So I've done some experimentation after posting. I have been able to take Naltrexone next day as well as same day as kratom with no ill effects. Seems a useful tool in preventing dependence and tolerance.
Regardless, that's a bad idea.
Yeah exactly. I don't have any kratom dependence and won't as long as I keep taking Naltrexone regularly. Physical dependence takes time to develop and I'm breaking the potential build up of physical dependence with naltrexone every couple of days.
Right, but the thing is, Naltrexone lasts in your system for 5 days and so it will greatly affect your kratom high and make you get MUCH less high.
So far I've found that if I take only a quarter pill like twice a week and wait 24 hours to take kratom I'm in good shape. I'll do that unless I want to drink, in which case I take the naltrexone as intended and just accept I can't do kratom for a couple days. So far this arrangement is beneficial to me as it a) moderates my kratom use and frequency b) moderates my alcohol as intended c) prevents kratom dependence. What you're doing also makes sense to me, more of an all or nothing deal.
Hmmm, well that is quite interesting. I had actually been thinking, but hadn't said, that maybe it would be possible if you took a much lower dose. And actually, you might not know that a lot is being done with low dose and ultra low dose naltrexone for all kinds of positive uses.
So these days I'm actually going the LDN route. I take like 1-2 mg before bed and take kratom daily. When I do go out drinking, which is rare, I'll take 25mg of naltrexone and be unable to feel kratom for 2-3 days. This has not precipitated withdrawal thusfar, which leads me to believe the LDN is doing its job. Having noticed any enhanced effects from kratom (maybe dose of Nal is too high) but also no tolerance seemingly. Pretty good system. I just mix 50ml distilled water with 25mg naltrexone pill in a brown tinted glass jar, then use a liquid syringe to administer. 2ml == 1mg Nal. I'd do 50mg instead of 25 but I don't use it fast enough and end up wasting it.
Yeah I had the same thing happen the first time I took Nal. Pure hell
Says a lot to the folks who deny Kratom as an opioid
I find the folks denying that kratom is an opioid do not have any pharmacology or neurochemistry knowledge. They undoubtedly will say this every time: “it just hits the opiate receptors” showing that they don’t know much at all. For one we don’t have opiate receptors we have opioid receptors. Those folks aren’t really even knowledgeable in what a receptor is. But ignorance is bliss when trying to defend and justify abusing a psychoactive compound
It's kind of the opposite end of people saying opioids were satanic and evil and denying their legitimate use (for pain). Or those telling anything from plant origin was safe but stuff touched/manufactured by man the evil (like my gf does a bit, sigh).
Yes. In my fb Kratom group yesterday I had a guy denying Kratom as an opioid because “it doesn’t hit opiate receptors, its alkaloid receptors”. From this we can be sure he doesn’t know what a receptor is. Most the folks in that community don’t buy they sure like to say it
I don't fully understand what you are saying here, but all I know is that FOR ME, if I stop Naltrexone for 5 full days (and actually I've done only 3) then Kratom works fine, and I am just fine to get back on naltrexone if i go about 5 days without Kratom first, but otherwise, if kratom is still in the system it can most definitely cause precipitated WD.
While I very much understand the mechanism of actions you are referring to, your point here is hard to understand? Naltrexone/naloxone absolutely causes precipitated WD in kratom and opioid users.
link.springer.com
You (at least in my experience) don't need it to be completely out of your system, you just have to not be physically dependent. I have taken kratom for 5 days in a row, then Nal on the 5th day, and been fine. Disclaimer: I do not take large amounts of kratom, maybe 5gpd max. The first take I took Nal I had been taking kratom daily for a year and immediately entered the 7th circle of hell so there's no question that it prrcipiates withdrawal if you're dependent.
It's been a couple of years so I don't remember every detail but it was a very cold, depressive lonely feeling and I cried for no real reason, just cause it felt so utterly alone. No physical reactiosn like diarrhea as I wasn't dependent on opioids but the mental effects were very distinct. I think I had a restless feeling like during the withdrawal of opioids, but the rest was quite different. I really don't know what was happening but the substance was right out of a blister, so I think it was indeed naloxone (w/tilidine) and the short duration also fits.
Yeah, memantine works to kick opioids. I used it to get off morphine and the process was easier than expected.
The NMDA antagonist memantine attenuates the expression of opioid physical dependence in humans - Psychopharmacology
Rationale: Preclinical observations suggest that NMDA receptor-mediated glutamatergic neurotransmission is involved in the expression and maintenance of opioid dependence. Objective: The present study evaluated whether memantine, the clinically available non-competitive NMDA receptor antagonist...