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THC oral use. We need to figure this out

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mike.vick

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The bioavailability for THc:
I.V. is ~100%
Smoking is ~18%
in a cookie orally is only ~6%

In a complex with hpb-cyclodextrin (basically capsule of sugars): Sublingual thc has a bioavailability of ~15%
And in ethanol sublingual bioavailability is ~1.5%

SO I THINK that if you complex hpbcd (avail. on ebay) with thc: you could have decent Leary-bisquits





"absolute bioavailability of THC after sublingual administration of solid THC/β-CD complex powder (16.0 ± 7.5%; mean ± SD; n = 4) is higher than the bioavailability of THC after oral administration of ethanolic THC solution (1.3 ± 1.4%; mean ± SD; n = 4)."
[the "complex" is just 40 degree celcius 4% hpb-cd solution and thc stirred for 2 hrs, and then centrifuged, top liquid disposed, and freeze-dried]
 
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What? Cannabis absorption is pretty well understood.. It's fat you want for bioavailability, not sugar.

Just infuse into coconut oil or butter.

And if I remember correctly, "Leary biscuits" are just about the worst kind of edible ever.
 
I don't own a centrifuge, do you? If so you could try it out, otherwise seems like pointless speculation.

Oral bioavailability for pure THC may be lower than smoking it, but once it's properly cooked into an appropriate oil with all the other compounds in weed, it should give you more bang for your buck orally. The same quantities of buds or hash get me higher for longer once they're in an oil. I use lecithin, too, which increases bioavailability.
 
The centrifugation is really unnecessary if you used a more concentrated solution of hp-Bcd. Considering they only used a 4% aqueous solution, and centrifuged to remove excess water. Hp-Bcd is sold in 99% powder form on ebay for $20.

Also, you can purchase a tabletop centrifuge for $100 on amazon.
So this is very accessible either way.

No speculation on increasing plasma thc levels is pointless, that sounds really unenlightened.

And your statement on the oral bioavailability is without reference, disingenuous, and contradicting to ALL science on THC bioavailability.
 
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mike.vick said:
The centrifugation is really unnecessary if you used a more concentrated solution of hp-Bcd. Considering they only used a 4% aqueous solution, and centrifuged to remove excess water. Hp-Bcd is sold in 99% powder form on ebay for $20.
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So what would be your method for trying this out? If it's doable on a reasonable budget I'd definitely do a few experiments myself.

And your statement on the oral bioavailability is without reference, disingenuous, and contradicting to ALL science on THC bioavailability.
Click to expand...

Care to elaborate? Bioavailability isn't a simple thing. You're talking about pure THC, which has pretty awful oral bioavalibility, but using an oil with a high saturated fat content increases bioavailability, lecithin increases bioavailability, freezing appears to increase bioavailability, etc. "ALL science" on making edibles and smoking weed is pretty sparse, man. It's not a well researched area because of decades of prohibition. There really isn't a scientific standard on these things the way there is for legal drugs and other chemicals.

Also if you actually want to have a real conversation, you might want to calm the fuck down. Maybe light up a bowl, dude. You seem wound pretty tight. I'm genuinely interested in the subject.
 
Yes, brother, this is finals week and I am very wound tight - and busy. I will get back to this discussion later today, perhaps.
 
I cannot imagine the effort and expense of this proposition will be justified by the increased potency of the final product. As mentioned above, soy lecithin is the key you are looking for. Unless this is an acedemic proposal. Two or three tenths a cc of hash oil with lecithin will nail even the most tolerant stoner to the floor. Simple.
 
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I had thought that THC levels in a cookie orally was ~ 50%
When we bake a cake and place all in there isn´t it true that everybody gets super high.
I have used cookies, so unless they had placed a massive amount of THC, the levels seemed to be okay..
 
plateau_connector said:
I cannot imagine the effort and expense of this proposition will be justified by the increased potency of the final product. As mentioned above, soy lecithin is the key you are looking for. Unless this is an acedemic proposal. Two or three tenths a cc of hash oil with lecithin will nail even the most tolerant stoner to the floor. Simple.
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maybe in an I.V... this isn't fucking rocket science dude, or an academic proposal... Its like baking a cake, except with the possibility of greater indications regarding oral THC use. (to the tune of a 3-fold increase in oral bioavailability)
 
Sounds great, let me know how it works out for you. Your first post mentions a centrifuge, 2 hr stir...I'm no genius. I only have a bachelors in Biology, and I've only been toying with plant chemistry in my free time for the past few years. I appreciate the kind education, ill be sure to give your words all the consideration they deserve. :) I was merely suggesting that lecithin will achieve similar if not identical results with a fraction of the trouble, because it seems to me you are a little testy already. Trouble will only make you more testy.
 
I think the best way to make clear where you're coming from is to explain how much weed/hash gets you high via smoking, and how much gets you approximately as high in an edible. If the quantities are that much different, with smoking producing much better results, I respectfully submit you are probably making edibles wrong. Many people do not use enough heat or time for fear of ruining the actives. The reality is, no cooked food item (with the exception of some candy) ever exceeds final temperatures of ~100 C/212 F, which is nowhere near the point THC or any other major compounds in cannabis get ruined. I approach edibles very scientifically and I've had a lot of success making reliable, never fail edibles.
 
Somebody needs to make some cannabis toffee.

I guess it's not something we can really do easily in our kitchen, but useful for a possible pharmaceutical cannabis pill.
 
DrGreenthumb-There are recipes for cannabis toffees, chocolates, and icings but you'll have to google them. I've never made one.
 
DrGreenthumb said:
Somebody needs to make some cannabis toffee.

I guess it's not something we can really do easily in our kitchen, but useful for a possible pharmaceutical cannabis pill.
Click to expand...

You think brownies get too hot for THC but you want to make toffee, which has an internal temp 100+ degrees higher?
 
Okay I just discovered the best weed recipe of all time
and i will put a bigger post about it but here it goes.

activated thc oil syringe
3:1 ratio of coconut oil:liquid-concentrated soy-lecithin extract (I used squeezed from pills - very effective for small batches)
Bicardi 151/ Ever-clear

+Squeeze thc oil into coconut oil -- Stir with toothpick/ paperclip ect. for 1 min. and let sit for 3 hours.

+Add concentrated liquid lecithin and stir for 1-2 min.

prepare a hot-water bath in pot/pan but turn off/ remove from burner.
+Add Bicardi/ Ever-clear to bowl of mixture and stir for 30sec.
+Carefully sit bowl in to hot-water bath Ethanol is extremely flammable and spontaneously combustible take ultimate precautions (ventilation ect.)

Stir, I personally hand centrifuge it wine-glass style and stir for about 30 min till all is evaporated.


Place in freezer for 30min then place in fridge overnight, or enjoy right away.
 
Doldrugs said:
You think brownies get too hot for THC but you want to make toffee, which has an internal temp 100+ degrees higher?
Click to expand...

You're doing your toffee wrong. Fudge is boiled to 118c, toffee somewhere around 130-140c depending on how hard you want it, it only has to reach that temperature for a second & then it's removed from the heat, a thermometer is used. If there was cannabis in it then I'd make soft toffee or fudge, fudge would probably be better. It's not in the oven for ages, takes less than 10 minutes. My oven wont even go below 160c (same temp that works well with my vaporizer).
 
mike.vick said:
maybe in an I.V... this isn't fucking rocket science dude, or an academic proposal... Its like baking a cake, except with the possibility of greater indications regarding oral THC use. (to the tune of a 3-fold increase in oral bioavailability)
Click to expand...

keep in mind there are other benefits of oral consumption over smoking, one being the speed at which it will reach the receptors along with how long it will last, oral consumption on my experience does not get one as high but it last hours longer with the same strains, granted my oral experiences is limited to equal ratio CBD to THC strains, but I can concer with what others have said about bio-availability increase with lecithin, unsaturated fats, but then again much more is known since the 90's when I was studying this.

but it stands to reason that since the cannabinoid receptors of the brain help regulate the digestive system along with nervous system and immune system, a healthy diet would be beneficial to potentiate the overall effects or at the least insure there are no nutrient deficiencies in the body that could take away from the potential.
 
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