Text messages and law enforcement

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BeenBeaningDFW

Bluelighter
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Jul 13, 2009
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I know somebody in my family who got snitched on (I'm not quite sure what, but I believe its for drugs and several other things I won't mention) and got hauled off to jail. its sad and depressing, but its too late now. Shes got a lawyer and all that good stuff, and she said it would be over 90 years. I hate this drug war. She really is an amazing person too :(

Me and her have sent some pretty self incriminating texts to eachother in the past. Could investigators get ahold of her text message records and read her ingoing and outgoing text messages? The lawyer says that they can't read what the text contains, but they can see the time and the recipient so I'm going to believe that.

What should I do? Should I lay low for a while? Should I make sure anything illegal is out of my house? Would they call me to testify in the case? I love her (in a family way, mind you) and I'm just really worried and paranoid--hearing shit and thinking cops are coming for me. I really got a wakeup call from this though.
 
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First of all, if the lawyer is actually saying that, then the lawyer is complete dog shit. Any text messages you send are basically fucking public records. LE can easily find out what any text messages you ever sent in your life said, not only when you sent them.

1) Get everything illegal out of your house. E.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g.
2) Wipe your hard drives. Police will seize your computers and make you look like complete dog shit in court for any lapse of judgement you've ever thought about having.
 
in australia the AFP (australian federal police) intercepted a bunch of texts talking about bomings and terroism ect ... it turned out to be a bunch of politics students at uni talking about the essays that they had to do, if they can moniter texts for terrorism then they can do it for drugs ect.
 
Transcendence said:
First of all, if the lawyer is actually saying that, then the lawyer is complete dog shit. Any text messages you send are basically fucking public records. LE can easily find out what any text messages you ever sent in your life said, not only when you sent them.

1) Get everything illegal out of your house. E.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g.
2) Wipe your hard drives. Police will seize your computers and make you look like complete dog shit in court for any lapse of judgement you've ever thought about having.
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Public record? Source?

In my town most of the dealers I associate with communicate with you via text message. One night I was trying to get a half an ounce of my one guy, and he was arrested that same exact night. I ran a huge tab on this man, over the months I knew him. I was never checked out by the police, and that was months ago.
 
Yeah I wanna know a source. I mean, a lawyer is a pretty reliable source for info like this right? This family member of mine was on the front page of the local newspaper and stuff. And they say they are investigating for more "victims".
 
Text messaging is probably the most foolish way for people conspiring to commit crimes to communicate.

In the USA at least, communications companies that provide text messaging services are required to keep records of the texts for (I believe) at least three years, and LE can easily subpoena the records and use their contents quite handily in a court of law.
 
Any lawyer worth a damn would move to quash such a subpoena, given that it would be nearly impossible to determine who sent the messages. If the state had already obtained the texts, a motion to suppress (on the same grounds) would achieve the same goal.

Text messages are useful for law enforcement to aid in their investigation, but don't do so well in proving their case.
 
Extacly what he said! U people obviously dont know shit about how the law works.... tex messaging is the way too go... You cannot prove who wrote the text ever! Its different from Wiretaps that they can prove thats your voice! But tex is totally different, 20/20 had a special and the DEA was saying Tex messaging is the new way to communicate and there is no way to prove (in court) who is doing what cuz most drug dealers have pre-paid phones in false names etc. But am sure they will make up a law too fix the problem, like they did for RICO law! to get the mafia
 
Well then if y'all think it's perfectly safe, feel free to text message your business with imputiny--go right ahead, but I personally feel it's asking for trouble because there are much stealthier ways to communicate the details of any enterprise you might be engaged in. :D

And while it may not be provable that the suspect himself was the author of text messages, a phone registered in his name combined with other circumstantial evidence could very well turn the tide in the mind of a jury, in my not-legally-trained opinion... :)
 
It's definitely not safe to say incriminating things through a text message. Many many courts have used electronic discovery features to the subpoena telecommunications companies with a demand to hand over their text message records. That's all civil talk though, not criminal.

I know the 9th circuit has upheld the requirement of probable cause to search through a cell phone but it looks like the police already have that here. Oh yeah, and that case in the 9th circuit was considered a victory because it upheld your '4th amendment rights' to emails and text messages. So yeah, chances are they don't even need probable cause to look through her phone.

I'm basically just reiterating a lot of people on here but I agree STOP INCRIMINATING YOURSELF THROUGH TEXT MESSAGES.

Oh yeah, and I'd recommend seeing at least a couple lawyers, not just rely on one's advice. Good luck.
 
Ah who puts a pre-paid phone in there own name? now thats stupid.... Of course i would recommend have tex codes as well as be very short and brief with them as well, and never register the phone in ur name, and when of course u go to make a buy or a sale, u never bring that phone with you...
 
^That is very true. I'm sure all the jurors use text messages too, so they know whatsup.

But if a text message is all a person has to go on (and maybe, someone cracks and tells the cops), you'd still be reasonably safe right? Granted you have a good lawyer. My family member who is in trouble says the lawyer and her phone carrier says it only shows the date and recipient of the text and not the content of the text. Freakin dumb thing is, is that some dumb kid told the investigators everything they wanted to hear because they were threatening him about all this crap.
 
there are much stealthier ways to communicate
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We're talking about drug dealers here. The fact that they can even compose a text message is a feat in and of itself. While more secure methods are available, I'm afraid the learning curve is just too high for about 80% of them.

It's definitely not safe to say incriminating things through a text message.
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It's not safe to say incriminating things at all, through any medium. Text messages are inherently safer, because it's nearly impossible to prove who wrote it.

That said, law enforcement routinely use text messages to aid in their investigations. They will use them to discover meeting locations and times, to identify people involved in a conspiracy and to discover people who are likely to flip.

If someone would like to suggest a safer technology that could be easily deployed and that any idiot can use, I'm open to listen.
 
^You aren't going to get charged with a crime just because you were discussing drugs over a text message. Incriminating text messages can be useful to sway a jury, but LE needs to find actual illegal substances in order to bring you to court.

So while it is probably very unlikely anything will come of this, the safe thing to do is to assume you WILL be raided and dispose of any drugs/other illegal items you may have in your possession. Your future is nothing to gamble with.
 
very true^^^

i wouldn't worry about it too much, but its definitely better safe than (very) sorry. I would get rid of anything illegal in your house. A text message seems like a very loose piece of evidence though, since it just shows the phone it came from, it cant possible show who wrote it.
 
Any lawyer worth a damn would move to quash such a subpoena, given that it would be nearly impossible to determine who sent the messages. If the state had already obtained the texts, a motion to suppress (on the same grounds) would achieve the same goal.

Text messages are useful for law enforcement to aid in their investigation, but don't do so well in proving their case.
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No disrespect, but this is total bullshit unless you buy a prepaid SIM card under an assumed name and communicate with someone who has done the same. Law enforcement barely has to do an official subpeona. I don't care what anyone's lawyer says, my lawyers are better than theirs probably, and I know this for a fact. Service providers in the United States can tell you exactly who sent the text message and who received it - all the police have to do is basically call and ask and send in some paperwork if you are tied to an investigation. If you've paid some top-tier lawyer a lot of money who might be able to squeeze you through some obscene reasonable doubt argument about how someone else had the other guy's phone and your phone was stolen, etc., etc., etc., the judge might throw it out over some fancy constitutional bullshit - but it's not likely.

If you call AT&T, Verizon, etc, and ask the people whether or not they can read your text messages, they are telling the truth if they say "no." But that information exists, and it can be acquired. Nobody is going to believe it isn't you and the other party sending text messages if there is a ton of good stuff in there and you never reported your phone stolen. It would take a really, really decent lawyer to get it thrown out if you find yourself charged with anything serious... i.e. a lawyer Michael Jackson would have hired. But seriously, forget about this "texting is safe" bullshit. It is bullshit, and if someone's lawyer hasn't told them that already then they are either a.) ignorant of how things work between LE and phone companies, or b.) knowingly trying to squeeze you out of extra cash when it turns out they are "wrong" (whoopsy daisy, client!).

I'm not backing this up with anything on this site, but honestly. Really. Listen to the words that are coming out of this post.
 
Hushmail with TrueCrypt file attachment = impossible-to-crack method of sending pics of your family fishing trip... ;)
 
captainballs said:
No disrespect, but this is total bullshit unless you buy a prepaid SIM card under an assumed name and communicate with someone who has done the same. Law enforcement barely has to do an official subpeona. I don't care what anyone's lawyer says, my lawyers are better than theirs probably, and I know this for a fact. Service providers in the United States can tell you exactly who sent the text message and who received it - all the police have to do is basically call and ask and send in some paperwork if you are tied to an investigation. If you've paid some top-tier lawyer a lot of money who might be able to squeeze you through some obscene reasonable doubt argument about how someone else had the other guy's phone and your phone was stolen, etc., etc., etc., the judge might throw it out over some fancy constitutional bullshit - but it's not likely.

If you call AT&T, Verizon, etc, and ask the people whether or not they can read your text messages, they are telling the truth if they say "no." But that information exists, and it can be acquired. Nobody is going to believe it isn't you and the other party sending text messages if there is a ton of good stuff in there and you never reported your phone stolen. It would take a really, really decent lawyer to get it thrown out if you find yourself charged with anything serious... i.e. a lawyer Michael Jackson would have hired. But seriously, forget about this "texting is safe" bullshit. It is bullshit, and if someone's lawyer hasn't told them that already then they are either a.) ignorant of how things work between LE and phone companies, or b.) knowingly trying to squeeze you out of extra cash when it turns out they are "wrong" (whoopsy daisy, client!).

I'm not backing this up with anything on this site, but honestly. Really. Listen to the words that are coming out of this post.
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You are correct in your statement that law enforcement can obtain text messages without a warrant via an administrative subpoena. However, there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in text messages, so without a search warrant the texts will be inadmissible.

This isn't about high priced lawyers, it's about the law.
 
email, such as hush is watched by the feds. It is regulated by them and a person using it has to agree with the policy terms. Which most of you all probably know. And people that do not use software such as truecrypt are more at risk.As far as texting goes, it is stupid to ever text any kind of illegal activity. For all text messages are saved in computer data bases. Uneducated people do not even realize that they are incriminating theirself(ves). Yeah, they do need a warrant but still yet it is very irresponsible to leave bread crumbs for LE to follow ya.
 
Text msgs are transmitted by SMS.

Why not use code in txt msgs?
Or code in conversation (a simple but straight one)
Or use GPG with gmail or simplite with msn/aim?

Hushmail is safer than phone as you need a Canadian court order to read it. However, using GPG with gmail is better. I have heard no complaints of neomailbox.

The big drug dealers they buy a boost mobile for the right hand, and a boost mobile for the boss. If the boss knows the number and the right hand knows the number, then how are they supposed to know which number they are supposed to tap?

I guess use common sense.
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