SWAT Team busts Utah rave; excessive force alleged (Merged)

[JBizzle]

Does anyone know what else has happened involving the bust? Where are they at with lawsuits, etc....????

 

[xXTOKERXx]

A 17 year old female from West Jordan, found by officers, had overdosed on ecstasy. She was treated and released to her parents.

Hmms, perhaps overdosed because she was so scared she was gonna get caught she took the lot? and overdosed in the true meaning of the word? i doubt it, i recon she was just mashed!

 

[CreativeRandom]

Wow. Speculation. How all great conclusions in life come from. Can you please provide any support for your claim?

I don't mean to bash X or anything, but that is her fault for taking the drug. You can't blame the officers for busting on her.

How odd would it be if are drug raid was about to occur, but the homeowner said "What! I'm on illicit drugs which may harm me if I am overexcited!"

Sorry sir, we'll come back later...

 

[h@ndo]

CreativeRandom

^^^ A PERFECT example of the type of Americans that the everyone loves to HATE.

Your comments are laughable mate.

ILLEGAL IT WAS ILLEGAL !!!!!! ARRRRGH LISTEN TO ME I SAID ILLEGAL.

 

[dabb]

Mix Meth + Weapons, or someone all schitzed out, and it's like throwing gasoline on a fire.

The use of meth in rave/club context is vastly different to use of meth in the hardcore tweaker context, i have never seen violence at a rave, the idea the cops would need a SWAT team with assault rifles to shut down a rave is ridiculous. I mean did they really think the E dealers would be carrying guns and were likely to pull them out and start shooting if normal cops had shown up, shut down the party and attempted to arrest and search a few people? The only weapon found belonged to the landowners son not a raver which proves the point everyone here was trying to make.

 

[johnnyb420]

creative i wonder if you would feel the same about the need for force when you get rolled up by the fuzz while you are copping dope and the police run you and come back with felonies on your record and initiate a felony stop procedure on your ass have you ever seen a felony stop procedure ?should they assume you are armed and dangerous because you have a record?i would say yes but do they have to stomp your head in the ground and gas you because of the possible risk ?not in my version of america

lets be honest about this situation if the police in question were really interested in preserving public safety and what not they would have put a stop to this rave when they heard about it


also is everyone missing the biggest problem with this situation the united states military were used in a violent manner to quell a nonviolent event or gathering that does not fit into my vision of america either do the ruling powers have the right to use military force on its own people?


i agree with you that the law is the law if you break it you have consequencees but unjest lawenforcement needs to be pointed out before it becomes the norm i also agree with you that the draconian drug laws need seriuos review but the only way to spark change is to get the word out let people know what is being done in there names

 

[CreativeRandom]

h@ndo, I do not see any substance in your comment. I was remarking on the facts, and speculation and emotion are worth nothing on matters that involve facts and government. Whether you like it or not, the Utah government had the complete rights to do this, despite if it was porrly executed or done in a piss poor fashion.

The anti-drug laws that exist today were all created by democrats, by the way. Marijuana was illegalized by Roosevelt (the worst president ever, and I fully believe this man was not just an idiot but actually pychotic) in 1937. Roosevelt also played a key part in the drug conferences in the early 1900s, and was a big player in the Harrison Narcotics Act of 1914 which heavily restricted opiates and cocaine. Heroin was not illegalized until 1956 by another democrat. I could not find when cocaine was illegalized, but it was internationally illegalized in 1961 by another democrat.

All drug illegalization laws on a federal level are unconstitutional, infriging on the 10th amendment. Social security and welfare also are in the same sense, but thats off topic a bit. What I am saying is that it is completely in the powers of Utah to have the death penalty for looking at marijuana if the people decide that democratically; the federal government has no right to set mandates on state rights.

You cannot blame the police forces for carrying out orders, and carrying out the will of the people (though the drug laws are skewed on that one, as mentioned above). We must protest this to our politicians. Can't expect to cut drug supply by only taking out the users, right.

I believe this could have been done in a better manner. I do not think any special tactics were involved in randomly arresting people, so SWAT was not necessary in terms of seiging the rave. I think policemen were all that was needed with their pistols to securely evacuate everyone and ensure their safety.

I believe politics (in a negative connotation) is to blame here. The politicians look good for "protecting" the people. The cops look good for making arrests, adding to their resume and catching the eyes of those who issue promotions. Prosecuting attorneys also get credit, the more convictions they make, the more money they make, the better chance for promotion, and to start a career (many prosecutors become judges and politicians).

Perhaps to make those oh-so-needed busts, the cops could have used dogs, and had specific leave points and just checked suspicious individuals.... individually.

Sometimes you need a little grease to run the wheels. Cops need to be ambitious to make efforts to take down murderers and rapists. Police chiefs need to make sure they crack down and catch more offenders. However, the same reasons that spark these fires also created this horribly executed and draconian raid on a simple issue.

I will look into the matter myself on whether the police were informed of the raid or not, and why they chose to raid as they did instead of preventing a rave in the first place.

 

[CreativeRandom]

I just checked my mail and had already gotten a reply from the Utah County Police Department. It reads as follows...

I appreciate you taking the time to inquire about the Rave party on August 20,2005 and your support of the Sheriff's Office. Utah County has been notified that litigation is forthcoming. Under legal advise from the County Attorney's Office, Utah County will not be making any statements at this time. I hope I will be able to answer your questions at a later time when litigation has concluded.

Unfortunately, court cases take a long time and I can't imagine that all 60 arrests will be settled any time soon. I have replied to the email asking if the author could give a more personal, and less proffesional, insight into the matter.

Here are my questions, by the way.

1. When did you learn about the rave? Why didn't the police instruct the organizer that he did not have a permit from your county before the rave?

2. Was Utah County aware of the rave before it happened?


3. Can you give any information as to why police conducted the raid in the
manner it did, as opposed to other methods?

 

[johnnyb420]

also is everyone missing the biggest problem with this situation the united states military were used in a violent manner to quell a nonviolent event or gathering that does not fit into my vision of america either do the ruling powers have the right to use military force on its own people?

no response?

 

[CreativeRandom]

I already remarked how I think a safer and less aggresive approach would have been better, and that this is perhaps the result of the Game of Politics.

But I don't think they intentionally meant to be violent (scary, yes) and tehy were in full rights to use "military force" on an event where drug use is beyond a reasonable doubt.

If you complain about how this was conducted, than complain about every raid that ever happens too. Got to have some consistency.

 

[johnnyb420]

I already remarked how I think a safer and less aggresive approach would have been better, and that this is perhaps the result of the Game of Politics.

But I don't think they intentionally meant to be violent (scary, yes) and tehy were in full rights to use "military force" on an event where drug use is beyond a reasonable doubt.

If you complain about how this was conducted, than complain about every raid that ever happens too. Got to have some consistency.


I will look into the matter myself on whether the police were informed of the raid or not, and why they chose to raid as they did instead of preventing a rave in the first place.

you already conceded that a safer less aggressive approach would have been better?well thats the whole point is to stand up and say this was not proper and i will not go silent until we educate people about things being done in there name

you say you don't think they intentionally meant to be violent ?i would say that by bringing the swat team and the national guard they fully expected to use force and it is that unnecessary force and violence that was uncalled for and against the constitution


i do complain about the way it was conducted as well as complain about the way a lot of raids are conducted. to say that i have to complain about every raid would is wrong all i am asking for is critical thinking in the matter i fully believe that the police need to use force and the swat team in some circumstances i just don't think that this qualifies as one of those times

i gave an example of how this subject has a direct bearing on you personally if you wont stand for others dont expect them to stand for you8)

you will look into the matter yourself?it is not up for discussion if they knew about the rave that fact is allready a point of record . of couse they knew about it or they would not have been there in the first place8(

 

[SheeshKeebab]

They were in full rights to use "military force" on an event where drug use is beyond a reasonable doubt.

^^ Why?
Have you been to many [any] raves?
How much violence have you seen at such events?

Ever been to a music festival? I hear folks take loadsa drugs at these events but I've never hear of such heavy handed tactics.

Shit ... thought I had given up this discussion

 

[CreativeRandom]

I am inquiring to the police department if they knew only the day of the rave, or well in advance; enough time to reasonably warn the organizer to back off from the rave or that he did not have the correct permit. The county could have even refused to give a permit.

I don't see how complaining about the force used would accomplish much. I would rather strike at the center, and get these drugs legalized or perhaps a provision saying force will not be authorized on large groups, even if drugs are suspected of being present.

It is standard procedure for all police departments to employ SWAT when drugs are suspected to be involved.

It seems we have similiar goals but different ideas on how to accomplish them.

 

[johnnyb420]

^^^i am speaking about the use of the millitary i believe that it is unconstitutional to use the military in this fashion, and for good reason think kent state!!!! was that ok with you what happened there?it is quite possible that in the interest of homeland security that bush has repealed that part of the constitution8) give me a fucking break if any body thinks that this was done in the interest of public safety they are truely deluded

 

[CreativeRandom]

That's a good point. Military cannot be used by states.

However, does national guard count? I believe they are recognized as a militia. Which is obviously not true, but its quite the loop hole.

Also, I believe there is a provision allowing military forces to be used. I wish I could remember it, I'm sure someone here knows what I'm talking about, I'll look it up.

Basically, it means that the state or mayor can use military forces to aid in certain situations.

Yes, I know that is broad, but there are specifics I am leaving out due to forgetfulness. But, here is an example. A club in D.C. called Nations was raided by the Marines along with police forces, and it was allowed under this provision.

Sorry for the uncertainty. I will look it up.

I don't think Bush has anything to do with this event...

Was this done in the interest of public safety?

I think a better question to ask is "Does the public believe this was done for their safety, and does the police force believe they were ensuring public safety in this act?"

Ignorance is terrible...

 

[yepyepwoah]

wow, i wasn't even aware of this news since i don't usually look in this forum

>>"police would have to be completely stupid to think there would not be any guns or drugs here."
this relates back to a small thread i started in DC about how the drug community hurts itself. drugs + guns and violence should not be associated with each other, but sadly they are and the following force was used at this rave regardless of whether or not it was necessary. until the image of the drug world gets cleaned up, law enforcement and the general public will have this drugs+violence view and wherever drugs are involved they will come in with guns drawn

something i don't understand is why they keep targeting 'raves'. there is drug use at other types of concerts and parties.
i guess this type of struggle between opposing forces has been going on all the time, like jazz back in the day...the drugs, "hedonism", corruption of the youth. cycles...

to me it's not so much drugs and guns go together it's black market and having to protect your interst is all. when you are dealin with cash money and easily liquidated assets you gotta know someone is gonna wanna come after your shit, especially if it's black market and can't really be reported to the police. YOu gotta look out for yourself so of course it's time to get a gun.

 

[yepyepwoah]

Okay. Wow, you guys are thickheaded on one issue. This rave was illegal. This rave was illegal. This rave was ILLEGAL. Do you not understand this? The man who organized this event did not obtain *any* mass gathering permits from Utah county. He did get a mass gathering permit from the state, but he did not seek the approval of the county he was in.

SOURCE: SALT LAKE TRIBUNE.

The article is even posted in this thread, I believe page two or three. I even bought the god damn newspaper with the article!!! So quit saying it was legal, because it was not. So next time when you argue something, make sure you have the facts first. Saying this rave was legal is a lie, is misinformation, and completely false.

I do not think this rave is illegal, I *know* it is illegal. The Utah County Police Department also regarded and commented the illegality of the rave as well as politicians of Utah County. Of course, those who create the laws as well as those who enforce it can't be trusted on that right? So that is why I posted the article.

funkyboyfloyd, you do not know me at all, you do not know my life, so don't try to claim you do kid. I have shed much insight on my life on this website, but obviously you haven't even been here long enough to see that. For your information, I use. I am far from a cop, it is hilarious you people are comparing me to one! I can't stand them personally, and I think it takes a certain and specific kind of person to become a cop.

I post in the media section to post my unbiased comments and acknowledge fact in the face of those who are biased. Yes, drugs should be legal. Yes, we should be able to rave 24/7 if we wish to. Yes, cops suck. Yes, if we are not bothering anyone with our drug usage in a fucking deserted valley with some music, friends, and drugs, we should be able to without big brother breathing down our neck. Unfortunately, that is not how the America is today, and we must play by the rules if we want to make a change in that direction. You must abandon emotion in this kind of case and look at the facts.

My heart goes out to those who were busted and mistreated in the rave. However, by the book, there was nothing wrong with the police conduct, and everything wrong with the rave. It is up to us to make a change to make sure we can do this without this kind of shit happening, but we have to do it by the book.

It is okay for pigs to treat "peeps" like this because it is their job. Ever heard of guilt by association? When a drug or weapon is found, everyone in the vicinity is treated as a potential threat and suspect. It is also for their own protection. Out of the thousands there, who knows who has a gun and to secondguess because you don't want someone to scrape their elbow may result in serious injury or death. Is that chance small? Yea. But are you willing to bet your life that no one in that huge crowd had a gun and may want to attack the cops out of fear, mental instability, or anger?

You know what, sorry about the murderers. But they were only two potential nutcases. The rave was filled with a *potential* thousands of nutcases. In the case of two people, they are alot easier to secure and put into custody.

Wow. Making this event as an excuse to blow on Bush. That is a low blow. You are using complete emotion and insubstantial guesswork to turn this into something against Bush. Please, if you are going to bash anyone, especially the President of America, make your bashes based on fact. You wouldn't do that to a stranger would you? You wouldn't attack someone, verbal or otherwise, without having concrete evidence, would you? I'm afraid of the answer...

Actually, I believe the majority of those against Bush are anti-American. Why? For example, many say "Get the fuck out of Iraq!". Many say "We should desert Israel". Many say "9/11, Breslan, Madrid, New York, London are not reason enough for attacking the terrorists". Well, I wonder what bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, Al-Jezer, and Hamas would say. But that is off tangent.

DarthMom, I do not want to live in a world where police are violent. I, however, have the "power" of empathy. I understand the police have a tough job; they are constantly putting their life on the line for the security of the community, for the safety of Joe Citizen, and are simply following orders from representatives of the community. But besides that, there are often cases of police brutality. I have been victim of such myself. I do wish the police were perfect and were not so overzealous and aggresive in cases where it is completely unnecessary. But hey, what can you do? We can complain, which does make some difference, but like crime, it will always exist.

Perhaps their claim about injuries was in regard to what they perceived as major injuries. No one had any injuries they wouldn't heal from in a month. However that is probably the result of pressure from media.

So one person was found with a gun. Whoop right? Well, sorry to tell you this, but the police are not psychic. They did not know that. The police had no clue how many nutcases, guns, or violent drunks were at the rave. And probably, as a result of the Drug Misinformation Campaign in America, they believed that everyone at the rave was under the influence of the Deadly Ecstasy, which makes you attack those you don't like with superhuman force.

My point being in the last paragraph, besides the sad truth of how terrible the current drug policy is in America, is that they could not be sure. Better to be safe than sorry. If they had assumed everyone their was nice and unarmed, and had came into the rave, wha twould happen if they were wrong and some psychotic lunatic attacked? Even you cannot deny that at least one lunatic showed up. There are lunatics everywhere.

OR, they could assume everyone was dangerous. That way when someone attacks, they were prepared and safe. Better to scrape some elbows than lose a life right? It is a matter of pespective. It is similiar to Iraq. If they DID have WMDs, and we chose to ignore it, and they chose to attack America, we wouldve lost millions in lives and billions in damage. If they didn't have WMDs and we go in, we lose a couple thousand lives and a few billion dollars, but we gain an ally, we free a country under a terrible dictator, and we eliminate some terrorists. No one can deny that Iraq is a better place now, and there is nothing wrong with freeing a country from tyranny. That was a little off tangent, but a good example.

I was not aware there was security. It is just sad that the organizer tried so hard to make this work and was just forgetful enough to not get the right mass gathering pass from the county. You are again misguided Darthmom, as I have posted many times on this thread, this rave was *ILLEGAL*.

SheeshKeebab.... well, yes I would think so. A scraped knee or a bruised arm is nothing to raise Kaine about. A broken arm or some deep cut, that would be pretty serious and excessive force if you were not resisting arrest.

Also, SheeshKeebab, I have no doubt that this event was made as a showcase, a threat and warning for future events. I completely agree with you here, the mass gathering permit violation was a front for the police to barge in and bust everyone on drug charges. It is like getting pulled over and then the cop having dogs sniff your car, and then busted for drugs. If the organizer had the correct mass gathering permits, this would not have happened.

Personally, I think the ravers should be pissed at the organizer for fucking up this bad! Sixty people arrested and fucked in the ass by the cops simply because he did not get a permit from the county. They should literally hang his ass for being so incompetant!!!

skiforlife, can you please provide sources or proof of your statement about how our country is run by such characters? Please back your claims with fact before making such outlandish claims. And regardless, they are an extreme minority compared to the legitamate characters running the country.

I don't believe anyone got the shit beat out of them by batons in this raid. Again, please provide a reliable source or proof of this before making such an outlandish claim.

Again, legality did not "take a back seat". This rave was clearly illegal, and no one in the right mind would have a reasonable doubt drugs would be present at this rave. This was no event where "religiously influenced" will was pushed on others. Perhaps the laws which were created in regards to the illegality of the rave and the drugs found there were religiously influenced, but not this episode. The police only carried out their jobs.

CONCLUSION: This rave was completely illegal, and I have sourced this fact. You can also take a look at the Utah County Code, which is probably available online. I completely agree that the police used this simple violation as a front to make multiple drug busts and showcase that illegal raves with drugs will not be tolerated.

I believe that this raid was actually a case of extreme unbrutality because no one was hospitalized in this event. If you even scream "Bomb" in a crowded area with thousands of people, there will most likely be at least one hospitalization. Fuck, there was a Beatles concert where people died just from the quick moving crowd! The police were looking out for their own safety first as they conducted the raid, and a few elbows were scraped. Better that then being caught off guard and shot though.

The current Drug Policy in America is draconian and extremely misleading. I have no doubt this contributed to some of the scraped elbows of this event. We should take this event as an example of why we must legally protest our current drug standards, and lobby for a complete reform.

all I gotta say is 'just becuase it's your job doesn't make it right"

you are a fucking nerd. they didn't need to raid the rave to shut it down. just show up and let their presence be known, say it is shut down and make people leave. like dude said before it was a showcase and a warning for anyone who wants to throw a party in the future.

as far as your comment about the police showing they will not tolerate drugs and will show up everyplace drugs are that is complete BULLSHIT. there is massive drug use at ANY club or concert and I don't see any of those being raided by the police. When was the last time a dave matthews band concert was raided by police? phish? any random nightclub? it's just a continuance of the attack on the rave scene that has been goin on for the past 6 years or so.

 

[CreativeRandom]

You know, I would agree with your first statement. However, good and evil, right and wrong, are subjective and arbitrary terms. "Good is what you like and evil is what you don't like". These people thought they were doing right. Not much we can do about that.

I'm a fucking nerd? Okay, like that is the topic of the thread? That is what makes this raid wrong? Me being a nerd? Wow, make some more personal insights into my life, and then drugs will be legalized! Good point there chief. I think it will go a long way into changing policy.

I agree with the jist of your first comment though. Read what I say. POLITICS WERE INVOLVED. However, the ravw was illegal, and there was nothing ILLEGAL on the part of the police force, regardless of how asinine they were.

Actually, many concerts, raves, clubs, and parties are raided. That last comment you made shows your complete ignorance. Just keep your mouth when you don't know what your talking about and just speaking with anger. Look up the facts first.

The most popular club in D.C. , Nations, was raided by military and the police under the clause I described above (looking into it).

Actually, I specifically know someone in prison right now because he was busted at a Phish concert. It is very ironic and funny that you mentioned of all bands, Phish. He was selling cigarettes in a New York Phish concert, and was busted by undercover cops. So were his two buddies, who had vials of acid on them. This was not a raid, as the concert was legal (permits and everything). However, it was public, and cops can attend too.

Woodstock involved many arrests by plenty of cops as well.

Almost any concert or club will have undercovers who bust people. Idiot. I hope you don't sell shit at clubs right now, for your sake.

 

[XOCVANDALX]

police brutality happens in every city state and country on a daily basis. it will never cease. just thank God that someone got it on video tape. i doubt that will do much good .

 

[yepyepwoah]

You know, I would agree with your first statement. However, good and evil, right and wrong, are subjective and arbitrary terms. "Good is what you like and evil is what you don't like". These people thought they were doing right. Not much we can do about that.

I'm a fucking nerd? Okay, like that is the topic of the thread? That is what makes this raid wrong? Me being a nerd? Wow, make some more personal insights into my life, and then drugs will be legalized! Good point there chief. I think it will go a long way into changing policy.

I agree with the jist of your first comment though. Read what I say. POLITICS WERE INVOLVED. However, the ravw was illegal, and there was nothing ILLEGAL on the part of the police force, regardless of how asinine they were.

Actually, many concerts, raves, clubs, and parties are raided. That last comment you made shows your complete ignorance. Just keep your mouth when you don't know what your talking about and just speaking with anger. Look up the facts first.

The most popular club in D.C. , Nations, was raided by military and the police under the clause I described above (looking into it).

Actually, I specifically know someone in prison right now because he was busted at a Phish concert. It is very ironic and funny that you mentioned of all bands, Phish. He was selling cigarettes in a New York Phish concert, and was busted by undercover cops. So were his two buddies, who had vials of acid on them. This was not a raid, as the concert was legal (permits and everything). However, it was public, and cops can attend too.

Woodstock involved many arrests by plenty of cops as well.

Almost any concert or club will have undercovers who bust people. Idiot. I hope you don't sell shit at clubs right now, for your sake.

yeah I dunno, I meant more like straight up raided and shut down, but I guess they only did it here b/c it was "technically" illegal. I'm not an idiot I know they have undercovers at all those kinda shows and shit and clubs. I was mostly just mad and bitchin.

anyway fuck tha policeeeeee