Specific tolerance regarding dissociative tolerance (PCE, PCP etc)

[incognition]

Hi, i had the fortune to try a limited closed circle batch of PCEE (It's likely i was the first person to try it in the world) straight from the source which lead me to some questions.

I try all dissociatives in bulk i get my hands on, which ofcouse has led to tolerance issues.
(It's my passion and i'm a high performance citizen, so i just let it be like this and go on )
In the MXE-era i took 300 mg doses and went out for walks like nothing. (MXE=3-meo-2-oxo-PCE)

I can still take 3-MeO-PCP and ketamine without significant tolerance compared with MXE.

I have noticed insane long term tolerance with 2 other compounds besides MXE, the above mentioned PCEE and 2-oxo-PCE, so i wonder, is it possible
there is specific tolerance related to the base molecule, anyone else noticed this?

Cheers

 

[xammy]

When you use dissociatives for long enough, you come to realize that there's more to them than holing, dying over and over again etc. You integrate the experiences and you move on, you begin to see these drugs as tools for self-improvement. Just like you said, you're a high performance citizen.

Regarding 3-MeO-PCP tolerance, I've noticed that when you have that tolerance, this drug starts to open up in a whole new level. You learn, learn and learn so fast that it could even it can get scary. I order in bulk too, ordering just a few doses doesn't make sense to me.

MXE was the first dissociative for me, I think I never got to the same level of tolerance that you because I took breaks. I never got over the limit that 100mg wouldn't hole me.

After several grams of 3-MeO-PCP, 2-3mg still does the trick and it works like it should. I never go high with this chemical again, if I want to hole, I will take ketamine/MXE or other sedative dissociatives. Or I take a psychedelic on 3-MeO-PCP - 3meo potentiates everything.

I have no idea about PCEE and 2-oxo-PCE. I can't answer to your primary question, I'm just writing to reflect.

Permatolerance is a real thing and we have been trying to figure out what is going here when these changes seem to be permanent. After all it's pretty simple, every experience in your life modifies you and you'll never be the same. I don't know how it happens in brain on a physical level but I'm still trying to make sense what this means in the real world. Where I have gotten to my worldview, which relies on synchronicity.

Can you tell me more about PCEE?

 

[Solipsis]

Yes partially: ketamine has other activity besides NMDA antagonism like blocking hyperpolarization channels which is considered to be the reason for it's particular hypnotic-like anaesthetic action (well, when combined with quick NMDA antagonism that is). Most people I hear about have taken plenty of ketamine before they took MXE and get permatolerance, which can be explained by the promiscuous activities of ketamine, all or at least most of which you develop tolerance for I guess.

What I can't really account for is something like 2'-Oxo-PCE which I thought is also anaesthetic because of similar activities as ketamine, so I would have expected more cross-tolerance there.

But if you have experience first with more pure NMDA antagonists but not so much yet with ketamine, then these additional activities of ketamine can still be effective.

Going high may generate a lot of tolerance and ruin it for you, but it seems that is how you partially avoided this. The primary other activities of MXE would be on monoamine transporters.

^ True, permatolerance is strange and real - not quite sure how cognition is perhaps over time rewired to do it's business differently over the glutamatergic system and how something like that could perhaps limit hallucinogenic dissociative effects, although partially dissociatives can probably still mess with your cognition even if you don't get much of a trip anymore.

I also wonder what kind of dissociation (there are lots of kinds!) may be required for emergent experiences. It seems easier to completely blank out on something like MK-801, diphenidine or its analogues or also PCP type compounds, than to keep having proper immersive / breakthrough K-holes.

Whatever you do, I recommend that you do not ruin it for yourself like many of us have, and try to not have too frequent hole-experiences. Eventually you will stop having the most interesting types of dissociative experiences, most likely, especially if you push it to compensate for starting tolerance. I think you know what I mean from the 300 mg MXE.

What is the formula of PCEE?

 

[xammy]

^ I noticed that messing with these PCP analogs I've really caused myself some kind of "voluntary psychosis" - just like Lilly spoke about "voluntary death" or was it Karl Jansen in "Ketamine and Near-Death Experiences"?

Anyway these experiences have shown me the real meaning of "nothing is real". Which is scary as hell when you can't trust your own senses. Nothing is real. You have to figure out what is real. When you end up to the same conclusion over and over again, that nothing is real.

 

[Solipsis]

Why would it matter? The more important thing is that your conscious experience is coherent and consistent enough with the physical reality to function.
Nothing being real, the perspective is what it all depends on, though there is still something coherent (laws of nature / physics) and empirical about the world. There will always be some distance to it for us, but it should be a relief that it's there.
You are better off focusing on "everything is relative" than taking "nothing is real" too far.

Maybe you are referring to ontological insecurity which is a hallmark of psychosis? Not being sure if you exist independently or not? Aside from questions like "is our world a simulation?" with again the answer being that it doesn't necessarily matter, for all intents and purposes "I think therefore I am" is enough. Letting your behavior, identity etc be influences by existential questions is ultimately just as unnecessary as concluding from the idea that we don't have free will, that it doesn't matter what you do and you might as well do whatever. That's just a fallacy.

 

[incognition]

Thank you for the input, even the general reflections.. I dont mind discussing anything related to dissociatives.. But I call them discoassistiatives when i go out and party.
Solipsis : N-ethoxyethyl-phenylcyclohexylamine
In general i can say it resembled 2-oxo-PCE in the general feeling, more "narcotic" than the PCP's imo. Not very potent, which lead it to be hard on the nose. I'd say 3-meo-PCP might be equally hard on the nose, but you dont need to shove up that much in that case. It was the HCl-salt.
Tolerance rose quickly. I went out to pick my chemist friend a rose in the garden and handed it over with a sad face saying "tolerance rose". It was fun in that moment.

 

[Solipsis]

Hehe

Interesting, thanks hadn't heard of that one before. Seems way too long as an N-substitution, the potency starts dropping at or after N-propyl. What you call PCEE is PCEEA mentioned here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phencyclamine

Maybe the methoxyethyl is more potent.. I wonder if that ether oxygen is able to interact in ways similar to the 2'-oxo-PCE carbonyl.
Is there some sort of fanclub for these analogues in Germany, it was also mentioned on that page

 

[xammy]

Why would it matter? The more important thing is that your conscious experience is coherent and consistent enough with the physical reality to function.
Nothing being real, the perspective is what it all depends on, though there is still something coherent (laws of nature / physics) and empirical about the world. There will always be some distance to it for us, but it should be a relief that it's there.
You are better off focusing on "everything is relative" than taking "nothing is real" too far.

Maybe you are referring to ontological insecurity which is a hallmark of psychosis? Not being sure if you exist independently or not? Aside from questions like "is our world a simulation?" with again the answer being that it doesn't necessarily matter, for all intents and purposes "I think therefore I am" is enough. Letting your behavior, identity etc be influences by existential questions is ultimately just as unnecessary as concluding from the idea that we don't have free will, that it doesn't matter what you do and you might as well do whatever. That's just a fallacy.

Yeah it doesn't matter, the thing is nothing matters. You have to create the matter and meaning of your life yourself. That's what I am doing nowadays. Every day.

I am sure that I exist in some way, that is enough to enjoy this journey. I am focusing on the positives, doing the best I can to help myself and then others. Nothing gives me more joy than seeing people having fun, laugh, smile. Its contagious. Nothing gives me more happiness than making my girlfriend happy, it's one of the most euphoric feelings one can imagine. Stuff like that. Working hard for something, achieving it and working more.

 

[incognition]

Thanks solipsis. I'm actually not from Germany - more up north, but the origin of it is correct

Hmm, maybe you should go easy on the stimulant dissos xammy. For me reality is one persistent and well defined motherfucker. Even though i snorted multiples of the amount 3-meo you did. I have just gotten slightly manic after binges without noticing it myself.. the only drug that induced an abnormal "baseline" mental state without me realizing it. The best and the worst drug in the world

Cheers

 

[xammy]

Thanks solipsis. I'm actually not from Germany - more up north, but the origin of it is correct

Hmm, maybe you should go easy on the stimulant dissos xammy. For me reality is one persistent and well defined motherfucker. Even though i snorted multiples of the amount 3-meo you did. I have just gotten slightly manic after binges without noticing it myself.. the only drug that induced an abnormal "baseline" mental state without me realizing it. The best and the worst drug in the world

Cheers

Indeed, the mania is the effect I'm trying to achieve. It just gets so intense that you have to be very careful. That's why you often stop and reflect before you act. Mania is not a toy.

 

[incognition]

Not sure if appropriate to post like this in this chat manner, but i got package with computer cables right now here and my friend had inserted a package of 3-MeO-PCP. And wow, that substance is still doing it even if we just consumed gram amounts of this PCEE/PCEEA molecule.. And i've had it in my my mind before, but now i say it : Solipsis for president.

 

[incognition]

This is me :