Opioids Suboxone With Targin

[Clinton K.]

Hello,

I am new here. I apologize if this has been asked. I tried looking through various FAQs, this place is quite overwhelming if you don't know your way around. Is it safe to take Suboxone and Targin together? And forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought Targin was an opiate. Therefore, wouldn't taking both Targin and Suboxone together make you go into withdrawal immediately? I don't trust many doctors, they have been wrong so many times and caused me many problems. If anyone knows please let me know, I'm afraid to take these.

Thank you.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Welcome to BL!

Targin is oral oxycodone+naloxone? To answer your question: it depends.

If had oxycodone in your system from the Targum prior taking Suboxone, the buprenorphine in the Suboxone will precipitate withdrawal. This happens because buprenorphine knocks oxycodone “violently” off opioid receptors. It has nothing to do with naloxone.

If you had buprenorphine in your system from taking Suboxone prior to taking Targin, the buprenorphine would prevent the bulk of the oxycodone from binding with opioid receptors, and you’d like feel like effect if any from the oxycodone. Again nothing to do with naloxone.

You won’t go into precipitated withdrawal from taking Targin while you still have Suboxone in your system. That’s only if you have oxycodone in your system prior to injesting

I’m entirely clear the situation of having buprenorphine in your system, then taking oxycodone, then taking more buprenorphine later. From my limited experience with something like that, as long as you still have buprenorphine in your system by the next dose of buprenorphine, even if there is a little oxycodone still around the second dose of buprenorphine should cause precipitated withdrawal because the partial agobism it buprenorphine is still regulating opioid receptors.

It’s basically only when a full agonist is regulating opioid receptors that a partial agonist like buprenorphine would precipitate withdrawal.

If you are using low doses of buprenorphine for pain, oxycodone on top of that could still provide analgesia to some extent, but the doses of buprenorphine in Suboxone mean that Targin would be of little value for pain relief, and even less for getting high.

That said, probably don’t want to inject or insulfate the Targin. That sounds like a great way to get enough naloxone into your system to mess with oxycodone, potentially leading to precipitated withdrawal or at least very little effect from oxycodone. In this case the naloxone in the Targin is what is problematic.

Would you be able to snort/inect Targin after taking Suboxone and not have the naloxone in that mess wth the oxycodone? Maybe. I have no idea, but the risk involved isn’t worth it. And most likely the oxycodone simply wouldn’t do anything even if there wasn’t naloxone in the formulation, as the buprenorphine from Suboxone would create a blockade effect preventing it work attaching to opioid receptors.

What’s the sitiaution with the Suboxone and Targin for you though? Are you prescribed both Targin and Suboxone? For what reason(s)?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

i would take them separately, save the oxycodone for bad pain and take the suboxone when your pain is low. just make sure to switch properly from oxy to subs by fasting for 24 hrs after the last dose of oxy


im wondering why your doctor would prescribe them together, it seems stupid

 

[Jabberwocky]

Buprenorphine and agonists are sometimes prescribed together, it’s just weird like you were saying. Not the most effective pain meds, especially when it’s buprenorphine via Suboxone.

 

[JessFR]

As others have explained, if you take the targin and then the subuxone, yes, you're at risk of precipitated withdrawal from the buprenoroine in the targin replacing the oxy in your receptors. If you the subuxone and then the targin, you shouldn't go into precipitated withdrawal, but it wouldn't be surprising if the targin didn't have much effect.

Precipitated withdrawal happens when you have opioid molecules on your cellular receptors, and then take buprenorphine. The buprenorphine has a much stronger binding affinity, so it will displace the other opioids in your system. And it isn't a full agonist like other opioids. So it doesn't activate the receptors to the same extent as the opioid it's replacing. As a result, the total amount of opioid effect on your receptors experiences a sudden drop, which you experience as withdrawal.

If you take the targin then the oxy, the buprenorphine will already be in your system, so it won't strip any oxy off your receptors. But it will inhibit the oxy from attaching to those receptors itself.

Also, you'll hear mixed opinions about this, but the naloxone part likely doesn't have an enormous influence. Naloxone isn't very bioavailable orally. And buprenorphine has a stronger binding affinity than naloxone, so it will displace the naloxone on your receptors as well like it does the oxy. Which isn't to say it has no impact, just not as much as some might think. Provided you aren't injecting it.

 

[Clinton K.]

Wow, thanks so much for the replies. I really appreciate it.

I can't say too much because I don't know much about these meds. To be honest, I'm having trouble following some of the info on this site. Most seem extremely well informed.

If this helps, there is no oxy alone...unless you are speaking of the one in Targin. And I am taking these meds orally, I'm not snorting it or injecting it. And nothing against anyone else, everybody has their own problems. I can't afford to fool around with things like this, and I'm very frightened and distrustful of doctors. So I don't know what to think.

However, does knowing I will be taking these orally make any difference?

And thank you again for all your help.

 

[Jabberwocky]

It does, because you’ll run into less issues using them as prescribed. Are you already taking buprenorphine? That is the only issue. Can’t induct on that with oxycodone in your system.

 

[Hodor]

However, does knowing I will be taking these orally make any difference?

Targin contains naloxone as a means of preventing IV abuse.

Naloxone has an extremely poor oral bioavailability, meaning that if you take your Targin orally, almost all the naloxone will be destroyed by your liver before it can enter the bloodstream, allowing the oxycodone (which has a pretty good oral bioavailability) to exert its normal effects.

If you were to inject it, both drugs' bioavailabilities would reach 100%, which represents a much bigger increase for the naloxone than it does for the oxy. In other words, the extra naloxone would not just easily compensate for the extra oxycodone, but it would actually displace the oxycodone to such an extent that an opioid-dependent person would be sent into withdrawal.

Suboxone likewise contains naloxone, with the active opioid being buprenorphine.
Buprenorphine is a special case because it is a so-called "partial agonist". It can only activate an opioid receptor to a certain extent, but binds to the receptors very strongly; this means that for someone with only a small to medium level of opioid tolerance would be able to get high on it, while someone with a massive opioid habit would find themselves in withdrawal after the buprenorphine has displaced their previous opioid from the receptors.
Again, the naloxone is ostensibly added to deter IV use, although due to buprenorphine's very high binding affinity it is much less effective at displacing it (however, due to its partial-agonist nature, buprenorphine also has a significantly lower abuse potential to begin with).

 

[Clinton K.]

Targin contains naloxone as a means of preventing IV abuse.

Naloxone has an extremely poor oral bioavailability, meaning that if you take your Targin orally, almost all the naloxone will be destroyed by your liver before it can enter the bloodstream, allowing the oxycodone (which has a pretty good oral bioavailability) to exert its normal effects.

If you were to inject it, both drugs' bioavailabilities would reach 100%, which represents a much bigger increase for the naloxone than it does for the oxy. In other words, the extra naloxone would not just easily compensate for the extra oxycodone, but it would actually displace the oxycodone to such an extent that an opioid-dependent person would be sent into withdrawal.

Suboxone likewise contains naloxone, with the active opioid being buprenorphine.
Buprenorphine is a special case because it is a so-called "partial agonist". It can only activate an opioid receptor to a certain extent, but binds to the receptors very strongly; this means that for someone with only a small to medium level of opioid tolerance would be able to get high on it, while someone with a massive opioid habit would find themselves in withdrawal after the buprenorphine has displaced their previous opioid from the receptors.
Again, the naloxone is ostensibly added to deter IV use, although due to buprenorphine's very high binding affinity it is much less effective at displacing it (however, due to its partial-agonist nature, buprenorphine also has a significantly lower abuse potential to begin with).

Does this mean I will be alright, though? And forgive me, I'm not nearly as educated regarding these medications as posters here seems to be.

Was this site up a decade ago? The hell I might have been saved from had I found it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^yup, BL was around back then. Not sure if OD was, but I think it was back in 2008.

If you take Targin after Suboxone you already have gotten used to buprenorphine in your system, yes you’ll be fine.

 

[zephyr]

^ OD has been around since before the Internet and is a sacred ancient bit of bandwidth seeped in history of junky past if Tathra sees the 08 thing youll be up for the PhreeX lecture. Be prepared

 

[Jabberwocky]

Lol I do like my history lessons

Esp BL history. The institution! The myth! The legend!