social interpersonal violence - slappin bitches

[nuttynutskin]

Isn't the op supposedly following Buddhism or something? Afaik Buddhists don't go around beating people with baseball bats. lol

 

[ForEverAfter]

What I don't get is why people (OP included) believe that violence is productive towards personal development.
I'm a fairly open minded person. I'll happily have a discussion about the contributions slavery made to modern society.
But, what, do some people deserve to be enslaved? Do some people deserve to be raped? Or, is it all about the baseball bat?

I think you're treading on thin ice.
Not because of what you've done.
But, because of how you're approaching this thread.

You need to admit that what you did was wrong and that you shouldn't have done it.
You're kind of going back and forth on that.

The whole "I won't do it again, but it needed to be done," attitude...
It isn't going to help you.

It didn't need to be done. He didn't need a beating.
I think, maybe, you can't admit what you did because you (still) love him?

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what any adult does (male or female).
They might deserve a beating (that's debatable). But, you shouldn't do it.
Because it doesn't do any good...

The same goes for parenting.
It's not going to help your child to beat them.
People can learn without violence.
Hurting people isn't sustainable.

In the end, they're going to strike back.
And if they don't, well, they're slaves.
So, either way, it isn't good.

There are always better ways to deal with any situation.

And - by "better" - I don't mean morally superior.
I mean: there are more efficient ways to influence / rehabilitate people.

...

Why assume that beating someone is the only way to deal with them?

 

[herbavore]

You've hit the nail squarely on the head with that post ForEverAfter.

Tantric, I have always found the word 'deserve' and the myriad concepts behind it, to be one of the most dangerous words in the human
language.

P.S. Love Cowboy Junkies--thanks for the song!

 

[tantric]

i KNOW it was wrong - the story revolves around being a bad buddhist.

You need to admit that what you did was wrong and that you shouldn't have done it.
You're kind of going back and forth on that.

so the right thing to do is to let this asshat call the cops on me and get me locked up? he'd already called the police, i had no idea what he said, but i knew he'd called them. i also knew that he wanted me in jail - so i couldn't leave him. and i was right about that - he had already called, i got the report later. this is a person i'd driven 50mi to rescue from an ER, trying to pull some shit (i always see through lies and ploys, but his shit was sloppy) to get me locked up. i panicked. i know i did something wrong BUT I HAD TO DO IT. it was a breaking point - do or die. the fucked up part is how all the stories i'd heard in prison, the shit i'd seen, when it came, i knew exactly what to do. it scared me - i hadn't realized how deeply i'd internalized that shit.

yes, wrong. yes, lots of justification, some people just need a whoopin', etc but it was ME that did this. i'm changed by it.

 

[tantric]

this is my retrospect song: Soul Position, the Jerry Springer Episode

 

[jammin83]

Tantric, you basically have two options. You lay down institutionalization or you don't. The real world doesn't operate like it does in prison. The people that don't lay that shit down are the people that go in and out their whole life. You're a lot smarter than you are acting. Violence never solves anything. If someone wants to get you locked up then find better friends. Very few situations are do or die unless you are hanging with the wrong crowd. Peace brother.

 

[tantric]

i challenge you to logically support the statement: violence never solves anything. as far as i know, quiet the opposite, like how the nuclear holocaust unleashed on hiroshima and nagasaki solved the pacific theater of WWII. in my history books, that was considered the best option, as opposed to the brutal invasion and occupation of the japanese home islands. just an example.

i know the free world doesn't operate like prison. in prison, you don't lie to a person's face. you don't cheat people, you are NEVER rude to strangers. you stay out of other people's lives and they stay out of your space. you know who your friends are - these are the people who would do time for you, cover for your, take a beating for your, feed you when you have nothing. they won't betray you because they know that if they do, at the least painful violence will happen to them. so they don't. people in the free world don't know how to behave like civilized men - the work on the assumption that there are never consequences for their social fuck ups and attacks, because there aren't.

i've lost count of how many times i've been arrested. background: in the 90's i took the war on drugs (which is a war of terror and oppression conducted by the government against its own citizens) personally and decided to do something about it. i taught myself chemistry, got the equipment and set up an MDA lab....only i gave the shit away, calling drug dealers 'profiteers'. i did about a month for that til i made bail and got off on an invalid search warrant. so yeah, career criminal cum revolutionary. the statistics say i'll die in jail, from violence or homeless. i've read the papers. i'm okay with it. i'd rather not, of course, but this is life.

i thought i made it very clear that i'm done with shitheads like that guy, and that lifestyle in general. i got over my nihilism. this is what shocked me out of - i got a real taste of what it was like, and i didn't fucking like it. i'm a FARMER now, i grow squash for yuppies, for pete's sake. but that shit changed me. i'm trying to integrate it. on the other hand, i sleep alone now and have no friends, and i cannot sustain myself like this.

 

[jammin83]

Look man, I'm not here to debate with you about the virtues of violence. You and I both know that your hiroshima analogy doesn't hold up. I'm not sure you can say that the A bombs solved much of anything. Ended the war maybe, but the children born with three arms and eight eyes to this day don't see what happened as a solution. That's not what we are really talking about here anyway. I would be lying to you if I told you that I have never benefited from an ass whopping but part of being an adult is moving past that. In a civilized world, its just plain uncalled for.

I don't know why some people are so hung up on how things were better in prison. Sure people respect each other, or fear each other rather, but don't act like its some place where none of that shit happens. There can be some good people in there, but everything about is totally fucked. People can talk shit to you because people should be able to talk shit to each other without being stabbed. You should never let people give that type of power over to you. People can say 'fuck you bitch' to my face and I would laugh at them. It doesn't matter to me how other people talk to me. Sure, I get more upset than the average person but I am not about to risk my freedom over it. You should know that you going back to prison is a choice that you make. You are not condemned to live a life like that. If you do, you should at least be mindful that you are making a choice. After a certain point it is no longer just a mistake. It isn't that hard to not commit felonies unless you choose to do so. Sure, drugs are illegal and everything besides pot is a felony, but it isn't that hard to not get busted for drugs if you choose to partake anymore. Be smart about what you are doing and you stay out of jail.

I know that type of experience changes people. I know it can be hard to readjust. We will always have to be making adjustments. We can have a good life, a fulfilled life, we can find people to love and to connect with but we have to leave our past at the door. Don't let that shit control you. If you do, you are going to be eternally unhappy. Maybe life isn't all about happiness, but it sure will feel good when I experience it. Let it go and move on. Focus on improving yourself and recovering. Focus on giving up the fight. I know things can get hard but keep on pushing and you will find what you are looking for.

Cheers man, be well.

 

[spacejunk]

This is a total tangent, but the narrative that the atomic bombs dropped on Japan ended the second world war is still hotly disputed by historians.
Relying on this analogy to support some kind of 'might makes right' philosophy is shaky ground to stand on.

 

[ForEverAfter]

^ Not to mention that (nuclear) war is quite different from normal social engagements.

Trying to argue that violence is personally productive to the individual, based on Hiroshima is ignorant.
It's like arguing that torturing children is an effective method of parenting, because it has shown to be an effective way of getting information out of terror suspects.

And, yeah, we try to convince ourselves that bombing hundreds of thousands of innocent people was the only solution.
But, how do we know? (We don't have anything to compare it to.)

If it was Melbourne that was bombed, I sure as fuck wouldn't be arguing that it had to be done.
(Unless, I was the one who pulled the trigger... so to speak.)

Nobody around here seems to care much about the victims of Hiroshima / Nagasaki.
Probably because they weren't white. (Go figure?)

 

[spacejunk]

^ Not to mention that (nuclear) war is quite different from normal social engagements.

Quite...!