SubQ, intramuscular and needles

[Hexagon Sun]

So Im pretty used to do SubQ injections, like more than a year administering hgh and some peptides this way.

Now Im doing TRT with T gel on scrotum, 3 times a day, wich is overkill. So I have ordered T enantate to start doing pins every 2 days.

SubQ needles are about 12milimeters. But IM are double to triple of this. Honesty, Im scared. I also see that there´s plenty of people doing the T oils via SubQ. So my question is can I do Test Enanthate with my subQ needles?

Pros and cons?

Why people do IM instead, with that long killer needle?

So Im ready to do a 0.3ml SubQ first pin of the enanthate, but I will like to know your take before it...

 

[Phobos]

So Im pretty used to do SubQ injections, like more than a year administering hgh and some peptides this way.

Now Im doing TRT with T gel on scrotum, 3 times a day, wich is overkill. So I have ordered T enantate to start doing pins every 2 days.

SubQ needles are about 12milimeters. But IM are double to triple of this. Honesty, Im scared. I also see that there´s plenty of people doing the T oils via SubQ. So my question is can I do Test Enanthate with my subQ needles?

Pros and cons?

Why people do IM instead, with that long killer needle?

So Im ready to do a 0.3ml SubQ first pin of the enanthate, but I will like to know your take before it...

I have been doing Test Cyp SubQ with insulin needles (0.5ml, 30 gauge, 8mm or 1/3" length) for over 2 years.
Have also done a bottle of Enanthate in the same way recently.
You can find doctors prescribing IM only and doctors that recommend SubQ to their patients.

Never tried IM so can't compare.
I just don't want to get scar tissue in muscles if I can avoid it as I don't plan of ever coming off and and I can't see how decades of pushing needles into muscles won't eventually cause scars.
I've seen studies that show that SubQ shots are absorbed a bit more slowly thus lowering peaks after a shot, which should theoretically cause a bit less aromatisation.

I don't recommend you SubQ more than 0.3-0.35ml in one shot.
SubQ shots cause pea sized lumps under your skin if you're lean, the bigger the shot the more pain/irritation you'll have and the longer it will last.
The more subcutaneous fat you have the least pain and irritation you'll have in the injection site, and stay a couple of inches away from your belly button, as a minimum.
Space out shots by at least an inch and a half if at all possible.
Areas you never done SubQ before in seem to get more irritated for a while compared to areas that you have been using for a while.

I inject on my lower belly on the lower half of the 2 lower abs of the sixpack and also to the sides of that going around into my sides and love handles (if you have any fat, doesn't have to be a visible handle) are a decent spot too.

Pharma grade or equally good UGL are fine, but stay away from high dosage UGL Test like 350-400 or 500mg/ml you'll feel like you've been hit with a BB under the skin and the lump will be very obviously visible.
Lower quality UGL test is also not ok for SubQ it is way too irritating.

 

[Hexagon Sun]

Great and detailed info, just what I needed. Thank you for taking the time to write this.

It it 250mg/ml, so maybe it´s going to be a bit painful, lets see. No idea what are the oils/solvents but it is a pretty prestigious lab from china.

I go for my first 0.13ml right now. Spacing pins every 2.5 days That should do 125mg T per week. I will see if next wee I go a little higher. I tend to aromatize quite a lot and I dont want to get puffy.

///

Ok. Done. 0.16ml, zero pain. Less than the regular peptide. So far so good.

I guess I should not keep this in the fridge for not crashing it right?

 

[Phobos]

I guess I should not keep this in the fridge for not crashing it right?

Yeah do not keep it in the fridge, it might or might not crash the Test, but even if it didn't it will make the oil so thick it will be very slow to draw.

Ah, BTW, you pinching some skin and lifting it up to inject right?

 

[RedRum OG]

Yeah, not in the fridge or it will crash. If that happens just heat it in a bowl of warm water. 250mg/ml is pretty standard. Wouldn't worry about that. Not until 350-400mg/ml that they start to use the more irritating solvents.

It's scary, but I've had good luck with IM for years. The shot itself should be painless (as a normal shot) Any pain will be mild, just like DOMS from exercise, and your muscles will usually adapt after a few, and won't get sore once they've adapted. I've had much better luck with cypionate over enanthate in that regard.

 

[Hexagon Sun]

Im close to 20 days pinning subQ and it just works perfect. No pip, any kind of pain, nothing. Just feel s like water. It´s just slow to draw compared to water based, but Im getting zero pain and all the test that I want and more.

So I would say no need to go IM at all. Im super pleased to have tried this route and I is totally recomendable for newcomers.

Next stop: primobolan E. It seems it almost free of sides and it builds slow but quality lasting muscle, isnt?. It seems theres pople taking it all year long. Would you say it does makes sense?

I love my var cycles, but it´s nasty for the lipids/heart and when you finish the cycle you really miss it

 

[Phobos]

Im close to 20 days pinning subQ and it just works perfect. No pip, any kind of pain, nothing. Just feel s like water. It´s just slow to draw compared to water based, but Im getting zero pain and all the test that I want and more.

So I would say no need to go IM at all. Im super pleased to have tried this route and I is totally recomendable for newcomers.

Next stop: primobolan E. It seems it almost free of sides and it builds slow but quality lasting muscle, isnt?. It seems theres pople taking it all year long. Would you say it does makes sense?

I love my var cycles, but it´s nasty for the lipids/heart and when you finish the cycle you really miss it

How much Test are you on?
Primo will lower your E2 levels, and that is going to be dose dependent so you might need to increase your Test dose depending on how much you want to run.

 

[RedRum OG]

Im close to 20 days pinning subQ and it just works perfect. No pip, any kind of pain, nothing. Just feel s like water. It´s just slow to draw compared to water based, but Im getting zero pain and all the test that I want and more.

So I would say no need to go IM at all. Im super pleased to have tried this route and I is totally recomendable for newcomers.

Next stop: primobolan E. It seems it almost free of sides and it builds slow but quality lasting muscle, isnt?. It seems theres pople taking it all year long. Would you say it does makes sense?

I love my var cycles, but it´s nasty for the lipids/heart and when you finish the cycle you really miss it

Primo is incredibly expensive to gain on. Some swear by it, but most consider it weak and underwhelming, even compared to test. For gains, you'd be better of slightly raising test, or adding anavar, or maybe micro masteron if you're concerned about SHBG and such

 

[chicken hoagie]

I have been doing Test Cyp SubQ with insulin needles (0.5ml, 30 gauge, 8mm or 1/3" length) for over 2 years.
Have also done a bottle of Enanthate in the same way recently.
You can find doctors prescribing IM only and doctors that recommend SubQ to their patients.

Never tried IM so can't compare.
I just don't want to get scar tissue in muscles if I can avoid it as I don't plan of ever coming off and and I can't see how decades of pushing needles into muscles won't eventually cause scars.
I've seen studies that show that SubQ shots are absorbed a bit more slowly thus lowering peaks after a shot, which should theoretically cause a bit less aromatisation.

I don't recommend you SubQ more than 0.3-0.35ml in one shot.
SubQ shots cause pea sized lumps under your skin if you're lean, the bigger the shot the more pain/irritation you'll have and the longer it will last.
The more subcutaneous fat you have the least pain and irritation you'll have in the injection site, and stay a couple of inches away from your belly button, as a minimum.
Space out shots by at least an inch and a half if at all possible.
Areas you never done SubQ before in seem to get more irritated for a while compared to areas that you have been using for a while.

I inject on my lower belly on the lower half of the 2 lower abs of the sixpack and also to the sides of that going around into my sides and love handles (if you have any fat, doesn't have to be a visible handle) are a decent spot too.

Pharma grade or equally good UGL are fine, but stay away from high dosage UGL Test like 350-400 or 500mg/ml you'll feel like you've been hit with a BB under the skin and the lump will be very obviously visible.
Lower quality UGL test is also not ok for SubQ it is way too irritating.

Dude thank you for confirming the issue I have been wondering about. Thank you thank you. I will battle through and switch back and forth between subq love handles and my muscle shoulders (have most pain tolerance by far for me)

 

[Phobos]

Dude thank you for confirming the issue I have been wondering about. Thank you thank you. I will battle through and switch back and forth between subq love handles and my muscle shoulders (have most pain tolerance by far for me)

Which issue? High concentration gear from UGLs?

 

[Hexagon Sun]

How much Test are you on?
Primo will lower your E2 levels, and that is going to be dose dependent so you might need to increase your Test dose depending on how much you want to run.

That´s perfect cause now I have to take some letro every other day to not get facebloated as a goat.

Currently aroun 150mg/week. When I get the primo I will probablt up the T to around 200 T, 100 Primo /week. Letro if needed. I know its conservative doses, but Im just starting and I have the facebloating. If it wasnt there I would blast to 400 during the summer, which probably I will

 

[Hexagon Sun]

Primo is incredibly expensive to gain on. Some swear by it, but most consider it weak and underwhelming, even compared to test. For gains, you'd be better of slightly raising test, or adding anavar, or maybe micro masteron if you're concerned about SHBG and such

I do anavar quite a lot and I fucking love it, but my heart is somehow damaged for past abuses and I can´t play too much with the lipids, so I have to touch var the less possible.

Primo price is not a problem, if it´s lipid friendly and I can do long or even perma cycles I want to try it. Also it seems theres a big difference in doing it oral vs pinned. Oral is almost not bioavailable. Pinned, you get 100% of it. Some swear by it... I guess its a question of try all and see what works for you.

Masteron also is the other one that Im going to try. Its a bit like proviron on steroids, isnt? Also lipid friendly, so looks nice but you have to cycle it

Some day I will try tren too, just to have the experience, but not hurries ATM

 

[Phobos]

Masteron also is the other one that Im going to try. Its a bit like proviron on steroids, isnt? Also lipid friendly, so looks nice but you have to cycle it

Masteron is great in everything for me, except for 2 things:
- This is dose dependent, but it can be too stimulating and lead to a feeling of burnout. There is defo a lil bit of withdrawal that feels a bit like coming off daily use of low dose Amphetamines. It doesn't seem to be moreish for me though, I progressively lowered my dose rather than increasing it.
- This happens at any dose for me, even just 35mg per week, it messes with my joints, I ran it really low (35-40mg/week) for about 2 years and joint pain started to appear more and more often I had to take a few breaks because if I kept using it the pain just wouldn't go away, ultimately I quit using it because my left wrist was not healing and in a month off was 80% better and is now ok. Replaced it with 50mg Boldenone Undecylenate (EQ) and it seems a better option for Estrogen management so far.

 

[Hexagon Sun]

Super interesting info. Thanks for sharing. Yea, I can relate to the joint pain/drought too. I feell it mostly on dht derivatives and even with super low dosages of winstrol I get an unbearable shoulder pain that keep me agonizing in bed for hours till it susbsides

So EQ is the opposite, right? Extra lubricated joints, but I guess it comes to the face bloating price, isnt? How do AI relate to Bold? Do you have to take any? Do you get facebloating?

The low dosa anfetamine/post burnout effect is subtle but something I also experience on var. Like is more difficult to sleep on. Also feeling of burnout after 1-2months on it and the initial agressive/uplifting feeling on the first weeks... Its subtle but is clearly there. Interesting, I was not sure if it was there or I was kinda my distorted perceptions

Now I even want more to try Masteron :D

 

[Genetic Freak]

I do anavar quite a lot and I fucking love it, but my heart is somehow damaged for past abuses and I can´t play too much with the lipids, so I have to touch var the less possible.

Primo price is not a problem, if it´s lipid friendly and I can do long or even perma cycles I want to try it. Also it seems theres a big difference in doing it oral vs pinned. Oral is almost not bioavailable. Pinned, you get 100% of it. Some swear by it... I guess its a question of try all and see what works for you.

Masteron also is the other one that Im going to try. Its a bit like proviron on steroids, isnt? Also lipid friendly, so looks nice but you have to cycle it

Some day I will try tren too, just to have the experience, but not hurries ATM

A couple of points, if I may: Your reference to "lipids" I'm assuming is related to LDL. Modern lipidology research might show LDL (on its own) is NO LONGER seen as a marker for coronary vascular disease...
If you wish to reduce the negative health issues from sdLDL, LP(a), oxidised and/or glycated LDL, I suggest you lower or eliminate triglycerides, via zero carbs/sugars.
As a side note, Saturated fat increases functional HDL (essential for reducing plaque burden in coronary vasculature).. Again triglycerides will make HDL non-functional, so zero carbs/sugars..

Bioavailability of injectables is governed in part by the length of the carbon chain added to 17-beta OH... Some esters count for as much as 50% of the molecular weight, so you only get 50% of some compounds.. IE: Decanoate = 60%, Enanthate 65.7%, acetate 81%...
Oral bioavailability is determined by a plethora of metabolic processes within the body..

Masteron is garbage, except if you wish to induce benign prostatic hyperplasia...

 

[Phobos]

Masteron is garbage, except if you wish to induce benign prostatic hyperplasia...

Ah, yes, I forgot to mention that part.
At the end of my 2 years run I felt I was gonna literally pee myself for a half a glass worth of urine.

Possibly caused a nasty UTI by not allowing me to completely empty my bladder.

 

[Phobos]

Super interesting info. Thanks for sharing. Yea, I can relate to the joint pain/drought too. I feell it mostly on dht derivatives and even with super low dosages of winstrol I get an unbearable shoulder pain that keep me agonizing in bed for hours till it susbsides

So EQ is the opposite, right? Extra lubricated joints, but I guess it comes to the face bloating price, isnt? How do AI relate to Bold? Do you have to take any? Do you get facebloating?

Aaah, I think you may be confusing EQ with Nandrolone/Deca/NPP.
Boldenone aromatises to a very weak form of estrogen, so it basically acts as a mild AI.
The the 5 alpha reduced Boldenone, DHB, is also (anecdotally) not as androgenic as DHT.

My joints, tendons and ligaments have been ok on Test + Boldenone.

 

[Ismene2]

Subq is the way to go. Slower absorbtion than IM too.

 

[Foreigner]

Just wanted to chime in. I've been doing IM injections daily for years for various vitamins/minerals that I no longer absorb intestinally because of my autoimmune disease. If you do IM properly, it's not the needle that leads to scarring, it's the injection solution. I inject mag sulfate every 3 days or so and it is buffered with sulfric acid, so I have fibrosis in the injection areas just from that. My other injections, which are buffered with phenyl or saline, don't do this. Every 6 months or so, I take a break from the IM; I use topical DMSO combined with oral hyaluronic acid, collagen, MSM and chondroitin which dissolves the fibrotic lumps and they turn to normal tissue. Takes about two weeks. I also find that since I've been bodybuilding and achieving higher muscle mass, the injection fibrosis has been going away on its own without intervention -- maybe there's more healing resources available to the muscles, dunno.

For hormone injections I don't understand why anyone would do IM if subQ is an option. AFAIK, everyone I've met who does TRT does T by subQ.

 

[Hexagon Sun]

You can absorb magnesium chloride just spraying it over the skin. It´s called "magnesium oil" and is just mg cl and water. In fact it´s probably the better bioavailable magnesium form and incredibly cheap. So no need to pin it.

Interested in th hyaluronic + dmso combo for general tendon/joint health. So you apply the DMSO locally while eating the rest? Does it in fact work?. Any scientific evidence?