Meth Speed vs ice

[cletusSamboy]

In australia most street speed is cut to shit meth while ice (crystal meth) tends to be high quality meth. The question is why can I smoke half a gram of speed but never feel as wired as smoking 20mg of ice despite consuming more meth in that amount of speed. That amount of speed will keep me awake much longer than that amount of ice due to the higher amount of meth consumed in half a g but the actual initial high off that small amount of ice is a lot more intense. What gives? Is it due to meth in ice being absorbed much more efficiently than the meth in speed?

 

[Vagabond696]

I'm confused.

Ice is slang for meth. So what you're saying doesn't make a lot of sense and I want some of what you're having.

 

[cletusSamboy]

I'm confused.

Ice is slang for meth. So what you're saying doesn't make a lot of sense and I want some of what you're having.

Ice is slang in australia for meth that comes in shards or rocks while speed in australia is slang for meth that is usually powdery and of much lower quality. Speed is more often used by those not wanting to be associeted with meth because they think speed is a different drug.

 

[Vagabond696]

Ice is slang in australia for meth that comes in shards or rocks while speed in australia is slang for meth that is usually powdery and of much lower quality. Speed is more often used by those not wanting to be associeted with meth because they think speed is a different drug.

I know this because I also live in Aus. But now I get ya.
With speed I tend to take it up the nose for a better rush.

 

[cletusSamboy]

I know this because I also live in Aus. But now I get ya.
With speed I tend to take it up the nose for a better rush.

Yeah I was just wondering why even a large amount of smoked speed (half a g) will never get me high like a modest 20-30mg of ice does. I mean I've obviously have consumed more from the speed due to it keeping my awake much longer than that small amount of ice. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Vagabond696]

Yeah I was just wondering why even a large amount of smoked speed (half a g) will never get me high like a modest 20-30mg of ice does. I mean I've obviously have consumed more from the speed due to it keeping my awake much longer than that small amount of ice. Doesn't make sense to me.

Different batches will always be different quality I suppose.

 

[Kaden_Nite]

Your speed might be racemic (mix of levo and dextro isomers), hence being powdery and cut to fuck while your ice is more likely straight dextro. Racemic seems to hit harder at first, wear off a lot quicker, or seem to at least. Speed always felt much more physical; like pins and needles, goosebumps kind of thing rather than the smooth on the muscles feeling of clean crystal.

Most of the speed I got was either wet or in cheap pills. Hardly ever smokable (turned into disgusting black tar from all the impurities). I have had stuff sold as 'smokable speed' and can't say it was markedly different than ice.

Who the fuck knows though, haven't heard anyone compare speed and ice for over ten years.

 

[cletusSamboy]

Your speed might be racemic (mix of levo and dextro isomers), hence being powdery and cut to fuck while your ice is more likely straight dextro. Racemic seems to hit harder at first, wear off a lot quicker, or seem to at least. Speed always felt much more physical; like pins and needles, goosebumps kind of thing rather than the smooth on the muscles feeling of clean crystal.

Most of the speed I got was either wet or in cheap pills. Hardly ever smokable (turned into disgusting black tar from all the impurities). I have had stuff sold as 'smokable speed' and can't say it was markedly different than ice.

Who the fuck knows though, haven't heard anyone compare speed and ice for over ten years.

Eating speed always seemed stronger than smoking it for some reason. Seems like the smokable speed never gets me higher than 10mg of ice will no matter how much I smoke.

 

[Vagabond696]

Eating speed always seemed stronger than smoking it for some reason. Seems like the smokable speed never gets me higher than 10mg of ice will no matter how much I smoke.

I've noticed the same thing. Speed is definitely best consumed via mouth, nose or up bum.

 

[Angus12]

Off subject but correct me if I’m wrong. Most of y’all’s Crystal is being imported into the country from Thailand/Myanmar? Also, it’s pseudo not p2p right?

 

[cletusSamboy]

Off subject but correct me if I’m wrong. Most of y’all’s Crystal is being imported into the country from Thailand/Myanmar? Also, it’s pseudo not p2p right?

Yes I believe our crystal comes from se asia mainly. Dunno what process is used but I believe d-meth is the staple.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Off subject but correct me if I’m wrong. Most of y’all’s Crystal is being imported into the country from Thailand/Myanmar? Also, it’s pseudo not p2p right?

The percentage of P2P in the Aussie market is starting to increase according to information that occasionally gets released from The Federal Police and Border Force.

Some Asian countries like the Phillipines make mostly P2P. Also through unknown partnerships with people in Australia or possibly more upstream within the Asian supply chains, the Mexicans have begun to get sizeable amounts of their P2P into Australia.

I read it in some offical report somewhere. Might have been the annual UN drugs report. I think they estimated that 13% of our market was supplied with Mexican P2P (up from zero a decade ago) and they were rapidly eating into what had been Asian business.

It’s speculated that the Arabs and Lebanese are the local connection but no-one really knows.

 

[cletusSamboy]

The percentage of P2P in the Aussie market is starting to increase according to information that occasionally gets released from The Federal Police and Border Force.

Some Asian countries like the Phillipines make mostly P2P. Also through unknown partnerships with people in Australia or possibly more upstream within the Asian supply chains, the Mexicans have begun to get sizeable amounts of their P2P into Australia.

I read it in some offical report somewhere. Might have been the annual UN drugs report. I think they estimated that 13% of our market was supplied with Mexican P2P (up from zero a decade ago) and they were rapidly eating into what had been Asian business.

It’s speculated that the Arabs and Lebanese are the local connection but no-one really knows.

Does the P2P method result in racemic meth or do they have a process of eliminating the l-meth?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Does the P2P method result in racemic meth or do they have a process of eliminating the l-meth?

P2P produces racemic meth but there are aparently additional steps possible to do an isomer conversion end up almost all d-meth.

That’s in theory. I don’t think I’ve seen any official reports from anywhere in the world that comfirms illicit manufacturers are doing isomer comversions.

However there is data around that shows Mexican meth having 80+ % purity. As far as US Law Enforcement and proaecutions go, ‘purity’ is the proportion of d-meth.

 

[Angus12]

I could be wrong to my knowledge p2p method does result in racemic, but I’ve read some articles claiming they in fact do have a process to eliminate the l- meth. Also claiming that the cartel meth is upwards of 90% pure. Now I am far from an expert but living in Texas and having an abundance of cartel meth around, it’s not that pure. I do understand once it gets into the hands of the middleman, it gets stepped on.

 

[JTemperance]

However there is data around that shows Mexican meth having 80+ % purity. As far as US Law Enforcement and proaecutions go, ‘purity’ is the proportion of d-meth.

Over 93% in 2018*, up from 39% in 2011, when it was mostly pseudo- based (whether domestic or Mexican). Kind of amazing and a little terrifying what they've achieved in such a short time...


*Since it won't let me post the url or hyperlink, the source = forbes.com "not all drugs are created equal"

 

[unodelacosa]

I could be wrong to my knowledge p2p method does result in racemic, but I’ve read some articles claiming they in fact do have a process to eliminate the l- meth. Also claiming that the cartel meth is upwards of 90% pure. Now I am far from an expert but living in Texas and having an abundance of cartel meth around, it’s not that pure. I do understand once it gets into the hands of the middleman, it gets stepped on.

There are a lot of different producers among various factions within gangs/cartels. They have varying skills and scruples, plus law enforcement makes efforts to disrupt the flow of precursors from China into their hands. As a result, new methods and techniques have to be created in a sort of cat-and-mouse game, if you will.

And yes, P-2-P itself is not chiral and once reduced to an amine it results in a racemic product. Differing qualities and stereospecific attractions and repulsions of the two isomers of tartaric acid can be exploited to separate enantiomers at the initial expense of yield. There is a technique by which the remaining unwanted isomer can be reacted and formed into a new racemic mixture, which can again be halved and the process can repeat ad infinitum until the law of diminishing returns start to bother you. It certainly feels a bit tedious considering all the labor you have to put in and compared to the elegance of a simple Birch reduction, or Nagai reduction, of ephedrine to methamphetamine which has the added bonus of producing stereospecifically pure, d-isomer meth only.

There's a similarly amazing one-pot synthesis to trans-4-methylaminorex that site rules prohibit me from explaining. It's worth pointing out here that only the cis-enantiomer is specifically scheduled in the U.S.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Sorry, I got my terminology confused while posting at 4AM after 2 days awake. As far as the US and the UN go purity and potency have different and specific meanings. People (e.g me) frequently confuse them.

Purity = total percentage of methamphetamine in a sample regardless of isomer. So 50 mg of l-iso meth is technically the same purity as 50 mg d-meth or any combination thereof.

Potency = total percentage of the sample which is composed of the d-meth isomer. In testing potency any amount of l-isomer meth in the sample is not counted.

So, it is possible to have situations where one sample is way less pure but still much more potent than an other.

On the subject of P2P produced meth, the end of the regular P2P processes where the final product should only me methamphetamine produce a 50/50 racemic mix of l-meth and d-meth. Technically, if the process was carried out perfectly under ideal condition this could have a Purity=100% but it could only have a maximum potency of 50 %.

What I meant to say in the earlier posts is that although there is plenty of public literature on how to do an isomer conversion and turn l-meth into0 d-meth to increase potency I do not know of any cases where LE has actually found illegal manufacturers using these methods, adding additional steps to the manufacturing process and producing greater volumes of d-meth.

BUT, there is evidence from occasional reports from the authorities and court cases and such that the Mexican meth found in the US is:

1. Of a Purity around 93%. But to a user this number is not super valuable because if it Racemic meth it potentially just means are getting a lot more cleaner l-meth.

2. Of a Potency greater than 50 %. For P2P produced this indicates two possibilities. The first is that the manufacturers have a way to separate the isomers and package up and sell the d-meth. This is questionable, because unless they have a market for pure l-meth they would be wasting half their raw materials and adding costs too the manufacturing for no real gain given low cost of meth in US. Alternatively, they are adding the isomer conversion steps but they are not super efficient meaning that they can get better than 50 % d-meth but not 100 % leading to significant variations in potency between batches.

 

[Angus12]

As a Meth consumer, all I want is consistency. I want to know what I’m getting when I buy a bag. It’s “fingers crossed” as I’m meeting one of multiple plugs. I understand tolerance and appreciate good meth and it’s chemical properties. It sucks when one week I’m smoking and not achieving the “feeling” I’m looking for and then the next week It’s jackpot, so on and so forth. When I get bag of good gear, I make sure I enjoy it. This week is one of those good gear weeks btw. I want to try some of that Aussie gear. Just don’t want to spend those outrageous prices. I have it in my mind that the gear down under us way better then ours. I shouldn’t complain, I just appreciate some good ol Methamphetamines.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I struggle when this question comes up because of the following.

1, When I started shooting ‘speed’ or ‘goey’ in Sydey 30 years ago it came as fairly fine powder that dissolved well although we always heated it.

2. The rush was like euphoric fireworks. It kind of shot up your spine like an electrical charge, everything in your head went ‘bang’, and you’d always get an immediate strong chemical taste in your throat.


3. The high was equal parts physical and mental. You’d have the energy and enthusiasm to party or do whatever for days, but your thought became very clear and sharp and you felt a lot sharpet mentally. Which was good because you’d often talk non-stop for hours. Comedowns were not partocularly harsh and we never had valium or seroquel to help. We didn’t even use weed.

4. A lot of people have said this great stuff - which I would much prefer to meth - was AMPHETAMINE SULFATE. I cetainly rembember it as feeling like a super high octane version of pharmaceutical DEXAMFETAMINE I now take:

5. However, back then people were also often talking about how this stuff was made from PSEUDO. At the time the gocernment was trying to restrict access to pseudo so that made sense.

6. I’ve since learned there is no practical sythesis route from pseudo to Amohetamine Sulfate. If you were cooking with Pseudo you were making meth.

7. Over the next 30 years I took a tonne of drugs. The main stimulant ones were MDMA. I also took SSRI’s and AP’s for years. So I am sure all kinds of neuroplastic changes have reduced my sensitivy to drugs and that I have perma-tolerance to many effects of drugs.

8. BUT, when I first tried meth about 6 years ago and people said “it’s like the goey we used to have” I expected a similar high: But it was chalk and cheese. I loved the meth and thought it was a fun drug, but at the same time I thought it was completely different to what we had been shooting 30 years ago in ways like this:

Modern meth way more euphoric with strong sensual/sexual/bodily element to the euphoria. But euphoria quickly disappears with ongoing use. Old speed never made me extra horney, let alone have 1

Old speed way less moreish and addictive. I would never go higher than a point every 6 hours or so and when the bag was empty and we were broke it wad no great disaster:

I’ve never been able to so ‘brain’ work on midern meth. Once I have it I can’t sit down and read/write serious stuff. On old speed I still got university finished amd held down some interesting jobs.

Logically, if the claim old speed was made with pseudo and was therefore a pre-crystal form of meth you’d think the experiences would be closer.

I’ve also taken a few varieties of what is sold on DNM in Australia as ‘speed’ and it does fuck all for me. It barely elevates my heart rate.

I would love to know what the reality is behind all of this..