softening the second half (comedown) of an lsd trip...also Al-LAd?

[al-laddin]

Ok so for years I thought it was just me or it was the "comedown", but none the less after about the 5 hour mark of an L trip it seems to get sort of "wierd". The first portion is what I would call magical and cosmic, majestically beautiful! But after the peak it seems to feel a bit anxious, overstimulated and "empty". Negative thoughts begin to creep in and generally I just get tires of being on L. Its not horrific or anything but the headspace isn't fun anymore...a bit depressing even.

So within the last year, I have found that this phenomena has been researched and studied. Nichols actually sais that this is a result of L's effect on dopamine recpeters in the latter half of the experience? So my question is there a way to dampen this effect? No cannabis for me as it seems to make it worse for me and magnifies this effect 10x. I hear of people taking benzos for the comedown is this an option to dampin this bothersome side effect?


Also within the last year I have researched al-lad a bit and found it this negative side effect to be non-existent? Is that what could be missing from al-lads shorter duration? Doe sit simply cut off before the dopaminergic effects take place? Or are they simply not as noticeable because the whole experience is "shrunkin" ino about 6/7 hours and this dopaminergic effect doesn't drag until you pass out, like with L?

 

[Ismene]

I'm with you al-laddin - the last 10 hours of LSD post-peak when you can't get to sleep are complete shite and do put me off it as a drug. Al-lad isn't as bad as LSD but there is a residual "can't get to sleep" annoying hangover even with al-lad but it doesn't last as long.

 

[perpetualdawn]

A small amount of booze around the point your talking about helps soften it. A nice hoppy beer, or a single malt are my prefs. if I feel the need to soften the edges. There no use trying to sleep though until at least 10h have passed tho.

 

[al-laddin]

Perpetual! I pretty much drink as needed throughout my LSD experiences, however, there comes a point where the acid completely overwhelms the booze....and what your left with is a FULLY TRIPPING uncoordinated stumbling fuck! (me) HAH....but yeah definitely booze helps a bit but Im seeking something a bit more obscure ....perhaps something I havnt been aware of that's been under my nose all this time.

Yes, Ismene, this is what excites me about AL....the fact that I don't have to commit like I did with acid.

 

[kingme]

indeed al-lad does seem to end rather abruptly but i wouldnt go so far as to generalize on what is exactly happening receptor-wise.

for me, the lsd experience does "come down" towards the end, but i wouldnt call it being wired or anything of the sort. it is more or less a comedown that i associate with most psychedelics, some more than others, and seems to me to be linked with the overall duration of the experience and class of substance. for instance, DOC gives a longer comedown with a more wired feeling, while mushrooms come down gentler, and sleep is possible right after the end of the main phase...

have you tried changing the setting? different music?
perhaps a little food or a drink? im usually drained of energy and quite hungry towards of a trip and a little food puts me in a good mood too...
and also, try some sex on the comedown, it still feels wonderful without the oddness that may come about in the main stage of the trip

 

[theacidtest]

I actually really enjoy the second phase of LSD trips. I find this is when conversation is easier and absolutely hilarious. Visuals tend to still be present but it feels as if I've adjusted to the "LSD world" so to speak.

 

[al-laddin]

^ Kingme, actually Nichols discusses this in a lecture and I believe theres awell known study on how LSD is unique to other psychedleics in effecting dopamine receptors later in the experience. I wish I could find the video. Its pretty dry but its informative and it matches up to what Ive been experiencing. Ive done a lot of acid in my day and the latter portion is quite taxing on my nervous system. I don't have much experience with phens but no other psychedelic I have ever done has left me with such annoying lingering effects, in fact quite the opposite, actually. I get a nice afterglow from most, especially mushrooms.

 

[perpetualdawn]

^^ I like the second phase too, it's the part where it's easy to interact with the world, but you still have acid super powers. The main thing is having something to do at that point. LSD isn't very good for sitting around twiddling your thumbs I find.

Worth noting that booze counteracts the psychedelic nature of the trip, as I'm sure benzos do too (never tried but that's what they say). I always discourage people from drinking on acid, because it's kind of a waste, but often find myself drinking a bit in moderation towards the end anyways.

there comes a point where the acid completely overwhelms the booze....and what your left with is a FULLY TRIPPING uncoordinated stumbling fuck!

Yeah that's true. Acid kind of cuts through the booze in terms of keeping you mentally alert and feeling like you're in control, but then your body, coordination and judgement is just as drunk as you would be otherwise. Weird combo if you drink too much. Pretty messy.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I second beer on the comedown. Ever since I started drinking beer and just watchin some It's Always Sunny or similar show at the end of LSD trips, they've been a lot more mellow and relaxing.

 

[jason7]

I actually find the first part of a trip the worst. The later parts are a lot smoother. I did 750 mcg recently and I actually started feeling it about 10 minutes after I took it. I could tell I was going to get seriously smote, and sure enough I did. My body felt really weird, like I was some kind of freakish creature, like a caveman or something, I don't know. Something that was disturbing was that at first I was very thirsty and drinking lots of water but I couldn't urinate. I was just building up more and more water in my body and I was getting very concered about not being able to get any of it out. I had to take a shower to get myself to wizz, and even then it wasn't much. But then later all I could do was wizz like every 10 minutes. All that built up water was coming out.

And then in the later stages I could sense things far away from my body, like I could sense the whole house and part of the neighborhood outside. Then I watched some YouTube music videos and they seemed very dramatic. I watched the BeeGees Live One For Australia concert and it seemed really great even though it was just the BeeGees. Then I watched Nightwish at Wacken 2013 and it was the most dramatic thing ever. You know how at the beginning of a concert the crowd is making all kinds of crowd noises in anticipation, well that was more intense than normal. Then they started playing and it was sending chills down my spine. That's a good video to watch on acid btw.

Sadly, I couldn't get to sleep most of the night so I was very tired the next day. That's the last time I'm taking 750 mics. That was too severe. I don't like being a creature and not being able to wizz, and I also don't like wizzing all the time later. And I sure don't like staying up all night.

 

[St3ve]

^ Kingme, actually Nichols discusses this in a lecture and I believe theres awell known study on how LSD is unique to other psychedleics in effecting dopamine receptors later in the experience. I wish I could find the video. Its pretty dry but its informative and it matches up to what Ive been experiencing. Ive done a lot of acid in my day and the latter portion is quite taxing on my nervous system. I don't have much experience with phens but no other psychedelic I have ever done has left me with such annoying lingering effects, in fact quite the opposite, actually. I get a nice afterglow from most, especially mushrooms.

It's in this lecture that he talks about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJtdZUy1LYE it's pretty interesting throughout, but the thing you are talking about is around 45 mins into or so if I remember correctly...

As for combatting those after effects I find it helps to have someone around (preferably also tripping) to chat with... The first 4 hours on acid I'm quite happy to wander of by myself and enjoy my trip. Afterwards it's easier to have people to talk to. We usually started smoking lots of weed and listening to soothing music.

At the very end bit (8hrs+ into it) I like to eat some simply foods like a slice of bread or an apple. Eating a bit seems to make me feel better then, as does having perhaps a beer or two. What I've never tried, but think would work extremely well to smooth the comedown of an acid trip, would be to take a mild dose of kratom (3g or so for someone with no tolerance).

 

[al-laddin]

Ewwwww nightwish???? If you want a real experience try NIGHTBRINGER.....sorry im a bit bias and prefer orthodox traditional black metal. Anyway, interesting story....how do you know it was 750 mics, do you know your source? Ive done between 5-700 mics and I was completetly incapable of the english language, movement, linear thought and ended up with four nightmarish years of PTSD and HPPD. I stick to around 100ug these and I get PLENTY high and nice visuals.

EDIT:

Hey steve yes thats the one! Nichols discusses the dopamine effect in the latter half and how MOST people do find it dysphoric and uncomfortable....

By the way have any of you guys tried LSA....refined pure LSA. Im wondering if it has this effect because I recenty believe to have taken what my peers and I suspect is LSA. I knw I know! LSA is a crappy pseudo - high due to cyanide and other nasties in the seeds. And I would know if I had LSA because it would be a nasty paste and you would have to eat alot of it to get any effect (alot more than LSD)....


Actually this is NOT true. You only need about .5 to 1.0 mg to have an experience and refined LSA does not have the nasty effects that eating a ton of seeds does. Its actually a pure psychedelic experience without the nasty toxic effects. Anyway if anyone can chime in about whether it has this "latter-half effect " would be interting.

 

[jason7]

Ewwwww nightwish???? If you want a real experience try NIGHTBRINGER.....sorry im a bit bias and prefer true black metal. Anyway, interesting story....how do you know it was 750 mics, do you know your source? Ive done between 5-700 mics and I was completetly incapable of the english language, movement, linear thought and ended up with four nightmarish years of PTSD and HPPD. I stick to around 100ug these and I get PLENTY high and nice visuals and

True, Nightwish are a little ewwy sometimes, but it's one of the few bands I like to listen to. I don't listen to them much now but I did heavily when I first found them. Their songs can be very dramatic sounding. I'll check out Nightbringer, hadn't heard of them before. I did listen to Accept at Wacken 2014 after Nightwish. I wanted something a bit more gutteral after the Bee Gees and Nightwish. The current version of Accept is actually pretty good.

Regarding how I knew it was 750 mics, I can't be sure but that's what they were advertised as and I did try half a hit at first just to see if they were potent enough to feel at that low a dose and I did get significant effects. People on the forums where the vendor sells say good things about him and said his blotters were comparable to another vendor's Swiss orange microdots which were either 200 or 250, I can't recall right now. I took three blotters and it had to be a pretty high dose for me to feel it in 10 minutes. I admit that 750 mics should have been outrageously potent. Maybe they're really like half what they're advertised at but that would still be a hefty dose. It was WoW and there's only one guy who sells WoW 250s on the darknet that I know of so you can probably figure out who it is. He's Canadian.

Edit; I listened to Hellbringer and it's pretty good. Very much like Slayer but the vocalist sounds more like Lemmy from Motorhead.

 

[al-laddin]

Ill check out hellbringer....sounds more up my alley....So from reading your posts on BL and another forum LSD agrees with you but the analogues hate your body? That sucks man. I felt LSZ and AL were equally benign physically.

Nightbringer is a US ritualistic black metal band....extremely eerie , dark, horrifying and atmospheric/dramatic without keyboards or synths or cheesy operatic vocals. They do this while retaining an "important" and "serious" esoteric sound....like an old occult grimoire that has been buried in the desert for thousand years but put to a soundtrack. This type of black metal is totally psychedelic on its own....add some lsd and its pairs like pink Floyd would. The difference is that it can take you into some creepy headspaces....actually so can Floyd.....those clocks kinda creep me out on acid.

Some Canadian bands that I like are Blasphemy (B.C.), Revenge and Godless North. They however are more raw and straightforward...with almost a "punk" aggressiveness. Not quite as trippy as nightbringer

 

[jason7]

Ill check out hellbringer....sounds more up my alley....So from reading your posts on BL and another forum LSD agrees with you but the analogues hate your body? That sucks man. I felt LSZ and AL were equally benign physically.

Nightbringer is a US ritualistic black metal band....extremely eerie , dark, horrifying and atmospheric/dramatic without keyboards or synths or cheesy operatic vocals. They do this while retaining an "important" and "serious" esoteric sound....like an old occult grimoire that has been buried in the desert for thousand years but put to a soundtrack. This type of black metal is totally psychedelic on its own....add some lsd and its pairs like pink Floyd would. The difference is that it can take you into some creepy headspaces....actually so can Floyd.....those clocks kinda creep me out on acid. I won't even listen to Ghost BC on acid, and that's very mellow music. Unfortunately, it's very mellow SATAN music.

Some Canadian bands that I like are Blasphemy (B.C.), Revenge and Godless North. They however are more raw and straightforward...with almost a "punk" aggressiveness. Not quite as trippy as nightbringer

Yup, you're right. When I took the 750 mics of acid I had no nausea at all and only mild tremors but LSZ always causes some nausea and AL-LAD always causes pretty severe tremors and also general discomfort with more than 150. I think it really was 750 mics or very close to it because I took 450 mics of LSZ and it was nowhere near as strong. 300 of AL-LAD was pretty strong though, but not as strong as the acid. The AL-LAD took a good hour to hit while the acid came on very much faster. Within half an hour I was feeling quite strong effects. It's possible it was less but it would not surprise me at all if it really was 750. I've never gotten that high that fast before with acid, and I usually took 4 or 5 hits. I've even taken 6 hits before. Just 3 hits of this was the strongest effects I've ever experienced. I could tell it was very clean too.

Regarding the Hellbringer. I used to like that sort of music, like Slayer and Venom, but I just got tired of the genre. Once I did a bunch of acid and listened to Slayer's Reigning Blood album and I had a bad trip where I thought Satan was trying to get to me through the music. Not a great idea to play that kind of music on acid. Might be okay for some but for me it's just begging for a bad trip involving Satan. The Bee Gees can't possibly invoke a Satanic bad trip. Sure, people may think I'm hokey listening to the Bee Gees on acid, but it makes for a nice mellow trip, and that's all I want. I've had too many baddies to want to tempt fate again. Hellbringer is right out I'm afraid.

 

[Clocktower]

Do you eat during your trip? I used to fast during entire LSD trips, but later I found comedowns to be much easier if I ate something.

 

[al-laddin]

^^^ No I don't that would be interesting but Im absolutely disgusted by food on acid! blech

 

[Lackasham]

I find the comedown to be an essential part of my trip. A time to bring my trip full circle in a sense. During the peak it's hard to make sense of everything at once but during the comedown I can tie up the loose ends encountered during the peak

 

[Jesusgreen]

GABAergics dampen dopaminergic activity - so for example benzodiazepines, alcohol, GHB/GBL/BDO, barbiturates, methaqualone (and other qualones), and related drugs. The easiest of those to get your hands on would probably be alcohol or benzodiazepines. Just don't overdo it, 1-2 beers or 5-10mg diazepam is great for relaxing a slightly unsettling/nervous tail end of a trip, but add a little more and you'll dull down the trip too much or just get too tired to enjoy it.

Personally I find it more valuable to ride it out - the most difficult and uncomfortable trips/parts of trips tend to be the most rewarding in terms of what you can gain for them. Use that nervous energy to write down your thoughts on something that's been on your mind lately, or to work on something you've been wanting to create for a while - or just do some drawing, or some exercise. That energy can go a long way.

 

[al-laddin]

Good advice Jesus, thanks....