ValaisFendant
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2019
- Messages
- 16
I wanted to share a strategy that I have not seen discussed on this forum, that involves simultaneous use of suboxone and oxycodone for managing chronic pain. Most forums views those drugs as "take one or the other." Quit bupe to go back onto oxy. Start bupe to quit oxy. But there's actually a way to use both, in a manner that seems to have few side effects.
It's the closest I've found to "having your cake and eating it too" for those who want to quit the daily grind of opioids (taking them just to not feel sick), yet don't truly want to say "goodbye forever". In other words, it's a possible solution for those who would like to occasionally use full agonists for recreational purposes without it necessarily spiraling into a new habit. You can't use LARGE doses of full agonists with this method, but you can use *some*. Stop reading now if your goal is to get really high every day, because this isn't an answer for that.
Quick background. I abused full agonist opioids over a period of 3 years, originally for back pain, but eventually for the other effects, and my dose escalated and escalated. Peaking at 500mg/day of oxy equivalent before I said "enough" and decided to taper down towards 50mg/day and find a more viable long-term solution.
Anyway, the idea is as follows:
- Once you're stabilized on suboxone, keep it at a low dose each day. At MOST 2mg.
- Take a low-to-moderate dose of oxycodone on occasion whenever you need it; not every day, not throughout the day, but AT MOST every other day, or a couple times a week, or once a week. Take it as needed for breakthrough pain (or for recreational purposes, if that is your goal....)
- Wait roughly 12 hours after taking oxycodone to re-dose the suboxone
The reality is that at 2mg or less of suboxone, full agonist opioids can still get through, just at a lesser level
The other reality is that if you keep the oxycodone dose to a reasonable level (ideally 30mg or less, but it is possible to do a bit more...), then you won't go into withdrawal OR precipitated withdrawal, so long as you just wait 12 hours or so after taking the suboxone. You won't go into withdrawal because of the long half life of suboxone. And when you take the next round of suboxone roughly 12 afters taking the full agonists, you won't go into precipitated withdrawal (even though you feel no withdrawal symptoms) because there's still a lot of bupe in your system so it's not like you're knocking off a boatload of full agonists from the receptors.
Thus, you never feel unwell, because of the suboxone. But now and then, you can feel better than you do with just the suboxone alone.
It is true that the effect of full agonist opioids is lessened when on suboxone.
HOWEVER, it is also true that suboxone creates some base-level feeling of well being.
From my experience:
If, normal feeling is 0 and sky high is 10, let's say that taking 30mg of oxycodone gets you to a 7/10.
If you take 2mg of bupe, you'll be at a 4/10. If you then layer on top 30mg of oxycodone you'll be at 7/10.
So, the oxy on give you an incremental value of "3" instead of the usual "7"... but it is additive. Together you get to a similar place.
Importantly, my personal experience has been that this approach does NOT result in escalating tolerance / escalating consumption.
- The suboxone reduces cravings
- You'll be less likely to go on a binge, because if you do, you know that you'll have to go into withdrawal before re-starting the suboxone
- Your tolerance won't escalate if you actually can limit your usage to moderate doses of full agonists, 2 or 3 times a week.
EVERYONE IS WIRED DIFFERENTLY. THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. FOR ME, THE FULL AGONISTS ARE USED MOSTLY FOR BREAKTHROUGH PAIN, AND OCCASIONALLY TO HELP ME GET A MODERATE BUZZ AND RELAX. But if you are seeking a big high to "escape from reality", this approach will not work for you. You need to have balance.
THIS SOLUTION HAS BEEN BETTER FOR CHRONIC PAIN THAN ANY OTHER I HAVE FOUND. The suboxone provides base level relief. When the pain spikes, the full agonists help. And I don't find myself craving full agonist opioids the way I would have without suboxone.
For me, this discovery was life-changing, in a good way.
Thoughts are welcome.
Please be safe.
It's the closest I've found to "having your cake and eating it too" for those who want to quit the daily grind of opioids (taking them just to not feel sick), yet don't truly want to say "goodbye forever". In other words, it's a possible solution for those who would like to occasionally use full agonists for recreational purposes without it necessarily spiraling into a new habit. You can't use LARGE doses of full agonists with this method, but you can use *some*. Stop reading now if your goal is to get really high every day, because this isn't an answer for that.
Quick background. I abused full agonist opioids over a period of 3 years, originally for back pain, but eventually for the other effects, and my dose escalated and escalated. Peaking at 500mg/day of oxy equivalent before I said "enough" and decided to taper down towards 50mg/day and find a more viable long-term solution.
Anyway, the idea is as follows:
- Once you're stabilized on suboxone, keep it at a low dose each day. At MOST 2mg.
- Take a low-to-moderate dose of oxycodone on occasion whenever you need it; not every day, not throughout the day, but AT MOST every other day, or a couple times a week, or once a week. Take it as needed for breakthrough pain (or for recreational purposes, if that is your goal....)
- Wait roughly 12 hours after taking oxycodone to re-dose the suboxone
The reality is that at 2mg or less of suboxone, full agonist opioids can still get through, just at a lesser level
The other reality is that if you keep the oxycodone dose to a reasonable level (ideally 30mg or less, but it is possible to do a bit more...), then you won't go into withdrawal OR precipitated withdrawal, so long as you just wait 12 hours or so after taking the suboxone. You won't go into withdrawal because of the long half life of suboxone. And when you take the next round of suboxone roughly 12 afters taking the full agonists, you won't go into precipitated withdrawal (even though you feel no withdrawal symptoms) because there's still a lot of bupe in your system so it's not like you're knocking off a boatload of full agonists from the receptors.
Thus, you never feel unwell, because of the suboxone. But now and then, you can feel better than you do with just the suboxone alone.
It is true that the effect of full agonist opioids is lessened when on suboxone.
HOWEVER, it is also true that suboxone creates some base-level feeling of well being.
From my experience:
If, normal feeling is 0 and sky high is 10, let's say that taking 30mg of oxycodone gets you to a 7/10.
If you take 2mg of bupe, you'll be at a 4/10. If you then layer on top 30mg of oxycodone you'll be at 7/10.
So, the oxy on give you an incremental value of "3" instead of the usual "7"... but it is additive. Together you get to a similar place.
Importantly, my personal experience has been that this approach does NOT result in escalating tolerance / escalating consumption.
- The suboxone reduces cravings
- You'll be less likely to go on a binge, because if you do, you know that you'll have to go into withdrawal before re-starting the suboxone
- Your tolerance won't escalate if you actually can limit your usage to moderate doses of full agonists, 2 or 3 times a week.
EVERYONE IS WIRED DIFFERENTLY. THIS IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. FOR ME, THE FULL AGONISTS ARE USED MOSTLY FOR BREAKTHROUGH PAIN, AND OCCASIONALLY TO HELP ME GET A MODERATE BUZZ AND RELAX. But if you are seeking a big high to "escape from reality", this approach will not work for you. You need to have balance.
THIS SOLUTION HAS BEEN BETTER FOR CHRONIC PAIN THAN ANY OTHER I HAVE FOUND. The suboxone provides base level relief. When the pain spikes, the full agonists help. And I don't find myself craving full agonist opioids the way I would have without suboxone.
For me, this discovery was life-changing, in a good way.
Thoughts are welcome.
Please be safe.
