Meth Speed vs ice

[Mr. Krinkle]

I remember it as that. The bikers at Daytona Beach kept it in their "crank"cases and pulled it out to use and sell at bike week. Man, what a madhouse that was.

is that why it was called crank?

the couple times i did it, i kept saying "this stuff doesn't work" because it was nothing like coke - and it hurt to snort - so it was garbage as far as i was concerned

but yea it was a biker dude who was doing it back when i was bartending in the early 90s who i did it with - i probably was high but didn't notice it because that's how lower dose tweek works


and then there was tweek in the NYC club scene too - and that was crystal mostly - but everything you could think of was in that scene

meth bombs were rampant for a while too - those things were the worst - you're looking for an mdma high and you're tweeked instead - so for a while there, i just waited until other people ate their pills first to report back before i'd accidentally eat a meth bomb

 

[nicholson.brandon89@gmail]

I am reminded of this:

Yes big facts

 

[unodelacosa]

I'm currently in position of something sold as speed, the seller doesn't deal with ice. Yet it is clearly a methampetamine.

There's only one compound that gets referred to as methamphetamine: N-methylamphetamine.

White rocks that lack sny euphoria but have insane duration.

Good meth is typically more of a clear shard than a white rock. Indeed, what you have sounds like speed (amphetamine) and not crystal meth (methamphetamine) which checks out w/what your dealer claims.

Also meth is euphoric while speed tends to be much less so. This also checks out.

I'm guessing it's I isomer largely.

Probably a bad guess. The l-isomer doesn't have any well circulated stereospecific syntheses, and no one would intentionally set out to form just the l-isomer unless they were making Benzedrine inhalers during the early- to mid-20th century. It's either a 50/50 blend—aka: racemic mix—that results from initially synthesis from P-2-P, or it's 100% d-isomer meth made from reducing ephedrine or pseudoephedrine, which is always stereospecific. The chances you would have a mixture that is "largely" l-isomer—which, again: only good as a Bronchodilator—seem highly unlikely.

I've had more enjoyable so called speed and meth.
It is quite interesting to note how this landscape has changed.

I think you should acquire some actual meth, b/c I don't think your assumptions are correct.

 

[G_Chem]

No sourcing allowed here, please read the rules.

-GC

 

[Eligiu]

Ice is slang in australia for meth that comes in shards or rocks while speed in australia is slang for meth that is usually powdery and of much lower quality. Speed is more often used by those not wanting to be associeted with meth because they think speed is a different drug.

Speed and ice (meth) are two different drugs.

Speed is amphetamine. Ice is methamphetamines.

They are not the same substance.

Meth comes as powder, shards, rock, and wet.

Speed comes as powder, and paste.

Actual speed, as in amphetamine sulphate, is rarely seen in Australia anymore. It's basically just meth now.

I realised last week that I actually did meth for the first time when I was 15, not 21 like I thought. I was told by the person who gave me the dealers number that he sold speed, but considering how prevalent meth is and how limited sources for actual speed are, I find it difficult to imagine I as a 15 year old stumbled across a speed dealer. Like an actual speech, amphetamines not methamphetamine dealer.

I remembered that I paid the same price a point of meth costs, and that I ate it and was pretty high.

It's just my second (thought to be my first) experience with meth I immediately graduated to slamming it after not having touched it again over 6 years. Given the difference in intensity, I didn't think it could be the same drug.

 

[unodelacosa]

No sourcing allowed here, please read the rules.

-GC

To whom was that directed? I mentioned Benzedrine inhalers, and in case that's what you were talking about, don't worry – that product has been discontinued for decades. No one produces Benzedrine inhalers, and any similar products around today no longer contain any amphetamine isomers.

Speed and ice (meth) are two different drugs. Speed is amphetamine. Ice is methamphetamines.

To be fair, the original "ice" referred to 4-methylaminorex. Also, "methamphetamine" is not plural.

They are not the same substance.

Correct. Amphetamine is a primary amine while n-methylamphetamine is a secondary amine. Pharmacodynamically both amphetamine and methamphetamine are triple monoamine releasers acting on dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. The main difference is: meth is ~15x more serotonergic than the primary amine, amphetamine. This accounts for the differences in euphoric effect. I try to warn people that meth is a recreational stimulant while amphetamine (Dexedrine, Adderall, Vyvanse, etc.) is a productivity-boosting stimulant. While either can be used for the other's purpose, they're best suited at what they're best at, respectively.

Actual speed, as in amphetamine sulphate, is rarely seen in Australia anymore. It's basically just meth now.

I don't doubt this as trade routes to Australia for cocaine from South America has ramped up in the past few decades, and also considering the influence of Asian transnational criminal organizations and how much of the world's supply of methamphetamine is made in countries like N. Korea and Myanmar… it's really not a surprise to hear this about the Australian meth market.

I realised last week that I actually did meth for the first time when I was 15, not 21 like I thought. I was told by the person who gave me the dealers number that he sold speed, but considering how prevalent meth is and how limited sources for actual speed are, I find it difficult to imagine I as a 15 year old stumbled across a speed dealer. Like an actual speech, amphetamines not methamphetamine dealer.

There's no real way to know now, but it's not actually all that hard to imagine. Starting from P-2-P, it's possible to use ammonia (instead of methylamine, for example) in a reductive amination to produce amphetamine and not methamphetamine. This forms a salt easiest with sulfuric acid, but it's still fairly hygroscopic. At any rate, it's not at all impossible; be careful not to make too many assumptions.

I remembered that I paid the same price a point of meth costs, and that I ate it and was pretty high.

It's just my second (thought to be my first) experience with meth I immediately graduated to slamming it after not having touched it again over 6 years. Given the difference in intensity, I didn't think it could be the same drug.

I think you're forgetting to account for the rather dramatic difference in routes of administration there, my guy. Oral ingestion and intravenous injection are two very different experiences with most drugs. Don't you think this might have influenced your thinking on the matter?

 

[G_Chem]

To whom was that directed? I mentioned Benzedrine inhalers, and in case that's what you were talking about, don't worry – that product has been discontinued for decades. No one produces Benzedrine inhalers, and any similar products around today no longer contain any amphetamine isomers.


To be fair, the original "ice" referred to 4-methylaminorex. Also, "methamphetamine" is not plural.


Correct. Amphetamine is a primary amine while n-methylamphetamine is a secondary amine. Pharmacodynamically both amphetamine and methamphetamine are triple monoamine releasers acting on dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. The main difference is: meth is ~15x more serotonergic than the primary amine, amphetamine. This accounts for the differences in euphoric effect. I try to warn people that meth is a recreational stimulant while amphetamine (Dexedrine, Adderall, Vyvanse, etc.) is a productivity-boosting stimulant. While either can be used for the other's purpose, they're best suited at what they're best at, respectively.


I don't doubt this as trade routes to Australia for cocaine from South America has ramped up in the past few decades, and also considering the influence of Asian transnational criminal organizations and how much of the world's supply of methamphetamine is made in countries like N. Korea and Myanmar… it's really not a surprise to hear this about the Australian meth market.


There's no real way to know now, but it's not actually all that hard to imagine. Starting from P-2-P, it's possible to use ammonia (instead of methylamine, for example) in a reductive amination to produce amphetamine and not methamphetamine. This forms a salt easiest with sulfuric acid, but it's still fairly hygroscopic. At any rate, it's not at all impossible; be careful not to make too many assumptions.


I think you're forgetting to account for the rather dramatic difference in routes of administration there, my guy. Oral ingestion and intravenous injection are two very different experiences with most drugs. Don't you think this might have influenced your thinking on the matter?

Not you

-GC

 

[Eligiu]

To whom was that directed? I mentioned Benzedrine inhalers, and in case that's what you were talking about, don't worry – that product has been discontinued for decades. No one produces Benzedrine inhalers, and any similar products around today no longer contain any amphetamine isomers.


To be fair, the original "ice" referred to 4-methylaminorex. Also, "methamphetamine" is not plural.


Correct. Amphetamine is a primary amine while n-methylamphetamine is a secondary amine. Pharmacodynamically both amphetamine and methamphetamine are triple monoamine releasers acting on dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. The main difference is: meth is ~15x more serotonergic than the primary amine, amphetamine. This accounts for the differences in euphoric effect. I try to warn people that meth is a recreational stimulant while amphetamine (Dexedrine, Adderall, Vyvanse, etc.) is a productivity-boosting stimulant. While either can be used for the other's purpose, they're best suited at what they're best at, respectively.


I don't doubt this as trade routes to Australia for cocaine from South America has ramped up in the past few decades, and also considering the influence of Asian transnational criminal organizations and how much of the world's supply of methamphetamine is made in countries like N. Korea and Myanmar… it's really not a surprise to hear this about the Australian meth market.


There's no real way to know now, but it's not actually all that hard to imagine. Starting from P-2-P, it's possible to use ammonia (instead of methylamine, for example) in a reductive amination to produce amphetamine and not methamphetamine. This forms a salt easiest with sulfuric acid, but it's still fairly hygroscopic. At any rate, it's not at all impossible; be careful not to make too many assumptions.


I think you're forgetting to account for the rather dramatic difference in routes of administration there, my guy. Oral ingestion and intravenous injection are two very different experiences with most drugs. Don't you think this might have influenced your thinking on the matter?

My phone autocorrected it, I know it isn't plural lol.

I'm not making assumptions. It is nearly impossible based on the city I live in in Australia that j bought speed. It was (until very recently) the meth capital of the country. I highly doubt I managed to find one of the few dealers selling speed.

But again, I paid the price I would have for a point of meth, and that's what I got. I would have paid different for speed, because it's got a different price, not the exact same. Meth is so prevalent here that 12 year olds are shooting it up outside shopping centres (my support worker witnessed this and told me about it because he was so shocked at what he saw).

I don't know anyone who has been able to find actual speed for, well, as long as I've been using drugs (12). The first time I (thought) I saw meth I was 18, and a guy was smoking it at my brother's 21st. People just don't do speed here. It's just meth. It's easier to find than weed.

 

[unodelacosa]

I'm not making assumptions. It is nearly impossible based on the city I live in in Australia that j bought speed. It was (until very recently) the meth capital of the country. I highly doubt I managed to find one of the few dealers selling speed.

Oh I agree with you; let's not forget: the same black market exists in the U.S. – it's all meth, no amp. Big pharma has that market on lock.

But again, I paid the price I would have for a point of meth, and that's what I got. I would have paid different for speed, because it's got a different price, not the exact same. Meth is so prevalent here that 12 year olds are shooting it up outside shopping centres (my support worker witnessed this and told me about it because he was so shocked at what he saw).

To clarify, you're offering third person hearsay testimony about an experience your "support worker" alleges occurred and extrapolating it out to an implication that all Australian pre-teens are strung out on crystal meth, shooting it up wantonly, in public, across the entire country from Brisbane to Perth, just outside your nearest shopping centre. And how'd she know they were exactly 12-years-old anyway? I'd be a little dubious of this report if I were you.

I don't know anyone who has been able to find actual speed for, well, as long as I've been using drugs (12). The first time I (thought) I saw meth I was 18, and a guy was smoking it at my brother's 21st. People just don't do speed here. It's just meth. It's easier to find than weed.

How about prescription amphetamine, d-amphetamine (Dexedrine), Adderall, Vyvanse, and you know, shit like that? Is it prescribed much in Australia? Because it certainly is in the U.S. – seems like every generation from millennials forward is prescribed Adderall, Vyvanse, and/or Ritalin.

 

[cletusSamboy]

Speed and ice (meth) are two different drugs.

Speed is amphetamine. Ice is methamphetamines.

They are not the same substance.

Meth comes as powder, shards, rock, and wet.

Speed comes as powder, and paste.

Actual speed, as in amphetamine sulphate, is rarely seen in Australia anymore. It's basically just meth now.

I realised last week that I actually did meth for the first time when I was 15, not 21 like I thought. I was told by the person who gave me the dealers number that he sold speed, but considering how prevalent meth is and how limited sources for actual speed are, I find it difficult to imagine I as a 15 year old stumbled across a speed dealer. Like an actual speech, amphetamines not methamphetamine dealer.

I remembered that I paid the same price a point of meth costs, and that I ate it and was pretty high.

It's just my second (thought to be my first) experience with meth I immediately graduated to slamming it after not having touched it again over 6 years. Given the difference in intensity, I didn't think it could be the same drug.

Your location depends on what drug speed refers to.

Ask for speed in europe and you'll likely get amp of some sort.

Ask for speed in aus and you'll usually get meth in the form of powder or rocked up powder, paste or small looking shards and crystals that are either dry or wet. You may even get rocks that kinda look like ice but may or may not be smokeable. If the whizz is smokeable it's usually weak. All meth basically. Very rare to get amp when asking for speed in aus unless you look on the darknet.

Ask for meth in aus and you'll usually get clear or cloudy shards or crystals of various sizes that burn pretty clean and tend to be of high purity.

Back before the early 2000s asking for speed in aus would likely get you amphetamine.

This is ime.

 

[Eligiu]

Oh I agree with you; let's not forget: the same black market exists in the U.S. – it's all meth, no amp. Big pharma has that market on lock.


To clarify, you're offering third person hearsay testimony about an experience your "support worker" alleges occurred and extrapolating it out to an implication that all Australian pre-teens are strung out on crystal meth, shooting it up wantonly, in public, across the entire country from Brisbane to Perth, just outside your nearest shopping centre. And how'd she know they were exactly 12-years-old anyway? I'd be a little dubious of this report if I were you.


How about prescription amphetamine, d-amphetamine (Dexedrine), Adderall, Vyvanse, and you know, shit like that? Is it prescribed much in Australia? Because it certainly is in the U.S. – seems like every generation from millennials forward is prescribed Adderall, Vyvanse, and/or Ritalin.

Well, given he brought it up to me because he knows I shoot up, and he was wondering what he could have done to help them when they asked to bum a dart off him and his questions about how it could have happened to people that young because it's not exactly commonplace (although if you go to rural communities it is actually not uncommon) for me to suggest to him, based off friends who grew up in foster care, I suggested that they were foster kids that the drug gangs recruited and have given drugs to and then encouraged their addictions.

I've been prescribed dexamphetamine, for narcolepsy and ADHD. I had to go on a management plan due to my prior history of substance use but for people with ADHD or narcolepsy with no history, not hard to get at all. My brother was diagnosed and prescribed ritalin within maybe a month. Perhaps not as widely as the US but yeah, not uncommon. As I found out though if you're drug dependant and they find out you have used, they'll cut you off quickly enough. Now I need to try and get it back.

 

[Blueytwo]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this informative thread. I have fond memories of what was called 'speed' in Australia in the early 1990s. It was both manageable in terms of not being too addictive (everything's relative of course - I was only an occasional user) and in the sense that thoughts remained coherent - it was fine for use while writing university essays or doing household chores, etc. I found this thread because I was trying to figure out what that's now called in Australia. I guess it was amphetamine, and sadly it sounds like it's not really around any more. Odd that there's no demand for it - I am not sure I could trust myself to achieve the same focus/flow state of mind with the ultra-euphoric 'ice' (meth).

 

[unodelacosa]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this informative thread. I have fond memories of what was called 'speed' in Australia in the early 1990s. It was both manageable in terms of not being too addictive (everything's relative of course - I was only an occasional user) and in the sense that thoughts remained coherent - it was fine for use while writing university essays or doing household chores, etc. I found this thread because I was trying to figure out what that's now called in Australia. I guess it was amphetamine, and sadly it sounds like it's not really around any more. Odd that there's no demand for it - I am not sure I could trust myself to achieve the same focus/flow state of mind with the ultra-euphoric 'ice' (meth).

So I generally advise people that meth is a recreational stimulant while amphetamine (incl. Adderall, Dexedrine, and Vyvanse) is a productivity stim. I like to half-joke that this is evident when considering which side won WWII and the notion that the Allies were on amphetamine while the Axis powers took meth (e.g.: "Pervitin").

Yes, generally "speed" = amphetamine. Qualitatively, if one is very disciplined in taking appropriate doses of methamphetamine, it can substitute decently if the RoA is oral ingestion. Vaporizing or injecting meth makes it easy to take more than needed and slip into a state of recreational stimulation that will become counterproductive. This is why meth is better suited for partying/recreational use and/or sex marathons. But when there's a need to Get Shit Done for reals, it's unwise to take too much meth. Meanwhile, if one tries taking as high of a dose of amphetamine, one will feel like absolute, skin-crawling, shit-balls. So meth's capacity for a euphoric response at higher doses is certainly much greater than the capacity of its primary amine, amphetamine.

Personally, I consider meth to be a much smoother high, but not everyone is equipped to handle it the same way, I will note. And yet there is certainly still demand for amphetamine. I think in the U.S., this demand is pretty much met/accounted for by sales of Adderall, Dexedrine, and Vyvanse, although currently there is a drought as the legal supply was crippled and diminished as a side-effect of the COVID-19 pandemic lockdown. So it goes.

 

[Blueytwo]

Qualitatively, if one is very disciplined in taking appropriate doses of methamphetamine, it can substitute decently if the RoA is oral ingestion.

Thanks, this is interesting, I had been wondering about that since I'm keen for something along those lines. Since posting this I have come across someone who provides 5mg dextroamphetamine tabs - presumably diverted prescription ADHD meds. They work out around twice the cost per mg as meth (but maybe ultimately the same since they're presumably about 100%).

Also, lol re allies vs axis. Makes me think of this sketch

 

[unodelacosa]

They work out around twice the cost per mg as meth (but maybe ultimately the same since they're presumably about 100%).

I often point out to people that when Adderalls are sold for $1/mg, that means amphetamine is going for $1,000/gram. Compared to meth prices virtually anywhere, meth is far cheaper. Of course, we're comparing pharmaceutical purity drugs to street drugs, but still… that's a huge price disparity.

 

[Blueytwo]

I often point out to people that when Adderalls are sold for $1/mg, that means amphetamine is going for $1,000/gram. Compared to meth prices virtually anywhere, meth is far cheaper. Of course, we're comparing pharmaceutical purity drugs to street drugs, but still… that's a huge price disparity.

especially when you consider the main costs for meth arise from the illegality.. making amp through official channels must cost bugger all

 

[Eligiu]

Although everybody should be dubious about @Eligiu given his incomprehensible faith in the intellectual worth of Standpoint Theory in understanding large scale social problems … if one is not a nitpicking asshat smugly diminishing his larger claims about Australia's meth epidemic by wasting time finding and italicising obviously and intentionally hyperbolic indefinite pronouns in posts one could productively spend time improving one’s erudition by reading the official 4 volume report of the The NSW Government’s 2020 Special Commission of Inquiry into the Drug ‘Ice’.

The points made by Eligiu are actually not as hyperbolic as they read here once you‘ve read it - or just dipped into a chapter or two - at random try Chapter 23 of Volume 4 beginning pp 1015..and say Chapter 27 of Volume 4 beginning 1093. It’ll take 20 mins tops to see @Eligiu is not far off the mark.

I don't actually know what standpoint theory is. I had to google it and I haven't read much, so I'm still not sure of what it means. I more lean into strain theory, which has its own flaws.

But yeah, basically my point was that I have a support worker (who is actually a guy not a girl as the person you quoted stated. Not all support workers are women, they managed to extrapolate that point well, as I'm also a support worker an a man myself) who witnessed two children who he said couldn't have been much older than 12, shooting up outside one of the largest shopping centres in my city on a Thursday or Friday night. I don't recall which.

I was initially confused as to how this would possibllly occur, given that that is an absurd age to begin shooting up, but then I remembered my friends who have spent a lot of time in foster care, and my role as a volunteer working with children in foster care and remembered that it's not nearly a far fetched claim as I would think.

I obviously wasn't saying that 12 year old children are shooting up all over the country on every shopping centre staircase, but I've also worked with teenagers in criminal justice settings and a lot of them say they started at 12-14 too, so it isn't, to me, that unreasonable to believe especially from certain demographics. It was a statement that 'if even kids this young have been seen doing this, then it clearly is a wide scale problem' more than anything else. Which is it, which anyone can see if they work in communities where the drug is more common to be taken (foster care, Aboriginal communities, LGBT communities) and if you do some research, which I did as part of my law degree often as this was an area of interest.

Plus, he (SW) has really zero reason to lie to me about this. He was really upset seeing it because they came up to him and asked for a cigarette from him and he gave them both one, then he tried to ask them some questions and said they both got spooked. He asked me what he should have done and I said that honestly telling them there was a needle exchange just round the corner from that shopping centre would have been the best idea, but he tried his hardest.

I read one of the inquires on ice when I was doing my criminal justice and sentencing courses at university, and yeah as you say - if you read these they are very informative on the point that my hyperbolic statements are not as hyperbolic as they seem.

 

[Xorkoth]

Hey guys reminder to please keep the personal attacks and name-calling out of things. It's really not necessary to get your point across, and it's against the BLUA, so... please. Thanks!

 

[unodelacosa]

if one is not a nitpicking asshat smugly diminishing his larger claims

– that's hilarious. "Asshat" is a great term. Btw, is that you, "Atomic_Decay"?

about Australia's meth epidemic by wasting time finding and italicising obviously and intentionally hyperbolic indefinite pronouns in posts one could productively spend time improving one’s erudition by reading the official 4 volume report of the The NSW Government’s 2020 Special Commission of Inquiry into the Drug ‘Ice’.

I hear ya chirpin'. Just relax. While I appreciate your expansive vocabulary, I think there's some tone not coming through text or something on my part. I genuinely did not mean to come across condescending, snide, sardonic, or otherwise shitty. That's probably my fault. Please don't be offended. I assure you, there's no need for name-calling.

Also, I'm not Australian and have no desire to read lengthy reports from the NSW Govt.'s 2020 Special Commission. While that sounds like a riveting read, I'll entrust that joy and "erudition" entirely to your care and attention. And I guess to your other post asking about how many Australians are present on BL, I've always felt like the Australians here have a very "felt" presence, even if the actual numbers are lower than other nationalities. I've attributed this to the site's origins and I occasionally even adjust my English spellings accordingly at times, e.g., writing "organise" instead of "organize" or "colour" instead of "color". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Anyway forgive me if I've struck a note of annoyance with you. Was never the intention.