New York and it was determined that it would not be overturned. That is nothing like what happened in the game yesterday. It simply was marked wrong and never reviewed at all.

can you find me where the play last night was reviewed in New York?

again, joe buck said there was no time to challenge. Again, maybe you know more? maybe he decided he needed the time outs on offense. We don't know what info he had in his ear. It's speculation.

Nice try, though
 
i'm sorry you feel i'm not putting effort into my posts. would you think i put in more effort if i agreed with you more? :)

aspects of sport try to be objective. a lot of it is subjective. i'm just offering my opinion.

alasdair
 
No, you aren't just giving your opinion. You are posting links as evidence of something (without vetting them very much, obviously). You asked for video of a specific incident (saying it would be egregious if it was true), I provided it, now you try to shift blame to Carolina for not challenging. Bringing up an incident from another game that you think will make me appear hypocritical, when in fact it doesn't. You pick and choose points you want to respond to, ignore others. Some might say throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Can't you just admit that there is a spectrum of quality when it comes to officiating in the NFL?

Unacceptable--below average--average--above average--Exceptional

the vast majority of games fall somewhere in the middle. These are games with mistakes that most everyone just accepts, because officials are human like the rest of us. But there ARE games that fall to both extremes. That's just how it is. I'm not a conspiracy theorist nor a sore loser for simply providing evidence that last nights game was a really bad night for them.
 
I wouldn't comment on a game I didn't watch. Yeah I watched all of it. Enjoyed seeing a little of Josh Dobbs at qb in the 4th. I do agree the spot thing was bad. But Carolina could have challenged it. We can argue catch no catch on that end zone play forever. The rules are so confusing I really don't know but imo and as a nuetral observer it was a catch. Granted if the call had gone against my team I can totally understand the frustration. They gotta get that shit worked out as a league pronto. Cause if there's any movement in his hands people understandably go nuts. Stars do get the benefit of the doubt with calls. It's like that in almost every sport and the NFL wants offense so it's even more slanted when it's receiver on db. Gronk fucking runs people over at the top of routes all the time with impunity.

I do agree that cam doesn't get the calls other QBs get. I don't know if it's a black qb thing or a mobile qb thing because Vick used to get murdered after throwing and never got a call. I didn't personally notice the hits on Cam but I have noticed he doesn't get the Brady treatment that's for sure. I don't know enough about the overall situation with Reid to intelligently comment but I did think an ejection was BS. There are issues with NFL reffing. Lots of interpretation from different crews. I'm pretty sure that the Thursday games get the D crew for whatever reason.

Overall I'll agree some decisive judgement calls went against your team but I don't think it was a conspiracy. From my POV your Oline got shit stomped and McCaffrey is too small to save Cam from getting killed when there is a guy coming untouched.
 
You pick and choose points you want to respond to, ignore others.
oh come on. you do that. everybody does that. it's not practical, nor mandatory, to respond to every point every poster makes.

Can't you just admit that there is a spectrum of quality when it comes to officiating in the NFL?
of course i can. there is. i strongly implied it when i wrote "the nfl catch rules are so convoluted and open to interpretation that these kinds of disagreements are guaranteed".

but i think they do a generally very good job and they try hard to get it right. and they do the massive bulk of the time. mileage varies.

i totally agree with cj when he says "...but I don't think it was a conspiracy".

alasdair
 
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