Mental Health Surmontil (Trimipramine) for sleep (insomnia is a psychiatric disorder)

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

I came to the conclusion that SSRI's are not for me, they send me into mania where I stop needing to eat much and sleep and become totally uninhibited, not in the typical benzo/alcohol or even stimulant way, but it turns me into someone else, who suddenly has no values and does things he wouldn't normally do, I won't expand much further than that.

I've been meaning to find something to sleep besides Seroquel (25mg or less) on top of the Valium, I take 10mg in the afternoon and another in the evening and have been able to do that as long as I had Temazepam 30-60mg a night...and the 60mg is me taking it double than the prescription...so I was sick of always lacking Temazepam at night and looked at a lot of studies and concluded that Trimipramine is something I could give a try. My doc was laughing a bit, saying we rarely script this, it's got a lot of anticholinergic effects, but I told him the 12.5mg ones must be enough and his computer program or whatever he had on his tiny netbook as he agreed to try it, he couldn't find a dose under 25mg...I told him I found the Monograph for Surmontil (brand name) online and that there's 12.5, 25, 50, 75, 100mg doses, but he couldn't find the 12.5, and unless power is out, he doesn't do written scripts anymore, he makes printed scripts that really cannot be tampered with these days, he told me he started doing that so pharmacists weren't so confused when he was having someone do a benzo taper, pharmacists are like "wtf" when you got a script that says this for 2 weeks, that for 3 weeks, and it's going off 1mg of valium every step.

Well the 12.5mg ones did exist and the pharmacy gave me 4 times more pills but they were 12.5, he had the script be 25mg before bed, increase to 50mg if patient wants to. Well it does work, very well at making one sleep, but I had to take 25mg for it to work, and it's virtues of not interfering with REM sleep and keeping your sleep stages as natural as they can be is what made me want to try it, expecting a tetracyclic other than trazodone which is thrown at everybody for sleep here to be much better, trazodone does not give one a normal sleep, that I can attest to, it's one of the medication I've taken that I loathe the most.

It works, but like all antidepressants, other than Manerix (moclobemide...a shame I can't take it, raises my pulse way too high, I have a naturally high pulse for some reason, it's only in Canada, Australia and UK, even if it came out in '77, I bet the DEA was all uppity about it being used for pharmahuasca (and they're right for certain people...I got a lot of jars of 150mg manerix tablets, that reversible MAOI is a wonder), I feel like I'm on some low dose of a serotonergic psychedelic drug, I'm starting to be sure that all the LSD I've done (dosed about 300 times in my life) has changed my neurochemistry and my brain just doesn't like serotonergic drugs, even the come up of MDMA is extremely uncomfortable for me, after it's come I'm alright though...my brother also can't stand MDMA, all it gives him is extreme body temperature variations, so I guess there is something genetic here...and all his friends when he had some mid 2000's pure molly in a cap...back in those days you could be pretty much certain that if it was crystal in a gelcap, it was MDMA or at least MDxx. I have this kind of body load that is a bit uncomfortable, but at the same time, it works very fast, I listened to music today like crazy like I haven't in years despite my massive music collection, physical+digital must equal to over 5000 albums, EP's and 7 inches in total...I was extremely into it and I had a lot better conversations with my girlfriend in years, she says I talk like I used to 2 years ago or so, before the problem of benzo tolerance withdrawal showed up and I have to buy some designer ones in small quantities to make sure I'm okay, but I've had 10-15 days without valium a couple times and I was sure I was losing it and since then I can't smoke weed anymore, I'm certain I could not take a psychedelic again and enjoy it other than 2c-b-fly and AMT for some reason, everything else I tried (low doses) were unpleasant and very depressing even.

I might continue to take it, but I'll stick to the miraculously tiny ( i think they're even smaller than Hycodan 5mg tablets (hydrocodone 5mg tablets in canada) which are really tiny) tablets 12.5mg, once, I think 25mg even of just that is too much for my serotonin-sensitive system.

This morning on day 4, after taking 12.5mg (everything prior to this paragraph I wrote yesterday but did not post), I wake up only 5 hours later and it's because when I got my valium script, some clonazolam in the mail being a saviour, arriving just on time, as I was starting to be in the "been so long I had a benzo, I don't feel confident like the previous days that I can endure it any longer" mode, unable to sleep, muscle cramps everywhere, jagged mood...so when I got home from that late afternoon appointment, not having slept in 48 hours, the Seroquel 25's not doing anything but slightly calming me down (tolerance to the sleep effect of those lowest dose of seroquel almost only prescribed for sleep happens a lot faster than with benzos, at least if you take it irregularly there's no withdrawal, I can't fathom what those people taking antipsychotic doses (200mg+...up to 800...goddamn) have in their minds to be so effed up as to need this thing in such doses, but I hear it stops making people sleepy when it reaches the non "benadryl on steroids" antihistamine effect.

So back to this morning on day 4, only had 25mg on the first day, and had the symptoms I described, 12.5mg leaves me with no such "serotonin-syndromish" symptoms, but when I woke up I was HUNGRY, then after eating a bowl of healthy cereal, I get hungry again a couple hours later just chilling listening to music, but I still got the weight methadone put on me now 4 years ago and it won't go away despite exercise due to apparently me having low thyroid levels, something I'll have corrected when I meet my endocrinologist who's a bit of a cunt, because I was so ill with sinusitis-bronchitis after my doctor came home (yes, came home, he offers home treatment on friday afternoons) and I was put on Cefzil and I dropped the suboxone for 5 days so I could try and enjoy the Hycodan syrup script (worked...kinda), so I spent a lot of time sleeping waiting for the illness to go away and I missed an appointment and my fiancee took a call from her receptionist who said because I missed my appointment the doctor would only see me in 6 months, so yeah low thyroid explains why I can't lose weight despite 20 minutes of stationary bike everyday for periods of 6 months, a day and then I give up, happened twice. All those endocrinological issues aside, after not eating and just drinking grenade juice, I start to get very nauseous, more so when I take hits from my e-cig, reminding me of when one had a little too much opiates with no antihistamine in the house...So, thankfully my suboxone doctor scripts me Hydroxyzine 50mg for suboxone related nausea, but since it is so mild I rarely take it other than to boost the actual suboxone. So, is it like they say, after a while your body adjusts to it or am I now confined to having little-to-zero small bupe high and little-to-zero relief when taking benzos, they just seem to be necessary to take so I don't go into wds. I think I'll be using Trimipramine only when having lots of problems sleeping, it says to take 1 or 2 as needed after all. It's a wonder drug for sleep, but even at 12.5mg (I can't believe there's 75mg and 100mg capsule and tablet respectively of that stuff) but it's got a lot of side effects I don't find too nice to live with.

Anyone with experience with Surmontil(trimipramine) is welcome for advice, or any kind of advice really. I can play self-learned Medicine PhD when it comes to anxiety disorders but antidepressants even if used for other purposes, although trimipramine is made to improve sleep and then mood when one wakes up...I just loathe SSRI's so much I don't feel like I have the answers here. Thanks for you attention.

 

[paranoid android]

I have to say Trimipramine was hands down one of the best Anti-Depressants i have taken. It's one of the very few ones i have taken that actually lifts my mood and stops those godawful depressing dreams i sometimes get that completely ruin my day. Like you SSRI's and SNRI's just did not work for me and/or made me worse. Besides Trimipramine only Bupropion and the other Tricyclic Anti-Depressant Amitriptyline have worked for me. Amitriptyline worked rather well for my Depression as well as Neuropathic pain and insomnia until it crapped out after about 2 years of taking it. I would have to say that i found Trimipramine to be a better Anti-Depressant though as it seemed to address some of the issues that where making me miserable such as Depressing dreams. It's one of the few Anti-Depressants i have taken that i would actually call a mood brightener

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

We're wired the same way man, must be all the water we got around here. I've been taking 12.5-25mg a day since a week and did not give it up at all! It's a miracle, and it gives me the best sleep with 30mg temazepam, I wish I had 15mg temazepams so I could take 15 or 45...I'll try to see if that's possible because I want to use this to reduce my tolerance to benzos and so far it's working, i'm taking less bromaz / diaz during the day and sometimes do not even take temazepam at night, and I got a blotter sheet of clonazolam that I didn't end up eating in 2 weeks (50 0.5mg hits), got it on the 21st and I still have 32. As for amytripiline, it's helpful when combined with other pain meds yes, but I find it's sister nortryptiline even better (Pamelor), so if amy crapped out on you, you should consider nortryptiline, they tend to think less of it and go for the amy a lot more, but no doctor is gonna refuse you a script of nortryptiline. It really helped my TN type II when it was at its worst, when the the TMJ disorder on the same side was at its worst...luckily my maxilofacial surgeon dentist was right even if he retired on me and caused me to take CodeineContins 200mg and a Percodan a day (with Meloxicam 15mg) because he wouldn't do a surgery, he said that TMJ disorder fixes itself with time often and it did, which makes the TN type II much less horrible.

I'm not surprised I actually like Trimipramine, it's skeleton is similar to levomepromazine (Nozinan), dunno if you ever had that, Trimipramine has a slight antipsychotic effect on top of the antidepressant and sedative effects, Nozinan is what was given to a lot of girls who were my weed customers 15 years ago when they were in juvenile hall, it's crazy how many girls I know who ended up there only because they were the youngest kids in the family and their 60+ year old parents when they were teenagers just didn't have the energy to deal with "teenage crisis" again, I understand them (same with my 2 best friends who are my age but their sisters and brothers are 20 years older, one of them struggles a hell lot with alcoholism, the other is a functioning alcoholic electrical engineer, and they both lamented that they were likely accidents). Not me though, I was the first and desired, although a bastard by 5 years, don't care much about that. Nice to see you around PA.

 

[paranoid android]

Yeah i have trigeminal Neuralgia and Tricyclics do help that abit anyway combined with other meds atleast. That is until they crap out on you but 2 years isn't a bad run. Trimipramine is also used for the same purposes as Amitriptyline really which is maybe 1 reason why my doctor will give them to me in the first place as he usually doesn't try anyone with Bipolar on any Anti-Depressant unless a Psychiatrist has seem them and okayed it. He doesn't even like giving me Wellbutrin unless i clearly need it which isn't a bad thing i guess as it's far better then having a doctor that hands out Anti-Depressants like candy. I maxed out at the top outpatient dose of Amitriptyline which is 150mg's a day. You can go up to 300mg's a day but that's only supposed to be done under medical supervision and would increase the risk of cardiac problems at the higher doses. Plus going from 100 to 150mg's didn't seem to make much of a difference anyway.

I have tried Nortriptyline but i was only on a low dose for maybe 2 weeks and for some reason i forget i stopped taking it. That was a long time ago though. I have heard some people say that they find Nortriptyline to be less sedating then Amitriptyline which although good for some sedation is a side effect i want. I even know a few people that get insomnia from Nortriptyline but that could happen with any anti-depressant really. I had the best run of pain free time when i was taking 100-150mg's of Amitriptyline along with the Morphine and Clonazepam i am still on. Though really as i don't have many attacks of TN pain anymore anyway i guess i can't complain.

I have also taken Nozinan aka Methotrimeprazine and i would have to say that is the most sedating drug i have ever taken. I only took 15mg's the first time i took it which was my prescribed dose and didn't hear a sound until a good 12 hours later. Being a Phenothiazine type Anti-Psychotic though means that along with being a really weak Anti-Psychotic it is also a good Anti-Emetic and a good sedative. Though some phenothiazines like Prochlorperazine while much more potent of a Anti-Psychotic then Nozinan are not as sedating due to the fact that it's not nearly as strong of a Anti-Cholinergic. I take good ol Stemetil aka Compazine alot for nausea as well either that or Promethazine which is much easier to get thanks to Histantil being OTC here.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Aeugh...I was given Stemetil as it is called in Canada (I think it was removed from the market a few years ago) at the ER because I was having a panic attack and at the time wasn't on a benzo everyday, it put me into akathesia, the worst feeling I ever felt, I remember when I drove to the ER when it started, I was lucky it was 3:30am in the morning and there was nobody in the waiting room, so I could pace around then want to sit down then be unable to sit down and over and over while you feel like you have electricity shooting up all over your body. The remedy? 2x50mg benadryls as it is an antiparkinsonian the same ER doc who had prescribed me the Prochlorperazine for panic attacks...when I saw it was removed I was pretty glad. It did bring back everything to normal, unfortunately I was in my hometown for the summer and there is no 24 hour pharmacy, so they gave me 2x50 and told me to go buy some more if I still felt bad. Good that you're not getting TN attacks anymore, TN type II is a different kind of annoyance, it's a constant, boring pain that seems to be inside the ear and jaw all day, when I was diagnosed with TMJ disorder and the maxilofacial dentist gave me a referral to a neurologist, who after an IRM said I had pieces of bone that destroyed bits of the myeline or whatever the spelling is for the protection around the electrical cable that are nerves. I was finally taken care of. CodeineContins 200mg, Percodan 5mg (no 10's here as you must know) and Nortryptiline helped. And yeah I did find Trimipramine a very good idea after seeing it was practically not cardiotoxic at all, and that very low doses of 12.5mg were enough for sleep when they made stuff up to 100mg, and that it helped for pain as much as Nozinan (I called it levomepromazine because Americans call it this way), Nozinan taken with a shot of Dilaudid was so analgesic, it made it several times stronger ( I did not shoot it), I was just given a little by a lady friend who had them as leftovers, they were like 8 years old but still as effective. I found nortryptiline more effective than amytriptyline, but that's why they make similar things for the same purpose, some people react differently to substances to some degree. edit : Yeah, it's only the brand name Stemetil that has stopped production, but I've read some paywall info from UofM (Université de Montréal) about prochlorperazine and how canadian pharmacologists were getting much less trusting of the safety of the medication for various reasons, high percentage of akathisia happening a lot more from the data hospitals have gathered on the times they have scripted it to someone and akathisia happened a lot more often with it than other anti-emetics (it was considered only as anti-emetic...I was prescribed it for such bullshit reason...insomnia with a big I, I told em I had just taken a sleep study a few months and I was considered to have Insomnia with a big I from childhood, which is considered a psychiatric disorder apparently (never saw shit, I always fall asleep for some time even if benzo-less for a few days, I got a bunch of other stuff to put me to sleep in those occasions, a couple jars of 50mg Histantils, a script for Atarax 50mg, little yellow houses (Flexeril 10mg, even pharmacists and doctors call 'em that here "p'tites maisons jaunes", I never saw the 7.5 and 5mg versions, already I need 20mg to feel something and I don't take it regularly), clonidine script, a big jar of Mersyndols, the only thing in a pill other than Nyquil pills that has Doxylamine in this country these days, I don't know what they are thinking of trying to remove Doxylamine from everything like that, even Brompherinamine is gone (grey boxes of oral Drixoral...balls, they're not tablets, they were soft small round green balls, a bit like 25mg Atarax, it came with pseudoephedrine in it also, but for some reason the only Drixoral product left is the nasal spray and now at my pharmacy they have Benylin brand dxm syrups behind the counter, as well as Pseudoephedrine by itself is now OTC, although very easy to see and they don't make a case about why you want 'em, with me it's not complicated, I don't wanna buy the pseudoephedrine with ibuprofen or with apap as Suboxone is already rough enough on the liver, not counting all the APAP I take some days. I wonder why the Benylin brand syrups are behind the counter though, there's still Robitussin Gelcaps in the aisles and Life brand (what's the name for that pharmacy chain in english Canada anyway ? The ones who sell Life products as their home brand? Here they're called Pharmaprix) DXM only syrup is still there. I guess it's because they're 12oz bottles, from what I could tell when looking while I have to take my one suboxone 8 in front of the pharmacist and wait a couple minutes and chit-chat before leaving. But yeah, thankfully I can control my benzo intake as much as I want, just that sometimes it will mean 3-4 days max without anything.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Sorry about the wall 'o text, BL won't let me do paragraphs.