suboxone dose for sensitive long-term addict

[sandiegosubby]

Hi all,

I'm an opioid addict of 8 years who has tried to get clean numerous times but always ends up relapsing. Whenever I quit, I get such bad PAWS that I can't function. When I say bad, I mean that I can be extremely thirsty, have a glass of water in front of me, and be unable to get the motivation to move my arm to pick up the glass and alleviate my thirst. My longest period of clean time has been 10 months, but it was so hellish that I ended up right back on oxy again.

My situation is somewhat unusual in that my body has always been very sensitive to opioids. After 8 years of addiction, I have never taken more than 30 mg of oxy at once and no more than 120 mg in one day. My starting dosage with no tolerance is usually 5 mg, which gets me about as high as 20 mg would get someone else, and my average dosage after a long period of active addiction seems to cap out at 12-15 mg, after which my tolerance doesn't seem to increase and I only get additional negative effects if I increase my dose. Similarly, quitting even as little as 20 mg per day of oxy has me in excruciating pain, shaking, crying, and in constant need of the toilet.

Because of the severity of my PAWS symptoms, which don't go away after even nearly a year clean, I've been taking kratom for a while now to remain functional. Regular kratom doesn't really help me, but Ultra Enhanced Indo has given me my life back. My problem is that, as a result of the DEA's proposed ban of kratom, production of UEI has been indefinitely suspended and I am going to run out within a couple weeks. I've been considering going on suboxone for long-term maintenance and have found a doctor that is aware of my entire situation and is willing to put me on suboxone for as long as I'd like.

It's my understanding that suboxone is extremely powerful and that regular doses of suboxone may exceed the tolerance induced by my use of kratom, which I'd rate as the equivalent of about 30-40 mg of oxy per day. The suboxone doctor I found said he'd be willing to let me take as small of a dose of suboxone as I'd like for my induction, since the typical 2-4 mg offered may be too strong for me.

I know it's difficult to get an accurate conversion between something like oxy and suboxone, and I've read all of the previous threads where this has been attempted. I was wondering if anyone else in a similar situation to me could offer some thoughts on an initial starter dose. Since I need a very small dose, I was thinking about starting on somewhere between 0.25 mg - 0.5 mg and working my way up from there. Does anyone have any insight on whether 0.5 mg could potentially be too much for someone with daily dose equivalent and sensitivity? Is there some weirdness with the way buprenorphine works in the brain where any effective dose, no matter how small, might make me feel excessively opiated?

I guess I just want to make sure I go into this with a solid game plan so that I can minimize how many incremental doses I have to take in order to stabilize myself without going over and puking for 24 hours because I took too much suboxone, like some other people on this forum have experienced.

Thanks so much in advance!

 

[Invisible Helper]

I don't Consider you an addict if you feel 20 MG of oxy idk what you're talking about 8 year addiction I don't see it. You saying you never taken more than 30 mgs at once is either you trying to show off and act cool that you have control or some shit or youre lying and if you're Not lying than you're kinda dumb for being physically dependent on opiates and never enjoying them which I don't believe this whole post is silly to be honest, and you won't be puking no matter what withdrawals from 30-60 mgs oxy a day wouldn't make my pinky toe sick subs are way more powerful anyways you'd be getting more addicted your dosages are dosages I took as a 16 year old barely starting to touch opiates and you're addicted for 8 years ? Lololol fail... I'm not here to be mean but dude ..

 

[sandiegosubby]

Well, that's pretty rude and entirely unhelpful, honestly. I never said I never enjoyed them. In fact, as I mentioned in my post, a 5 mg dose with no tolerance got me about as high as friends taking 20 mg. My theory has always been that I must have one of the cytochrome P450 variants that causes me to either be a rapid metabolizer or a slow metabolizer, whichever would cause me to feel a substance more intensely, but that is beside the point.

I have no interest in coming to a forum to seem "cool" to a bunch of people I don't know and I am not lying, I am just looking for advice on finding a dose that will work for my level of tolerance so that I don't have to suffer every day. I'll be able to cut the 2 mg suboxone strips into as small a dose as I need to accurately measure an appropriate amount.

Consider that addiction is a chronic and relapsing disease of the brain and maybe it's clear why I haven't been able to quit over the past 8 years, even though I've managed to keep my tolerance fairly low. This is not just about physical dependence.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I don't Consider you an addict if you feel 20 MG of oxy idk what you're talking about 8 year addiction I don't see it. You saying you never taken more than 30 mgs at once is either you trying to show off and act cool that you have control or some shit or youre lying and if you're Not lying than you're kinda dumb for being physically dependent on opiates and never enjoying them which I don't believe this whole post is silly to be honest, and you won't be puking no matter what withdrawals from 30-60 mgs oxy a day wouldn't make my pinky toe sick subs are way more powerful anyways you'd be getting more addicted your dosages are dosages I took as a 16 year old barely starting to touch opiates and you're addicted for 8 years ? Lololol fail... I'm not here to be mean but dude ..

Who the hell do you think you are? Actively belittling, putting down, insulting or otherwise bullying fellow BL'ers is not condoned or permitted. It seems like you're one of the archetyple junkies I see at the clinic who literally have nothing in their lives, so they choose to develop some kind of vague pride in their drug use. That is great for you that you've managed to develop a severe Opioid addiction. We're gonna throw a ticker tape parade and give you a morning talk-show styled after The View where you will discuss such pertinent topics as, "I can't believe how lame that asshole is; half a bun a day? What a pussy!".

I don't care how minor or major a person's situation is. We will help them regardless without judgment... at least people who actually subscribe to Harm Reduction philosophy and have compassion for their fellow members. Everybody's situation is relative.

Sandie, I promise that invisible helper is not indicative of how our community operates. It's people like him that give us a bad name. Most of us honestly care and as fellow users, possess some empathy for these situations. Whether you're using recreationally or not, the end result is the same right? Dependence and withdrawal, so there's no need to truly differentiate in this situation. I've sent you a private message. Get back to me if you'd like to discuss the Buprenorphine/Kratom.

 

[bukweat]

Temgesic is .2mgs.
As for addiction, it is what it is. Sometimes you, can't swing a dead cat without hitting an asshole. Such is life.

 

[Invisible Helper]

I'm so sorry guys I had a friend on my phone who posted under my name I would never insult anyone like that I gave him a good punch in the chest for doing that he thought it was cute or funny

 

[sandiegosubby]

Just wanted to come back and update everyone. I did a Suboxone induction yesterday morning, starting at 1/8 mg and eventually taking a second 1/8 mg, for a total of 1/4 mg. This amount covered about 95% of my withdrawal symptoms and actually gave me a bit of a buzz the first day. On day two at 0.25 mg, I don't have that same buzz but am still experiencing the same level of relief. I figure after about a week of adjustment, I'll be at 100%.

One major benefit that I'm already noticing from switching is that I've gone from taking kratom 6-8x a day to only needing Suboxone once a day, which means I'm not constantly thinking about using. It also alleviates the temptation of boosting my dose to deal with a temporary situation in my day. When I was stressed at work, I'd double my kratom dose to achieve a buzz to help me get through a rough meeting, rather than developing healthy coping mechanisms. The temptation to do this with Suboxone just isn't there.

Since I spent many hours scouring the web for this information, I figured it might be helpful to others in my situation: after 23 hours with no kratom, I experienced absolutely no precipitated withdrawal from taking Suboxone, despite still having some lingering positive mood effects, possibly from some of the other receptors it hits and mitragynine's relatively long halflife (compared to 7-OHM, which is the primary chemical in the extract I was using). I was only about a 4-6 on the COWS scale when I went in. And once again, about 1/4 mg of buprenorphine was enough to alleviate my symptoms, so start low if you're sensitive, and then take more if you aren't at 100% two hours later. DO wait the full 2 hours, because it really does take that long time peak, and you may end up sick if you dose after only 1 hour (or even an hour and a half) thinking you need more when you do not.

One final point: I tried only taking 1/8 mg today because part of me is still hesitant about becoming dependent on a substance with such a long halflife, and therefore, such a long withdrawal period if I ever have to quit. This led to hours of some of the deepest depression I've felt in years, which was completely alleviated when I took the rest of my dose. If you're experiencing new depression when you begin Suboxone, you may not be taking enough.

Thank you so much to everyone who replied or messaged me with assistance and words of encouragement. I'll continue to come back to Bluelight periodically to share any relevant updates regarding my use of Suboxone and my addiction recovery.

 

[JoeJunky]

Just wanted to come back and update everyone. I did a Suboxone induction yesterday morning, starting at 1/8 mg and eventually taking a second 1/8 mg, for a total of 1/4 mg. This amount covered about 95% of my withdrawal symptoms and actually gave me a bit of a buzz the first day. On day two at 0.25 mg, I don't have that same buzz but am still experiencing the same level of relief. I figure after about a week of adjustment, I'll be at 100%.

One major benefit that I'm already noticing from switching is that I've gone from taking kratom 6-8x a day to only needing Suboxone once a day, which means I'm not constantly thinking about using. It also alleviates the temptation of boosting my dose to deal with a temporary situation in my day. When I was stressed at work, I'd double my kratom dose to achieve a buzz to help me get through a rough meeting, rather than developing healthy coping mechanisms. The temptation to do this with Suboxone just isn't there.

Since I spent many hours scouring the web for this information, I figured it might be helpful to others in my situation: after 23 hours with no kratom, I experienced absolutely no precipitated withdrawal from taking Suboxone, despite still having some lingering positive mood effects, possibly from some of the other receptors it hits and mitragynine's relatively long halflife (compared to 7-OHM, which is the primary chemical in the extract I was using). I was only about a 4-6 on the COWS scale when I went in. And once again, about 1/4 mg of buprenorphine was enough to alleviate my symptoms, so start low if you're sensitive, and then take more if you aren't at 100% two hours later. DO wait the full 2 hours, because it really does take that long time peak, and you may end up sick if you dose after only 1 hour (or even an hour and a half) thinking you need more when you do not.

One final point: I tried only taking 1/8 mg today because part of me is still hesitant about becoming dependent on a substance with such a long halflife, and therefore, such a long withdrawal period if I ever have to quit. This led to hours of some of the deepest depression I've felt in years, which was completely alleviated when I took the rest of my dose. If you're experiencing new depression when you begin Suboxone, you may not be taking enough.

Thank you so much to everyone who replied or messaged me with assistance and words of encouragement. I'll continue to come back to Bluelight periodically to share any relevant updates regarding my use of Suboxone and my addiction recovery.

That is awesome to start @ .25mg, I hear how people are overprescribed for sub all the time. My doc started me at 12mg but I quickly (couple months) tapered to 4mg. 4mg to .25 was another journey. Jumping off 2mg sucked, but jumping off .25 was easy for me. You might be a lot different though given your tolerance. For comparison, I guess I would take an average of 2 OC 80's a day to keep me going.

You're absolutely right about dosing too soon on sub, the first time I took it was one of the worst withdrawals I ever had by taking it too soon coming off methadone. I was taking 80mg of methadone and barely waited 24 hours to take 6mg of sub, wasn't pleasant.

I don't know about the depression and not taking enough. Sure, it has anti-anxiety properties but I think there is something to be said for starting sub and quitting a lifestyle of chasing dope, it can be lonely and just a shock to your system. This might not be the case for the many who use sub to bridge the gaps.

 

[bukweat]

Its great you found an understanding doctor. Most want to prescribe a blockade dose of 16 mgs. Which most everyone knows is unnecessary. Good luck.