• HEALTH & RECOVERY
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules Thread Directory 1 Thread Directory 2
    Mindfulness Links Addiction & Mind
    Sober Living Partner Program (SLiPP)
  • H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Suboxone taper from 32mg - advice

A

AnythingEverything

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 17, 2014
Messages
540
Hi all

Firstly, I would really appreciate no comments about the 'absurdness' of my dose. I get them every single time I mention it and don't need to explain myself again please ?

So I've been on suboxone for coming up 3 years now and have my quarterly appointment tomorrow night which I know will be the start of my reduction. Knowing my dr he will only drop me a a mg or 2 which I know I will probably not argue with knowing me but im wondering about other people's experiences coming off a high dose :)

I split my dose as its the only way it works for me, normally 4 x 8mg but I don't always take my full amount, though I have been lately. In my last job I cut down by half. I found I could take 16mg split without noticing anytning for about 4 or 5 days when I would start to feel the withdrawal and take my full dose again on that day and perhaps the next.

I am pretty sure I could jump down to 24 with not much of an issue and possibly lower with just a little discomfort. It's more the end im worried about, from 2mg and below. But that's a long way off.

I have been on a benzo taper for nearly 3 years also and am down to just 20mg of diazepam a day which does NOTHING except stop me withdrawing badly. I've not had a drop in over 6 months so I know he is going to drop that also (which scares me way more as I've been through HELL with benzo withdrawal.). If he wants to drop my subs I want to stay on my benzo dose for awhile but he hates hates benzos so he is more likely to say don't change the subs and drop the benzos ??

Can anyone suggest a vague taper plan? Im going to take it at my own pace, I only see my dr 4 times a year and have no supervised doses or urine tests or anything to date. My dr is super laid back and if I say I don't want to reduce he will probably be fine but I feel I should be getting it down by now. I expect my taper will take a couple of years as im still dealing with some heavy duty issues and ptsd which are far from resolved, and I can't risk relapse for my beautiful families sake. I have 5 beautiful, talented and super busy kids so I just can't be sick all the time.

What has been your experience coming off a large BUPE dose? Even more than physically, how did it affect you emotionally? I've been suicidal many times and im just keeping on top of my depresion right now (weaned myself off pristiq over 6 months ago and don't feel any worse for it though the withdrawl was hell.). Anxiety is bad bad bad at the moment and benzos do nothing.

Thanks for reading. I would love to get back to NA one day.
 
Last edited:
How much time do you have? If you have enough time, I'd say like 1mg a week. The point I'm suggesting is that the slower you do this the easier it will probably be, seeing as you also have been tapering benzos. Getting off both benzos and Suboxone at the same time will be significantly more difficult than one then (much) later (on) the other.

You probably already know this, but it's going to be tremendously easier cut your dose down by more from 32-12mg than 4-0mg.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
toothpastedog said:
How much time do you have? If you have enough time, I'd say like 1mg a week. The point I'm suggesting is that the slower you do this the easier it will probably be, seeing as you also have been tapering benzos. Getting off both benzos and Suboxone at the same time will be significantly more difficult than one then (much) later (on) the other.

You probably already know this, but it's going to be tremendously easier cut your dose down by more from 32-12mg than 4-0mg.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to reply toothpastedog?

I have probably a couple of years, pretty sure he's keen to keep people on Suboxone being a private dr, Benzos are another story though as he hates them and only prescribes them to taper, not for any other reason. He also doesn't like to prescribe gabapentin or anything similar to help with Benzo withdrawal. I've been on this dose for a couple of years now and he's always just said 'want to reduce' and I've never started. So it won't have to be quick. Maybe I could do the 1mg a week you suggested until I get down to 12 or 8 or just play it by ear and then hang there for awhile. And yeah, I am way more worried about getting off the small dose at the end than from dropping down from where I am now.

Im not ready to come off the Benzos at all :( though I haven't had a drop in so long im pretty sure he is going to want me to reduce again from tonight. It's again been years coming down from 400mg-500mg plus (or equivalent of xanax or another benzo) to get to 20. I've done rapid detoxes before and cannot function so im quite scared about that. Not too worried about halving my sub dose but my life just doesn't allow me the time to be sick or rest. Im annoyed at myself that im where I am:(

Last time I did an opiate detox in hospital I was given clonidine which helped a little (though the opiate detox was nothing compared to the benzos)....do drs normally prescribe this or something similar to come off subs?

Actually, that's another question i would like to ask. Prescriptions or other to help with BUPE detox (for the end bit, not for now). Peoples experiences? Does weed help or hinder? Thanks again.
 
Just had my appt and after a lot of deliberation im down to 30mg. I know it's a tiny drop but I went in there so confident to say I wanted to go down a significant amount but once faced with the reality, I sat there for over ten minutes trying to decide whether or not to drop down at all. Oh well, its a start. I don't see him for another 3 months so I guess that will be my dose for awhile now. He is extremely hard to contact and im not sure if he will reduce me without seeing me.
 
In my opinion, it would be a lot easier to come of of benzos first then dealing with suboxone. Why the rush to get off both? I understand wanting to be soberly, and to get sober quickly but if you want to have a sustainable sobriety then I recommend doing one then the other. It took me 6 years to get off of all the crap I was one, but once benzo withdrawal hot, that became my focus. Once that got better, I worked on other stuff and now have two years clean.
 
No rush at all. I've already been tapering the benzos for nearly 3 years after a couple of hellish detoxes, DEFINITELY NOT in a hurry though it is inevitable. I am trying to see where I said I was in a hurry? I mentioned I still have unresolved issues and expect to be on these meds for a couple more years yet.

I was sure he was gojng to insist on another drop tonight but he didn't, he did say you're going to be stuck on it for life. Im only on 20mg valium now after being on 500 but it does NOTHING for my anxiety, I dont even know when I've had it, it's just to keep me from getting sick, so I would like to be off them eventually as it's just chemicals in my body for no benefit.

As for the subs, I just want to get my dose down as im on 32mg which is a lot for anyone and im only a small female. I've been on that for nearly 3 years. As I said, i expect it to take years to get off fully and im not emotionally ready. I've just dropped to 30 which I will be on for 3 months.

I had around 14 years clean prior to relapsing a few years back so I've done plenty of clean time in the past after using a lot in my teens until having my first child at 22.

I've also gotten off pristiq, serequol, zyprexa, zyban (Wellbutrin), lyrica, oxy,codeine, alcohol, propanolol, xanax, temazepam, lorazepam, tramadol and others im sure I've forgotten about, over the last couple of years, all of which I was taking at once and all of which I was abusing (apart from the propanolol) after not touching so much as panadol for 14 years.

But yeah, definitely NOT in any hurry, quite the opposite, I would just like to get the subs down to a lower dose mainly. Being on such a large dose is taking its toll in many ways. I definitely won't be withdrawing from suboxone when I get to the end of my benzo taper, no way, no how, I just want to be stable on a lower dose which is entirely possible now I split my dose (I could have stayed much lower if I knew to do that earlier.)

I have done a 14 day detox from large dose of benzos, opiates and alcohol before and doing it that way does not work for me, Esepcially with the benzos, benzo withdrawal leaves me bedridden and unable to function from about week 3 onwards and I cannot go through thay again with 5 amazing and busy children.
 
Last edited:
x_benzo_girl said:
In my opinion, it would be a lot easier to come of of benzos first then dealing with suboxone. Why the rush to get off both? I understand wanting to be soberly, and to get sober quickly but if you want to have a sustainable sobriety then I recommend doing one then the other. It took me 6 years to get off of all the crap I was one, but once benzo withdrawal hot, that became my focus. Once that got better, I worked on other stuff and now have two years clean.
Click to expand...

QFT. Gaining sobriety is not necessarily abstinence from drugs. It is a state of mind that is achieved by working on ones behaviors. I would also say that I would work on each one individually and give a little time between each taper so as to let your body stabilize.
 
I totally agree and I just re read my posts and I don't see where I've said im in any hurry to get off anything. Im finding it a bit baffling that it came across that way, I have read and re read lol.

I am no stranger to addictjon and recovery. I have had long term sobriety (14 years) in the past and I simply want to get my suboxone dose down from 32mg and be stable on maybe 16 or less....and my benzo taper is somewhat governed by my dr though he showed mercy tonight and didn't drop me below my 20mg. I will definitely not finish my benzo taper unless I am stable on subs.

My dr HATES benxos and never prescribes them except to taper. I did not expect to be allowed to stay on them for this long as it is but he has been merciful. Im black listed every in the state so can only go through him for any schedule 8 drugs.

I have also experienced the drug version of what they call being.a dry drunk in AA, anstinence from drugs but being miserable due to not working on my issues and just swapping drug addiction for other addictions and behaviours. I don't class that as recovery even though I was clean from all drugs and alcohol. I had many years of recovery where I was doing a lot of therapy and meetings. I am doing that at the moment and hope to get back to that soon. Im 38 with 5 kids and have a lot of reasons to be in recovery.

I listed as many of the drugs I've been addicted to over the last few years in a post above. Previously (over 17 years ago) I was addcited to and did rehab for IV meth, heroin, and used a lot of other drugs, weed, lsd, alcohol, Benzos etc back in the day, I kicked them all at once to have my first child. I was doing a couple of NA meetings a day after rehab plus counselling etc.
 
Last edited:
AnythingEverything said:
He also doesn't like to prescribe gabapentin or anything similar to help with Benzo withdrawal. I've been on this dose for a couple of years now and he's always just said 'want to reduce' and I've never started.
Click to expand...

That pissed me off. There is no reason a doctor should rule out any legit medication hands down. If he is so stubborn I'd highly recommend finding another psychologist, and working with both of them. Just be totally honest about your concerns with the new one, and the current one prescribing Suboxone, and sign a release of information so they can work together. You're going to need all the support you can get.
 
toothpastedog said:
That pissed me off. There is no reason a doctor should rule out any legit medication hands down. If he is so stubborn I'd highly recommend finding another psychologist, and working with both of them. Just be totally honest about your concerns with the new one, and the current one prescribing Suboxone, and sign a release of information so they can work together. You're going to need all the support you can get.
Click to expand...

Ugh, I wrote out a reply to this last night but just checked and it didn't post.

Yeah, he has some pretty strong views on certain things. In some ways it's good, I'd never be able to talk him into giving me the xanax i so desperately crave or anything like that as he is stauch (he's really nice)but at the same time, I am super worried about coming to the end of my Benzo taper. Benzo withdrawal is hell for me and i have to be able to function for my kids. I've asked about gaba etc in relation to the end of my taoer in the past and he's made it pretty clear :;(. I am definitely going to beed all the help I can get, if I suffer like I did the last couple of times coming off benzos I will end up picking up again and be back to square one.

He's not a psych, he's just my Suboxone dr but as im blacklisyed in my state, he's the only one who can precribe me meds. Im not sure how I would go about changing drs or finding a psych that can prescibe suboxone, im not sure how it is elsewhere but only those who have done the training and have the license can prescibe it here. I am a bit wary to change as he's been very liberal with my Benzo taper since it's gotten down so low. I've been on the Same dose for over 6 months now and it will be at least another 3 months as I only see him quarterly. At this stage I don't think I would cope having to come off any quicker. I would worry that another dr would enforce the taoer. He was strict on it when I was on 20 times the dose but that's understandable.

Thank you for your input, I appreciate it.
 
Hi :) just been reading through your post, you poor thing. You really have been through it all haven't you.

My dr is similar in stubbornness, he won't prescribe benzos either, I have to beg him once a year for a few zopiclone so I can get a good nights sleep, even then he gives you a minimal amount of the lowest mg ones! I think we should be allowed to request and obtain any drug we want to put into our bodies, it's our human right isn't it! Never gonna happen tho, Drs like the control they have.

i also worry about coming off my subs, here in the uk they reduce by 0.4 mg each month. They haven't even talked about reducing yet so I think they want me to be 100% stable first which I feel like I'm not. I was on holiday last week and out of interest I didn't take my sub for one day, I usually dose at 10am every morning. By about 12pm I was already irritable, 3pm I was sweating, leg cramps and all usual withdrawal symptoms started, I must say I was shocked withdrawal kicked in so quickly. So I'm getting around 26-29 hours out of 10mg of them. Does that sound reasonable to you? I really thought I wouldn't have any withdrawal as been off opiates since early Jan, and on subs since. I know partial opoid but I was still a little shocked.

Anyway, just reduce at the pace you feel most comfortable , if you really don't want to reduce your diazepam, just tell him your concerns, 20mg a day isn't a lot in comparison to what you took previously. Maybe try 18mg and go down in 2s? That could work for you. Completely understand being poorly with children to care for, we both have everything to stay on the straight and narrow for :) one day we will be free of prescription drugs! Horrible having to rely on a dr to keep you going.

Good luck, let me know how it goes with him xoxox
 
Don't think so much about the end or how much your dose is. For me I get 12 mg of suboxone a day I break it into 2 mg doses and take it throughout the day. It's more of a mental issue for of just having to take my sub dose at a certain time each day. I gotta take it as soon as my eyes open because when I did pills as soon as my eyes opened I crushed a 30. I'm trying a little harder each day to push back taking that first 2 mg from as soon as I get up till an hour after I get up. It's all baby steps, your dr shouldn't rush you and should be patient with you even if you only come down 1 mg at a time
 
Yeah he's definitely not in a Rush. He asked me last night if I wanted to reduce and I was all ready to say yeah I'll go down to 28 or so but I sat there for so long just pondering making the step down to 30. I know I won't even feel that at all on such a high dose. It's still a couple of years away so I'll just plod along. Im sure I'll be on subs for awhile to come yet, would just like to get the dose down to a lower level :). Ta
 
In my experience cutting down on subs is not very noticeable - though I was never up to 32mg daily - just take it slowly ( and I mean slow a few mg every few months) and settle on what you feel comfortable with. I've never had a benzo addiction so can't comment on it.
 
Thanks, yeah, tomorrow will be my first day of reducing to 30. I don't expect to feel any different really (except that now instead of just handing me over a full box of 8mg the chemist is going to have to count them out and I'll now have to do 3x8mg and 3x2mg strips everyday. Ugh I should have gone a little lower to a dose that doesn't involve taking 6 strips a day. ?. After all this time they really make me want to vomit, I rarely take them orally anymore.

Benzos are staying where they are right now. I don't know if I'll ever be ready to go through that again. It terrifies me.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
 
AnythingEverything said:
Thanks, yeah, tomorrow will be my first day of reducing to 30. I don't expect to feel any different really (except that now instead of just handing me over a full box of 8mg the chemist is going to have to count them out and I'll now have to do 3x8mg and 3x2mg strips everyday. Ugh I should have gone a little lower to a dose that doesn't involve taking 6 strips a day. . After all this time they really make me want to vomit, I rarely take them orally anymore.

Benzos are staying where they are right now. I don't know if I'll ever be ready to go through that again. It terrifies me.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Click to expand...

How do you usually take them? Do u snort them? I'm used to their taste now, I quite like it haha!
 
Opiatehell85 said:
Ive not tried plugging them, does it give a better effect? And do you dissolve in water first?
Click to expand...

It works the same for me, I have never felt anything from bupe anyway, I just find it easier. This is kind of not talked about a lot and sorry for TMI but I actually find the easiest way is intra vaginally ?. I don't dissolve them, just pop and forget lol! It has the added bonus for me in that I am one that gets side effects from swallowing the naloxene (I have to spit it out after the BUPE has dissolved or I get terrible headaches and nausea, took me ages to work that out), so taking it the way I do, the naloxene isnt absorbed through my stomach and I don't get sick. Not sure how that works as im clearly absorbing it but it does :).

I've looked into negative side effects of doing this and can't find much at all so happy doing this for now. I'm finished having children so not worried about any reproductive effects. I also find being on the go constantly with 5 childen, taking it this way is simpler:). I know that for some it can be 'addict behaviour' and if im honest, when I first tried it, it was for me, I was desperate to 'feel something' but I don't and never will so it's pure convinience:)
 
Last edited:
Yeah I used to throw up everyday after my dose of subutex. Something about it turned my stomach. I ended up injecting it because I would not need to take as much, and I wouldn't get sick. This led to other complications down the road though. My veins are all but shot..which sucks because I routinely need blood tests done, and my hands fall asleep quite a bit.

I would suggest not seeking feeling something from bupe. It just doesn't really do that unless you stop taking it for a long time then take it again. I noticed it didn't scratch my itch very well and I always was craving a rush. This led to me using IV cocaine in addition to the subutex. My problem though was that even though I was going to meetings and trying my hardest to stay straight I wasn't really working on the causes of my addiction. It took an intense relapse, incarceration, and rehab in order for me to be honest with myself. The reason I talk about honesty is because that is something you will need to come to grips with if you ever want to quit the bupe. Only you can decide for yourself what is best, and the best way to take your meds and the dosage you need.

If I was in your shoes though anythingeverything I would work on getting down to a lower dose. I noticed I got better effects from a dose of 4mg as opposed to a dose of 16mg. It really is peculiar that with bupe less is more so to speak. I say this though as food for thought, what works for one person is unique to them and may not work for someone else.

What are you doing for recovery support? Personally I just help out other addicts. I have been to a lot of meetings, and been in therapy...but simply helping others with my experience and just being an ear to bend (god knows I need it too sometimes) has been the most helpful for me to stay straight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top