Bupe Suboxone Conspiracy to ruin addicts teeth

[DeathIndustrial88]

This post is part fun / part serious. I also think it needs to be discussed.

I've been on Suboxone for about 8 years now. Originally started with generic subutex while I waited for insurance to cover brand name Suboxone. And then eventually insurance quit covering brand name & switched to generic only.

I've noticed that EVERY SINGLE Suboxone generic contains artificial flavorings, citric acid & artificial colors. All which lead to tooth loss & tooth decay.


Yet, Subutex & generic subutex generally contains no colorings, no citric acid & no artificial flavorings. While also happening to be stigmatized & wrongly professed to be a "more abusable" version of buprenorphine. Which we all know isn't true.


Anyone who knows even a modicum of pharmacology knows that the naloxone in Suboxone/Generic Suboxone is completely pointless.


So why is Suboxone & it's generics loaded with shit that rots your teeth? I could ALMOST understand if buprenorphine had a real foul taste, but as some one who's once had generic mono-bupe, it has almost no taste at all really. So why are they doing this?


I brought this up to my sub doc recently in hopes she would switch me to mono buprenorphine & I could save my teeth, but she basically said there was nothing we could do about it. Which means either she's afraid to prescribe mono-buprenorphine or just didn't care about my concerns. I know she knows the naloxone is pointless. but perhaps the DEA harasses doctors more if they prescribe subutex? I don't understand the problem of switching me.


There is absolutely no reason why Suboxone generics need to be loaded with flavorings. These are adults taking these medicines, not children, so why do I need "artificial lemon-lime flavoring" with my meds? It's really irritating.


At this point I truly believe it's being done to ruin the dental health of addicts, which can then also be used to further perpetuate stereotypes that "opioids ruin your looks". I've been on at least 7 different types of generic suboxone & every single one was loaded with teeth-rotting additives.


Anyone else ever think about this?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Who benefit's from the extra additive's, the producer, that should give you a clue. Bet they more expensive then the plain tasteless filler's that are in Buprenorphine.

Then the second question arises is there a connection between Suboxone and the producer of the additive's you mentioned rotting your teeth.
I am not a conspiracy thinker Btw but could become one.
Even as kid I hated those fake Banana taste in children's sirup medication. What's wrong with a pill?

As if someone who has poked needles in bloodvessels cares about a little bitter taste.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Who benefit's from the extra additive's, the producer, that should give you a clue. Bet they more expensive then the plain tasteless filler's that are in Buprenorphine.

Then the second question arises is there a connection between Suboxone and the producer of the additive's you mentioned rotting your teeth.
I am not a conspiracy thinker Btw but could become one.
Even as kid I hated those fake Banana taste in children's sirup medication. What's wrong with a pill?

As if someone who has poked needles in bloodvessels cares about a little bitter taste.

This is true too, the extra additives allow them to charge more for it.

As some one who's tried the little white generic subutex pills, buprenorphine barely has a taste. Or at least didn't have a taste that was so bothersome that I'd rather rot my teeth over it.


I've been seeing ads on Fakebook about the class action lawsuit against the makers of Suboxone & I already see people in the comments blaming the buprenorphine on their rotten teeth & not the additives. Which also makes me wonder why the fuck the makers of Suboxone have a class action lawsuit for causing dental problems, yet the generics of Suboxone ALSO contain those additives that ruin teeth... Makes no sense. I know part of the lawsuit was due to them keeping their prices too high & trying to hold the patent to the bupe/naloxone combo, but it's also compensating people for dental problems. So if they're aware that the additives in brand name Suboxone are causing dental issues, then why do they continue to let the generics be sold with the same shit in it?


It might be less of a "conspiracy" and more so just negligence & not giving a fuck about buprenorphine users. But we do know that the makers of Suboxone also conspired to claim that Subutex was more abuse-able, so that their brand of bupe would be preferred by doctors & that was false. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that they (and the generic companies) conspired to ruin people's dental health for profit either. Which then just brings me back around to my previous question, why they allow the generics to go out with the same ingredients? It just blows my mind.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

This is true too, the extra additives allow them to charge more for it.


It might be less of a "conspiracy" and more so just negligence & not giving a fuck about buprenorphine users. But we do know that the makers of Suboxone also conspired to claim that Subutex was more abuse-able & that was false. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that they (and the generic companies) conspired to ruin people's dental health for profit either. Which then just brings me back around to my previous question, why they allow the generics to go out with the same ingredients? It just blows my mind.

Someone is making extra money. Can you gel cap them?

And often like Ritalin is also produced generic same product different brand and under the substance name. So why do Psychiatrist's prescribe Ritalin brand, my first boxes were. Then the refill's the pharmacist gave after were generic's, but from the same factory. Identical.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Someone is making extra money. Can you gel cap them?

And often like Ritalin is also produced generic same product different brand and under the substance name. So why do Psychiatrist's prescribe Ritalin brand, my first boxes were. Then the refill's the pharmacist gave after were generic's, but from the same factory. Identical.

Gel capping would help, except subs gotta be taken under the tongue or put on a mucus membrane in order to work. So it's generally taken sublingually, which also puts it in close proximity to your teeth unfortunately.


I've been prescribed brand name drugs as well & then switched to the generics, usually because insurance is unwilling to pay for the brand name after awhile. since it's more expensive. Some times you can get your doctor to tell the insurance that it's medically necessary to be on the brand name, but I've never bothered to try & fight back with these damn insurance companies.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Gel capping would help, except subs gotta be taken under the tongue or put on a mucus membrane in order to work. So it's generally taken sublingually, which also puts it in close proximity to your teeth unfortunately.


I've been prescribed brand name drugs as well & then switched to the generics, usually because insurance is unwilling to pay for the brand name after awhile. since it's more expensive. Some times you can get your doctor to tell the insurance that it's medically necessary to be on the brand name, but I've never bothered to try & fight back with these damn insurance companies.

On a positive note there is in the whole Nl one pharmacist that makes his own MethylAmine to produce dextro-Amphetamine. Otherwise its Methylphenidate. To bad only one, my insurance company, cover's the payment. And there are a lot of other company's from which you can choose. The National Health Insurance needed some updating but wasn't so bad. Now we even have medical shortages. Because all production is shifted to foreign situated company's.

Oh and I forgot the ammount of time spend on administration instead of health care since the privitation increased.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

I very much doubt it's intentional lol.
Methadone apparently does the same thing, though.
It's sugar-free now which probably helps.
Having said that, I had a tooth removed in December due to a dental abscess and was told I need SEVEN more removed*
Probably the bulimia, not the methadone, though.

*4 are wisdom teeth, at least and the others are all molars

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I very much doubt it's intentional lol.
Methadone apparently does the same thing, though.
It's sugar-free now which probably helps.
Having said that, I had a tooth removed in December due to a dental abscess and was told I need SEVEN more removed*
Probably the bulimia, not the methadone, though.

*4 are molars, at least and the others are all molars

Maybe not intentional, but clearly by negligence.

I mean if they've acknowledge that Suboxone destroys your teeth due to citric acid, artificial flavors & colorings & are even willing to compensate people for it, then why continue to let the generic companies produce the very same exact thing, unless by negligence or intention.

Like Emkee said though, the more ingredients they put in there, the more they can charge for it. So if they know it ruins your teeth but put it in there anyway for profits, then that would definitely be intentional. And it's not out of the ordinary for companies to put profit over public health, especially in America.

The only way opioids themselves would really affect your teeth is by causing dry mouth. But the crap they put in Suboxone/generic subs actually changes the PH in your mouth & causes the enamel to become weakened.

I've always sort of prided myself in having nice teeth & only within the last year, I've had one tooth break completely in half & have had the enamel chip off of one of my front teeth. Seeing a dentist in July (hopefully). Been waiting since January to get in there But im sure as long as I'm taking generic subs every day, I will potentially keep destroying my teeth further.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I very much doubt it's intentional lol.
Methadone apparently does the same thing, though.
It's sugar-free now which probably helps.
Having said that, I had a tooth removed in December due to a dental abscess and was told I need SEVEN more removed*
Probably the bulimia, not the methadone, though.

*4 are wisdom teeth, at least and the others are all molars

Glad you survived the abcess. Been there, pretty dangerous i was told.

Stimulant's also cause dry mouth but never gave me trouble. The Bruxisme i had since kid did.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Maybe not intentional, but clearly by negligence.

I mean if they've acknowledge that Suboxone destroys your teeth due to citric acid, artificial flavors & colorings & are even willing to compensate people for it, then why continue to let the generic companies produce the very same exact thing, unless by negligence or intention.

Like Emkee said though, the more ingredients they put in there, the more they can charge for it. So if they know it ruins your teeth but put it in there anyway for profits, then that would definitely be intentional. And it's not out of the ordinary for companies to put profit over public health, especially in America.

The only way opioids themselves would really affect your teeth is by causing dry mouth. But the crap they put in Suboxone/generic subs actually changes the PH in your mouth & causes the enamel to become weakened.

I've always sort of prided myself in having nice teeth & only within the last year, I've had one tooth break completely in half & have had the enamel chip off of one of my front teeth. Seeing a dentist in July (hopefully). Been waiting since January to get in there But im sure as long as I'm taking generic subs every day, I will potentially keep destroying my teeth further.

Damn, that sucks.

I hear ya about the teeth. I was always complimented on my smile and then within 10 days half a tooth broke off and two fillings fell out :/
I've had extensive dental work that was like "cosmetic" I guess to make them white and look healthy again, but having so many removed is so depressing. All of them are my very back teeth at least.

I never knew in the U.S. they could literally charge you based on how many ingredients were in meds. You'd think you'd only have to pay for the active ingredient(s).

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Glad you survived the abcess. Been there, pretty dangerous i was told.

Stimulant's also cause dry mouth but never gave me trouble. The Bruxisme i had since kid did.

Like 7 of my meds cause dry mouth. I can't go literally 5 minutes without sipping a drink.

Yeah, they can be dangerous. I'm an insulin-dependant diabetic and (any illness can, really, but especially infections, especially serious ones like an abscess) the abscess triggered diabetic ketoacidosis which can be fatal.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Damn, that sucks.

I hear ya about the teeth. I was always complimented on my smile and then within 10 days half a tooth broke off and two fillings fell out :/
I've had extensive dental work that was like "cosmetic" I guess to make them white and look healthy again, but having so many removed is so depressing. All of them are my very back teeth at least.

I never knew in the U.S. they could literally charge you based on how many ingredients were in meds. You'd think you'd only have to pay for the active ingredient(s).

Yeah, for example the citric acid & artificial flavorings would be bought by the pharma company in bulk to use in the production of their pills. And then they'll tack that added cost onto the consumer by charging more for it. It's probably only a few cents per person or per pill, since citric acid & artificial flavors are pretty inexpensive. But that adds up over time into thousands, if not millions of extra dollars. Not to mention they're completely useless ingredients that don't need to be in there.


I have like 7 holes in my teeth now as well, so I'm sure I'm not far behind you as far as needing all kinds of things done to fix my teeth.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Yeah, for example the citric acid & artificial flavorings would be bought by the pharma company in bulk to use in the production of their pills. And then they'll tack that added cost onto the consumer by charging more for it. It's probably only a few cents per person or per pill, since citric acid & artificial flavors are pretty inexpensive. But that adds up over time into thousands, if not millions of extra dollars. Not to mention they're completely useless ingredients that don't need to be in there.


I have like 7 holes in my teeth now as well, so I'm sure I'm not far behind you as far as needing all kinds of things done to fix my teeth.

Damn. I'm sure I actually used an online comparison/calculator thing and it worked out that my meds - if I lived in the U.S. - would WELL exceed $1000/month. Like $1500 or something. I assume that's without insurance. In the UK there's a flat rate for all meds so basically whatever the prescription is for or how many (so, choosing random things here, 28 x 500mg Amoxicillin, 100 x Neurontin 800mg and 360 bottles of Ensure* would all cost the same). It's the equivalent of about $14 regardless of generic or brand, what the drug is, how many pills you get etc.
Or, for some people (like anyone over 60) every pill/prescription is free. I'm on 18 prescription meds and all of them are free because I'm on Insulin and if you're on certain meds that are considered "life-saving" (such as insulin) not only is that med free, but everything you get prescribed is free.

*A real prescription I got once. Had to have two random strong-looking dudes I saw at the pharmacy cart all the ensure to my car for me as the reason I needed them was I had malnutrition and weighed 91lbs lol

Hope you at least don't have to pay for the dental work? Or are able to get a type of suboxone/subutex/buprenorphine that is more dentally-friendly! I had to pay for my dental work as it was considered cosmetic (had it done because I was ashamed to smile at anyone not because of pain) but it was still partially covered by NHS so it was the equivalent of like $400 I think.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Like 7 of my meds cause dry mouth. I can't go literally 5 minutes without sipping a drink.

Yeah, they can be dangerous. I'm an insulin-dependant diabetic and (any illness can, really, but especially infections, especially serious ones like an abscess) the abscess triggered diabetic ketoacidosis which can be fatal.

The abcess in my mouth was hidden under a molar that my dentist before did a root canal on. Btw what are you sippin on every 5, please let it be a fluid devoid of acid's or sugar's (water, Tea, Coffee). And maybe a Kombucha once a day, to enhance your body's defense's and that of your gut. Mainly as treat to replace SoFtDrInK's, they mean hard drink's 0.0%. Don't they have a gel for dry mouth that work's a bit longer?

The new dentist after moving was leagues above the former. She told me rootcanal's were old fashion, dangerous and in general not done anymore. When she pulled the hollow molar with it came an intact abcess the size of a thumb. Both the dentist and assitent got a whitey. So that is was not good was obvious. Felt so relieving, like giving birth to a green larve.
Later on she told would it have bursted it would go straight to my head. And then your situation gets real bad, death being the worst.

Damn, that sucks.

I hear ya about the teeth. I was always complimented on my smile and then within 10 days half a tooth broke off and two fillings fell out :/
I've had extensive dental work that was like "cosmetic" I guess to make them white and look healthy again, but having so many removed is so depressing. All of them are my very back teeth at least.

I never knew in the U.S. they could literally charge you based on how many ingredients were in meds. You'd think you'd only have to pay for the active ingredient(s).

No Bruxism ?, so many people grind unknowingly. And so little dentist recognize it. As that really destroy's your teth. Stim's worsn it. As a fact the jaw muscle is the strongest in the whole human body. Sorry gentleman its not between our leg's. But in history with perfect teeth it does seem very useful.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

The abcess in my mouth was hidden under a molar that my dentist before did a root canal on. Btw what are you sippin on every 5, please let it be a fluid devoid of acid's or sugar's (water, Tea, Coffee). And maybe a Kombucha once a day, to enhance your body's defense's and that of your gut. Mainly as treat to replace SoFtDrInK's, they mean hard drink's 0.0%. Don't they have a gel for dry mouth that work's a bit longer?

The new dentist after moving was leagues above the former. She told me rootcanal's were old fashion, dangerous and in general not done anymore. When she pulled the hollow molar with it came an intact abcess the size of a thumb. Both the dentist and assitent got a whitey. So that is was not good was obvious. Felt so relieving, like giving birth to a green larve.
Later on she told would it have bursted it would go straight to my head. And then your situation gets real bad, death being the worst.


No Bruxism ?, so many people grind unknowingly. And so little dentist recognize it. As that really destroy's your teth. Stim's worsn it. As a fact the jaw muscle is the strongest in the whole human body. Sorry gentleman its not between our leg's. But in history with perfect teeth it does seem very useful.

Mostly water, sometimes coke zero (okay, a lot coke zero), sometimes tea, sometimes coffee.

Yikes, sounds like a close call with your abscess!

I did have bruxism in the form of jaw clenching rather than grinding as a teen but it was in my sleep and due to extreme stress.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Mostly water, sometimes coke zero (okay, a lot coke zero), sometimes tea, sometimes coffee.

Yikes, sounds like a close call with your abscess!

I did have bruxism in the form of jaw clenching rather than grinding as a teen but it was in my sleep and due to extreme stress.

Afaik both are part of Bruxism. And like you wrote directly related to stress, and when interpreted correct you had this before any substance use. My dentist and dental hygenist can see it at my teeth if i have been through a stressful period. I do have a mouthgard which helps.

And I clench too aswell, the grinding could specific related to the asymetrical placing of my teeth. Happens also in dreams, if I am eating.

Coke contain's Phosphoric acid which is worse then Citric acid for your teeth. And the sweetener's in it i personally don't trust. Stevia is ok.
And what you seem to not mention or not realize. Not only acid's create an corroding enviroment in your mouth. Sugar does this also, acidification in your mouth while feeding hostile bacteria.

Golden rule wait at least 45/ 60 minutes before teeth brushing after consuming thing's especially sours. Flush/ swirl water in your mouth to clean/ flush after drinking/ eating. same goes the other way around. Wait after brushing.

Choose a good toothpaste most of em have corrossive ingredient's aswell, ones that cause dry mouth like Sodium Laureth Sulphate (SLS) and Fluoride to fuck up even further.
The two super tooth paste's I encountered where one with.

"the casein protein called Casein Phosphopeptide (or CPP), which carries calcium and phosphate ions in the form of Amorphous Calcium Phosphate (or ACP)."

And one based upon Hydroxy-Apatite, both had no Fluoride or SLS as ingredient. Both on paper repair the teeth. Oh and toothpick's, not coctail pricker's!

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Afaik both are part of Bruxism. And like you wrote directly related to stress, and when interpreted correct you had this before any substance use. My dentist and dental hygenist can see it at my teeth if i have been through a stressful period. I do have a mouthgard which helps.

And I clench too aswell, the grinding could specific related to the asymetrical placing of my teeth. Happens also in dreams, if I am eating.

Coke contain's Phosphoric acid which is worse then Citric acid for your teeth. And the sweetener's in it i personally don't trust. Stevia is ok.
And what you seem to not mention or not realize. Not only acid's create an corroding enviroment in your mouth. Sugar does this also, acidification in your mouth while feeding hostile bacteria.

Golden rule wait at least 45/ 60 minutes before teeth brushing after consuming thing's especially sours. Flush/ swirl water in your mouth to clean/ flush after drinking/ eating. same goes the other way around. Wait after brushing.

Choose a good toothpaste most of em have corrossive ingredient's aswell, ones that cause dry mouth like Sodium Laureth Sulphate (SLS) and Fluoride to fuck up even further.
The two super tooth paste's I encountered where one with.

"the casein protein called Casein Phosphopeptide (or CPP), which carries calcium and phosphate ions in the form of Amorphous Calcium Phosphate (or ACP)."

And one based upon Hydroxy-Apatite, both had no Fluoride or SLS as ingredient. Both on paper repair the teeth. Oh and toothpick's, not coctail pricker's!

I in general don't believe in any "diet" type foods/drinks. LIke anything "sugar free", "low fat" or by a weight loss program brand etc. I find the concept weird that people at some point decided to start making things worse so that we could have more of them.
But generally...also (and don't judge me for quoting her, but this one thing she said is smart IMO) Paris Hilton once said "Only fat people drink diet coke" and while I'd be more tactful, I can see the truth in it and think it extends to similar products.
Coke Zero is the only instance where I don't just have the regular version of something and it's because I'm an insulin-dependant diabetic. Not type 2, it wasn't caused by diet or weight, so when you're not type 2 you just eat/drink as normal, like anyone else, and take the appropriate dose of insulin whenever you consume anything with carbs, but I don't wanna be having to inject every time I drink as well as eat...so coke zero it is, with all it's acidity, aspartame, acesulphame-k etc.

Oh and yeah, you're right, the jaw clenching (my teeth would ache so bad some mornings) was definitely bruxism. Most people don't know it can present that way as well as or instead of grinding.

I was bulimic for 11 years so I'm well used to acid-minimising stuff (stomach acid erodes TF out of your teeth).

 

[Pickledlemons]

Its not just that... Buprenorphine itself has dry mouth as side effect. Indeed, its not as bad as amphetamines obviously, but habitual use of opioids for years and decades can and does have a negative affect on teeth, I've seen it.

 

[Pickledlemons]

I in general don't believe in any "diet" type foods/drinks. LIke anything "sugar free", "low fat" or by a weight loss program brand etc. I find the concept weird that people at some point decided to start making things worse so that we could have more of them.
But generally...also (and don't judge me for quoting her, but this one thing she said is smart IMO) Paris Hilton once said "Only fat people drink diet coke" and while I'd be more tactful, I can see the truth in it and think it extends to similar products.

Here's something interesting I learned while I was on a low carb diet. Artificial sweeteners, while obviously not causing weight gain themselves can indirectly cause it by rewiring your brain to think that sweetness does not have energy content. Therefore when you do cheat day with a cake or something, you may not have the proper restraint you would have had, if you had not consumed a lot of calorie free - sweet food/drink.

Now full disclosure this was like 15 years ago so I can't remember if I got that info from a study or if it was just a hypothesis.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Here's something interesting I learned while I was on a low carb diet. Artificial sweeteners, while obviously not causing weight gain themselves can indirectly cause it by rewiring your brain to think that sweetness does not have energy content. Therefore when you do cheat day with a cake or something, you may not have the proper restraint you would have had, if you had not consumed a lot of calorie free - sweet food/drink.

Now full disclosure this was like 15 years ago so I can't remember if I got that info from a study or if it was just a hypothesis.

Artifical sweetener's that fool the tongue, and cause weight gain as result. Read that to, and it does sound logical.

That's why Stevia a long term used natural sweetener without carb's sounded a lot safer. To bad it doesn go well with Coffee. But somekind of brand making kiddie-Cola, base it upon stevia, citric acid and no Caffein. And the taste was good enough for me.